Is the actual rotation the worst in the last 10 Y?

[iortiz]

Did they see him throw in the off season? I don't know what made them think he would rediscover the lost velocity.

 

They probably saw something, but it's time to cut the cancer. He's a blank check.

[Elktonnick]

Did they see him throw in the off season? I don't know what made them think he would rediscover the lost velocity.

One certainly has to wonder. His delivery looks terrible. A guy that big and that young (he is only 30 )should have a fastball in the low 90's to be a starter,IMHO

[a700hitter]

I' m glad that we didn't make a big play for Strasburg. It looks like he is probably injured. He has had 2 very abbreviated starts in a row, and tonight he gave uova bunch of runs.

[Bellhorn04]

I had little hopes in Masterson, unfortunately He is done. He has to go to the pen or something. We do not need to wait until June to figure it out. He is killing this team.

 

Agreed.

[sk7326]

One certainly has to wonder. His delivery looks terrible. A guy that big and that young (he is only 30 )should have a fastball in the low 90's to be a starter,IMHO

 

they saw he seemed healthy - it was a low level commitment. Clearly there is something wrong - I imagine Wright will be taking that turn next. Perhaps one of the 3 Pawtucket guys will be in on a more permanent basis.

[a700hitter]

they saw he seemed healthy - it was a low level commitment. Clearly there is something wrong - I imagine Wright will be taking that turn next. Perhaps one of the 3 Pawtucket guys will be in on a more permanent basis.

 

Do you remember if he auditioned for teams in the off season?

[Elktonnick]

they saw he seemed healthy - it was a low level commitment. Clearly there is something wrong - I imagine Wright will be taking that turn next. Perhaps one of the 3 Pawtucket guys will be in on a more permanent basis.

 

9 million for one year would get a lot more in the pen than Masterson. I agreed with the signing at the time. After seeing his delivery, overall mechanics, lack of command and velocity, however, I can see why Nieves got fired if he had any input into the Masterson evaluation. BTW that in no way lets Farrell and Cherrington off the hook. I agree with the Herald article which says Masterson has to go somewhere to "reinvent" himself if he wishes to play in the big leagues.

[a700hitter]

9 million for one year would get a lot more in the pen than Masterson. I agreed with the signing at the time. After seeing his delivery, overall mechanics, lack of command and velocity, however, I can see why Nieves got fired if he had any input into the Masterson evaluation. BTW that in no way lets Farrell and Cherrington off the hook. I agree with the Herald article which says Masterson has to go somewhere to "reinvent" himself if he wishes to play in the big leagues.

His next stop may be the Independent League.

[Palodios]

Masterson was a good signing at the time because we assumed there was one more arm coming. He was not the last piece of the puzzle, and based on what we've seen, I have no idea why the FO thought he would be.

[sk7326]

9 million for one year would get a lot more in the pen than Masterson. I agreed with the signing at the time. After seeing his delivery, overall mechanics, lack of command and velocity, however, I can see why Nieves got fired if he had any input into the Masterson evaluation. BTW that in no way lets Farrell and Cherrington off the hook. I agree with the Herald article which says Masterson has to go somewhere to "reinvent" himself if he wishes to play in the big leagues.

 

9 million for 1 year of a starter in 2015 (in Boston particular) is basically nothing ... I always suspected he'd have to get to the bullpen just because his horrid splits are managed better there and his stuff would play up. But I am not sure his velocity plays up sufficiently now.

 

I am sure teams worked him out - although in the offseason of a bad injury year, players can always be "on their way back". Team look at the medicals and take a guess. Clearly when the answer is a 1-year deal at 1/2 his normal market value - it means the medicals said "calculated risk".

 

I don't mind taking a chance on him - as long as they are smart enough to pull out now that the evidence is mounting that he is done.

[SoxnCycles]

I don't know if Masterson really has a physical issue, but it does sound like Farrel is about ready to pull him out of the rotation.

 

A short rest, followed by a lengthy "rehab" in Pawtucket might help.

If not he's out.

 

It's too bad. I like the kid.

[cp176]

Masterson was a good signing at the time because we assumed there was one more arm coming. He was not the last piece of the puzzle, and based on what we've seen, I have no idea why the FO thought he would be.

 

Pal - really? What puzzle? It seemed like a good signing to us because we have faith in the people entrusted with the job of evaluating talent and making appropriate decisions. We signed a very sold middle of the rotation guy in Porcello. The Miley signing may work out. 4 or 5 guy at best. He probably should but probably won't wind up in the bullpen. I think that they are stuck basically right now with the moves that they made and did not make. We can all hope for the best.

[Kimmi]

Masterson has had a couple of really bad outings, but he pitched decently in 4 of his starts. He has by no means been great, but I don't think he's been as overall bad as some are making him out to be.

[a700hitter]

Masterson has had a couple of really bad outings, but he pitched decently in 4 of his starts. He has by no means been great, but I don't think he's been as overall bad as some are making him out to be.

 

He serving up slop. The fact that he has had some competitive outings has been pure luck

[SoxHop]

Masterson has had a couple of really bad outings, but he pitched decently in 4 of his starts. He has by no means been great, but I don't think he's been as overall bad as some are making him out to be.

 

He hasn't been all that bad. In fact up until the last couple of starts I thought we might have something there even with his 89 mph fastball.

 

But his stuff is looking real bad. Bad........ SO BAD........

 

He's shot putting the ball to the mound almost.

 

Get the strength coach and physician to work with him. Until he can hit 91 consistently, I'd rather see a knuckle baller.

[Elktonnick]

He hasn't been all that bad. In fact up until the last couple of starts I thought we might have something there even with his 89 mph fastball.

 

But his stuff is looking real bad. Bad........ SO BAD........

 

He's shot putting the ball to the mound almost.

 

Get the strength coach and physician to work with him. Until he can hit 91 consistently, I'd rather see a knuckle baller.

 

While strength and conditioning may play some role, I suspect the Sox think it is more about his delivery and mechanics, The Herald article alluded to it as well as Farrell himself made some reference to delivery issues. These are issues that they always worry about with Buchholtz (besides his mental state) When Buchholtz's mechanics get a bit out of sorts one see the effect. I suspect the same is true with Masterson. They aren't happy with Masterson's delivery and Nieves among other things was either unwilling or unable to get him to change. This is my take from everything I've read or heard over the last couple of days.

[a700hitter]

Masterson to hit the phantom DL. He had to be taken out of the rotation. He has nothing. Knuckleballer Steven Wright to take his next start.

 

Another FO reactionary move to appease the rabid fanbase. LOL!!!

 

Reports: Justin Masterson to hit the DL

 

Justin Masterson will likely hit the disabled list, according to multiple media reports.

By Braden Campbell

Boston.com Staff | 05.13.15 | 3:17 PM

 

Struggling starting pitcher Justin Masterson (2-2) is likely to hit the disabled list with arm fatigue, according to media reports. The team has yet to announce the move officially.

 

Masterson was hammered by the Oakland Athletics on Tuesday night, allowing six earned runs on six hits and a walk in 2 1/3 innings. He’s totaled just 6 2/3 innings over his past two starts, giving up 10 runs on 13 hits with seven walks and two strikeouts.

 

According to The Boston Globe’s Peter Abraham, knuckleballer Steven Wright is likely to take Masterson’s next scheduled start on Sunday, with Robbie Ross Jr. a candidate to return from Triple-A Pawtucket once the team places Masterson on the DL.

 

The right-hander is not pleased with his trip to the DL, Abraham said.

 

Masterson said he was not happy with the decision by the #RedSox. But acknowledged the last two starts were different.

 

— Pete Abraham (@PeteAbe) May 13, 2015

 

Masterson has a 6.37 ERA over seven starts this season. Ross, whom the Sox acquired from the Texas Rangers for Anthony Ranaudo in January, has a 6.17 ERA in thirteen relief appearances so far. He started 12 games last year in Texas, but has not started for Boston.

Edited May 14, 2015 by a700hitter

[cp176]

Masterson to hit the phantom DL. He had to be taken out of the rotation. He has nothing. Knuckleballer Steven Wright to take his next start.

 

Another FO reactionary move to appease the rabid fanbase. LOL!!!

 

Awesome power we fans have. I'm thinking that Masterson went kicking and screaming but some decision had to be made. I hope that things work out but I think the moves are just beginning.

[Palodios]

Masterson supposedly not happy. Oh yeah ? We aren't happy either. If you embarrass yourself on the mound it happens.

[Spudboy]

Masterson has $9.5 Million reasons that he should be happy.

 

He has been just about useless and probably will not contribute significantly this season.

[Kimmi]

Outside of Porcello, the starters' current ERAs are roughly 2 runs higher than their career ERAs. Their current ERAs are also significantly higher than their most recent 3 year averages, 2 year averages, and last year's ERAs. In other words, we are talking about career worst ERAs, by substantial margins, for 4 of our 5 starters. That is enigmatic, especially considering their FIPs and xFIPs. It has to get better.

 

Some of you are saying that you saw this coming before the season started, but you couldn't have foreseen all of them to be underperforming to the extent that they are underperforming. Some of you agree that it will get better, but not enough for this team to contend. If these guys were pitching at their career levels, or at last year's level, as I'm sure the FO was banking on, the picture would look a lot different.

[cp176]

Outside of Porcello, the starters' current ERAs are roughly 2 runs higher than their career ERAs. Their current ERAs are also significantly higher than their most recent 3 year averages, 2 year averages, and last year's ERAs. In other words, we are talking about career worst ERAs, by substantial margins, for 4 of our 5 starters. That is enigmatic, especially considering their FIPs and xFIPs. It has to get better.

 

Some of you are saying that you saw this coming before the season started, but you couldn't have foreseen all of them to be underperforming to the extent that they are underperforming. Some of you agree that it will get better, but not enough for this team to contend. If these guys were pitching at their career levels, or at last year's level, as I'm sure the FO was banking on, the picture would look a lot different.

 

No one can disagree with what you have said here with respect to the statistical analysis. I think that most people certainly felt that a big expenditure in quality pitching did not happen. The people in charge felt that they had done enough. Projecting that things have to get better is just that - a projection. I certainly hope that you are right but at this point in time with over 20% of the season complete, did any statistical analysis project that the pitching would be this bad? I know that you are thinking that because of that things must improve. I hope that you are right but the fact remains that they might not. Which will improve sooner, the hitting or the pitching? My guess - the pitching moves are just beginning. For the record, I had no predictions with respect to this pitching staff - starters as well as bullpen. I bought and actually am still buying the positive plan. If it doesn't work out, changes I am sure will be made. The people in charge of putting the team together have to be accountable or there will have to be a lot more promotional events at the Fens to put butts in the seats.

[a700hitter]

It is no comfort to me knowing that our pitching staff will not finish with a 6 ERA. I don't think any team has finished a season with a 6 ERA. I don't need any stats to tell me that our pitching will get better, but that doesn't mean that they will be good.

 

At best, this staff could have been projected as mediocre. There was most definitely a valid concern that it would be a train wreck. The most recent performance (2014) of Masterson and Buchholz indicated a disturbing trend downward. That trend has continued with Masterson and the FO has acknowledged that the signing was a mistake by forcing him onto a phantom DL in the middle of May. Buch has continued the inconsistency that he demonstrated throughout 2014. Miley's 2014 performance also also indicated a disturbing trend down in performance.

 

No one could foresee or would predict a 6+ ERA at this point, because that is something that I don't think has ever occurred over the course of a full season, but there was plenty of statistics that indicated that this staff could turn out very bad. I remember posters expressing concerns of dire consequences before the season and some of those posters are generally thought to be optimists.

[Kimmi]

No one can disagree with what you have said here with respect to the statistical analysis. I think that most people certainly felt that a big expenditure in quality pitching did not happen. The people in charge felt that they had done enough. Projecting that things have to get better is just that - a projection. I certainly hope that you are right but at this point in time with over 20% of the season complete, did any statistical analysis project that the pitching would be this bad? I know that you are thinking that because of that things must improve. I hope that you are right but the fact remains that they might not. Which will improve sooner, the hitting or the pitching? My guess - the pitching moves are just beginning. For the record, I had no predictions with respect to this pitching staff - starters as well as bullpen. I bought and actually am still buying the positive plan. If it doesn't work out, changes I am sure will be made. The people in charge of putting the team together have to be accountable or there will have to be a lot more promotional events at the Fens to put butts in the seats.

 

I realize it's just a projection, and that the starters might continue to stink as badly as they have been. I'm just saying that there is some reason to be optimistic. Either way, I think we all expected that a trade would be made for another starter near the deadline if the team is still in the hunt.

 

The offense has been just as much to blame as the pitching, IMO. They were supposed to be the best in the league. They are near the bottom in several offensive categories. They have to get better too.

[Kimmi]

It is no comfort to me knowing that our pitching staff will not finish with a 6 ERA. I don't think any team has finished a season with a 6 ERA. I don't need any stats to tell me that our pitching will get better, but that doesn't mean that they will be good.

 

At best, this staff could have been projected as mediocre. There was most definitely a valid concern that it would be a train wreck. The most recent performance (2014) of Masterson and Buchholz indicated a disturbing trend downward. That trend has continued with Masterson and the FO has acknowledged that the signing was a mistake by forcing him onto a phantom DL in the middle of May. Buch has continued the inconsistency that he demonstrated throughout 2014. Miley's 2014 performance also also indicated a disturbing trend down in performance.

 

No one could foresee or would predict a 6+ ERA at this point, because that is something that I don't think has ever occurred over the course of a full season, but there was plenty of statistics that indicated that this staff could turn out very bad. I remember posters expressing concerns of dire consequences before the season and some of those posters are generally thought to be optimists.

 

No one is saying that they will be good. But they should be league average, which is a significant improvement over league worst. Again, this team was built around a strong offense and mediocre pitching. The offense is supposed to carry the team. If the rotation can be mediocre instead of terrible, that should be good enough to keep them in the race.

 

I disagree that there were plenty of stats that indicated this rotation could turn out to be very bad. IMO, there was more of an indication that there would be some improvement from a couple of the guys. A "disturbing trend" downward for Masterson and Buchholz? You're exaggerating just a tad. It's interesting, however, that a bad year from Buchholz and an injured Masterson is a disturbing trend downward, but a good year from Porcello is a fluke.

[Northern Star]

Again, this team was built around a strong offense and mediocre pitching. The offense is supposed to carry the team. If the rotation can be mediocre instead of terrible, that should be good enough to keep them in the race.

 

But not enough to win a championship. It's the post-2001 Yankees' backassward way of building a roster.

[a700hitter]

I disagree that there were plenty of stats that indicated this rotation could turn out to be very bad. IMO, there was more of an indication that there would be some improvement from a couple of the guys. A "disturbing trend" downward for Masterson and Buchholz? You're exaggerating just a tad. It's interesting, however, that a bad year from Buchholz and an injured Masterson is a disturbing trend downward, but a good year from Porcello is a fluke.

Don't attribute the arguments or statements of others to me. I never called Porcello's season a "fluke", but I do stand by my statement that the 2014 seasons of Masterson and Buchholz presented cause for concern as did Miley 's 2014 season. While 1 season might not establish a trend, it was cause for concern. The concerning 2014 performances were not for 1 but 3 members of the 5 man rotation, so it was foreseeable that the rotation could fall apart.

 

Also, I am very curious about any indications that Masterson would improve. Had there been any indication that his lost velocity had returned?

Edited May 15, 2015 by a700hitter

[Kimmi]

But not enough to win a championship. It's the post-2001 Yankees' backassward way of building a roster.

 

Maybe, maybe not. But the first goal is to get to the postseason. Once there, it really is more or less a crapshoot.

 

At any rate, I fully expect the FO to add another pitcher by the deadline if the Sox stay in the race.

[Kimmi]

Don't attribute the arguments or statements of others to me. I never called Porcello's season a "fluke", but I do stand by my statement that the 2014 seasons of Masterson and Buchholz presented cause for concern as did Miley 's 2014 season. While 1 season might not establish a trend, it was cause for concern. The concerning 2014 performances were not for 1 but 3 members of the 5 man rotation, so it was foreseeable that the rotation could fall apart.

 

Also, I am very curious about any indications that Masterson would improve. Had there been any indication that his lost velocity had returned?

 

Perhaps you didn't call his season a fluke, but you also do not see Porcello as a #2 pitcher based on his last season. If one year is enough to establish a disturbing downward trend, then one year should be enough to establish an upward trend.

 

At the time that Masterson was signed, I don't know if there was any indication that his velocity had returned. However, it is not unreasonable to expect the velocity to return when a pitcher regains his health after an injury.

[Northern Star]

Maybe, maybe not. But the first goal is to get to the postseason. Once there, it really is more or less a crapshoot.

 

At any rate, I fully expect the FO to add another pitcher by the deadline if the Sox stay in the race.

 

95% of the time, great pitching is what wins championships.