2014 Offseason Thread

[a700hitter]

I think they would like to make a big signing before tickets go on sale in the first week of December.

I got this email today from the Red Sox. LOL!!

 

JOIN THE SEASON TICKET WAITLIST

 

Make yourself or your business a priority today by joining the most exclusive

list in New England! Become a member of the Boston Red Sox Season Ticket

Waitlist, securing your opportunity to be part of the excitement at Fenway Park

for seasons to come. Season Ticket Waitlist members will receive special

opportunities, including offers and presales from time to time for Red Sox

games, concerts at Fenway, and other events throughout the year.

 

[RedSoxNC84]

You never know what ninja s*** Cherington will pull, but the Phillies have been trying to shop Hamels to the Sox.. Perhaps they'll take Cespedes and a package for Hamels.

[Palodios]

You never know what ninja s*** Cherington will pull, but the Phillies have been trying to shop Hamels to the Sox.. Perhaps they'll take Cespedes and a package for Hamels.

 

It sounds like the Phillies have been asking for a ton of top talent for Hamels, and the Red Sox more or less have moved on. There are too many talented pitchers available to give up several blue chippers for Hamels.

[a700hitter]

It sounds like the Phillies have been asking for a ton of top talent for Hamels, and the Red Sox more or less have moved on. There are too many talented pitchers available to give up several blue chippers for Hamels.

The Globe is reporting that the Red Sox have had "most serious discussions" with Phillies about Hamels.

[a700hitter]

And now it seems they've once again decided to make like George Steinbrenner's Yankees, bringing in Sandoval and Ramirez even though they're heading toward the back stretches of their careers and will block the younger players.

 

From an article on RedSox.com

[RedSoxNC84]

It sounds like the Phillies have been asking for a ton of top talent for Hamels, and the Red Sox more or less have moved on. There are too many talented pitchers available to give up several blue chippers for Hamels.

 

Very true, but you really never know what kind of crazy stuff Ben has up his sleeve.

[RedSoxNC84]

Per mlbtraderumors:

 

2:55pm: Though there have been conflicting reports ongoing throughout the day as to whether or not Sandoval has officially selected the Red Sox’ offer, John Shea of the San Francisco Chronicle tweets that not only is Sandoval’s deal with the Red Sox done, but it will be announced soon.

[Bellhorn04]

FWIW this Jake Wesley kid is now tweeting some promising stuff about Lester...this kid apparently knows someone with the Red Sox.

[a700hitter]

FWIW this Jake Wesley kid is now tweeting some promising stuff about Lester...this kid apparently knows someone with the Red Sox.

It's a pseudonym for John Henry.

[Palodios]

The Globe is reporting that the Red Sox have had "most serious discussions" with Phillies about Hamels.

 

Ofcourse they are. The Phillies are completely unwilling to eat any of the contract, and want 3 bluechippers. Who else has those kind of resources? Cubs or Red Sox, and the Cubs have spent too much time building their farm to burn it down for a 31 year old.

[Palodios]

FWIW this Jake Wesley kid is now tweeting some promising stuff about Lester...this kid apparently knows someone with the Red Sox.

 

If that's true, I will gladly eat my words.

[GomesBeard]

Can't seem to find him on the twitter but lot's of Jake Westleys.... Anyone have his id?

[Northern Star]

Sandoval OR Hanley was a sizeable risk - signing both is not good, IMO - especially if they expect Hanley to play the OF.

[Spudboy]

Sandoval OR Hanley was a sizeable risk - signing both is not good, IMO - especially if they expect Hanley to play the OF.

 

I'm kind of on the fence with these two deals.

 

To me it is like a week "deva vu all over again". It's not Gonzo / Crawford but it certainly shows us that the Sox are willing to spend big and maybe incorrectly to regain or retain fan interest.

 

Making moves to build the rotation will signal a willingness to byuld a competitive and winning team for the near future.

 

I just have a queasy feeling about it.

 

It's almost Yankee-esq.

[seabeachfred]

I feel like everyone has been saying this for the last 16 months

 

Hey Ben, make it happen.

 

Pal and Mannyhof, the Red Sox do NOT have the money left to sign Lester unless they are willing to raise the ante for Jon and fly over the luxury tax. Even trading Cespedes, no sure thing, is going to give the money to sign Jon. I think we will have to trade a lot of players from the team as well as prospects to trade for those two good pitchers not named Santana, Hummels, Masterson or McCarthy. I know I've had a few barbs thrown my way today but the fact remains without two solid pitchers we are in deep s***. Now maybe, just maybe, Cherington will get on the horn and make those trades to get us those two standout starters because in my opinion Lester is as good as gone.

[seabeachfred]

I think the phrase is "low-cost, high-reward", which makes Fred's statement true. (Low risk in money/time and the hope of them being successful.)

I could be wrong, though.

 

That's right IO. You sign some mediocrities from the dumpster for middling amounts of money and hope you strike gold. Historical fact: It has NEVER worked for us in the 14+ years I've been a Red Sox fanatic. In fact, it usually has resulted in one disaster after another--like that stupid closer by committee debacle in 2003 that cost us the division title and home field advantage in the ALCS vs the Yankees. Remember? Remember Boone??????

[seabeachfred]

It sounds like the Phillies have been asking for a ton of top talent for Hamels, and the Red Sox more or less have moved on. There are too many talented pitchers available to give up several blue chippers for Hamels.

 

Well the Red Sox are going to have to move back to Hamels because they now have a clog of players---too many for the positions available and if they don't trade some of them there will be turmoil in the clubhouse and on the team next season because some of these players will not stand for sitting on the bench. That you can take to the bank. Even if we have moved on from Hamels, pitching is going to cost us dearly because every damn team knows we need two top starters and have to thin out our position playing ranks. They can hold us hostage if they want and we can do nothing about it without risking a team revolt sometime next season.

[seabeachfred]

From an article on RedSox.com

 

Ted, as I've said on numerous occasions on this board, the pathetic showing of Bradley, Middlebrooks and Bogaerts this season has shaken the front office and ownership to its core. For TV ratings, for attendance figures, for a happy and contented media and press, Prune Face and Company have panicked themselves into doing what they said they would never do again except in cases of extreme exceptions-----and I don't think signing the like of injury prone and sieve fielding Ramirez or the portly non power hitting Pablo should be considered extreme exceptions. If we don't get those two top quality pitchers and very soon we can most likely look forward to another mediocre season with an angry press and media, a frustrated fan base, and attendance and TV rating in the sewer. I know I'm a minority here but I think these signing are a big mistake.

[Palodios]

Pal and Mannyhof, the Red Sox do NOT have the money left to sign Lester unless they are willing to raise the ante for Jon and fly over the luxury tax. Even trading Cespedes, no sure thing, is going to give the money to sign Jon. I think we will have to trade a lot of players from the team as well as prospects to trade for those two good pitchers not named Santana, Hummels, Masterson or McCarthy. I know I've had a few barbs thrown my way today but the fact remains without two solid pitchers we are in deep s***. Now maybe, just maybe, Cherington will get on the horn and make those trades to get us those two standout starters because in my opinion Lester is as good as gone.

Cafardo seems to think the Red Sox have 40 million left under the luxury tax.

[jd98]

I think the phrase is "low-cost, high-reward", which makes Fred's statement true. (Low risk in money/time and the hope of them being successful.)

I could be wrong, though.

 

ok, I see now. Low risk as in money and years, where I always interpreted it as low risk of the player sucking. Not really important, I just thought after seeing that 4 or 5 times I would 'correct' him, but I was misunderstanding. And I am also concerned that the Sox will end up going this route, especially if they miss out on Lester.

 

I was also wrong about Panda being the highest paid player now, since Hanley's deal had been misreported. That doesn't change the Panda deal though, only makes the Hanley deal not quite as good. Maybe I'm only 82% excited about the Hanley deal now.

[jd98]

Cafardo seems to think the Red Sox have 40 million left under the luxury tax.

 

Cafardo is way off, unless some guys have been traded already

 

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/alex-speier/2014/10/01/ready-go-market-look-red-sox-2015-payroll-and-

 

Speier had estimated $52 mil before Koji, Panda, Hanley, but he also was saving $10 mil for in-season moves. Adding in that $10 mil would leave about $11 mil left.

[jacksonianmarch]

This is AMAZING! You guys just got a fat, overrated near average third baseman for major money and just spent a metric ton of cash on a chronically injured converted SS to play LF for the first time in his life. I f***ING LOVE these moves. I cannot wait for the next one. I hope you seal the trifecta and spend a boatload of prospects and cash to get Tyson Ross.

[seabeachfred]

This is AMAZING! You guys just got a fat, overrated near average third baseman for major money and just spent a metric ton of cash on a chronically injured converted SS to play LF for the first time in his life. I f***ING LOVE these moves. I cannot wait for the next one. I hope you seal the trifecta and spend a boatload of prospects and cash to get Tyson Ross.

 

Jacko, you say things like that and are denounced for being a f***ing Yankee fan. I say the same thing and I'm accused of being disloyal to the Red Sox. The fact is I think both of us are right. Sandoval's signing was a bad move.....his OPS has gone done for four years in a row, he is slow and fat and the weight needle is only pointing up over the course of this contract. As for Ramirez, if that was not a stupid or panic move, or both I don't know what else to call it. He is a chronic complainer who wore out his welcome in Boston BEFORE he was even on the team, he wore out his welcome in Florida even though he had two pretty damn good seasons, he was shown the door in LA where his attitude as also starting to be in question. He can no longer play shortstop worth s*** anymore, he was never good when he played third, so how the hell is he going to play left field for us? That, plus he has a tendency to be a loafer and sulker. These signings, unless they are soon accompanied with the signing or trading of two top notch pitchers not named Hummel, Santana, Masterson or McCarthy, will only lead us to another s***** season.

[Orange Juiced]

This is AMAZING! You guys just got a fat, overrated near average third baseman for major money and just spent a metric ton of cash on a chronically injured converted SS to play LF for the first time in his life. I f***ING LOVE these moves. I cannot wait for the next one. I hope you seal the trifecta and spend a boatload of prospects and cash to get Tyson Ross.

 

jackson, I understand your sentiment. But please. Consider:

 

1. One WAR is worth between $6-7 million. Sandoval, the past four seasons, has averaged 3.6 WAR. This past year he was worth 3.3 WAR. That 3.3 WAR is worth between $19.8 and $23.1 million in todays baseball economy. The contract is worth about $19.5 AAV (if I read the reports correctly). That would put his contract to be slightly undervalued given what he actually produces. Now, we can talk about whether one WAR *should* be worth that much money. But such talk is irrelevant. Because that's what it is worth in today's baseball economy. So Sandoval is not a *great* deal, but he's not bad either.

 

2. Hanley is on just a 4-year deal. He's just 30. And despite his injuries, he still put up 5.4 and 3.5 WAR the past two seasons. So he's worth well north of $22 million per season.

 

3. In 2013, the Red Sox won the World Series with Jonny Gomes and Daniel Nava patrolling left field. They were -0.4 and -1.3 defensive WAR in 2013, respectively. Hanley will be better than -1.7 dWAR almost by default. And if not, his offense is still better.

 

4. Last year, Red Sox' LF and 3b had a .700 and .580 ops, respectively. Hanley had an .817 ops and Sandoval had a .739 ops, in pitchers' parks. MAJOR offensive upgrade for the 2015 Red Sox.

 

5. They still have plenty of money for Lester.

 

6. They will deal Cespedes for pitching.

 

7. The Red Sox are a much better baseball team right now than they were in 2014. With more to come.

 

8. They still have a ridiculously stacked farm system with some of the best prospects in baseball.

 

Long story short, if I'm a Yankee fan, I'm not exactly laughing at the Red Sox right at this moment. But YMMV I guess.

[a700hitter]

Jacko, you say things like that and are denounced for being a f***ing Yankee fan. I say the same thing and I'm accused of being disloyal to the Red Sox. The fact is I think both of us are right. Sandoval's signing was a bad move.....his OPS has gone done for four years in a row, he is slow and fat and the weight needle is only pointing up over the course of this contract. As for Ramirez, if that was not a stupid or panic move, or both I don't know what else to call it. He is a chronic complainer who wore out his welcome in Boston BEFORE he was even on the team, he wore out his welcome in Florida even though he had two pretty damn good seasons, he was shown the door in LA where his attitude as also starting to be in question. He can no longer play shortstop worth s*** anymore, he was never good when he played third, so how the hell is he going to play left field for us? That, plus he has a tendency to be a loafer and sulker. These signings, unless they are soon accompanied with the signing or trading of two top notch pitchers not named Hummel, Santana, Masterson or McCarthy, will only lead us to another s***** season.

 

I wonder if there is a weight clause in his contract.

[jacksonianmarch]

This is just weird. Their lineup as it was constructed was pretty good. Good enough, IMO, to be a top 10 offense again. The problem is, the sox pitching staff is dead. You've got 5 open slots in the rotation. Buchholz and Kelly suck, no rookie stood out. You need 5 new starters. And you didn't get any in the first $170+ million spent in FA

[Orange Juiced]

This is just weird. Their lineup as it was constructed was pretty good. Good enough, IMO, to be a top 10 offense again. The problem is, the sox pitching staff is dead. You've got 5 open slots in the rotation. Buchholz and Kelly suck, no rookie stood out. You need 5 new starters. And you didn't get any in the first $170+ million spent in FA

 

Their lineup was HORRIFIC last year. They were 11th in the AL in runs scored. Now their lineup should be:

 

RF Betts

2b Pedroia

DH Ortiz

LF Ramirez

3b Sandoval

1b Napoli

SS Bogaerts

CF Castillo

C Vazquez

 

That's a very good lineup, capable of being top 3 in runs scored.

 

As far as pitching goes, yes, they have major holes. But if you think the Sox aren't going to address that, you're crazy. They'll get two quality starters and roll with those two, Buchholz (who, when healthy, is quality), Kelly (he's ok, not great), and one of the kids, probably RDLR, who was fine for a #5 pitcher.

[jacksonianmarch]

jackson, I understand your sentiment. But please. Consider:

 

1. One WAR is worth between $6-7 million. Sandoval, the past four seasons, has averaged 3.6 WAR. This past year he was worth 3.3 WAR. That 3.3 WAR is worth between $19.8 and $23.1 million in todays baseball economy. The contract is worth about $19.5 AAV (if I read the reports correctly). That would put his contract to be slightly undervalued given what he actually produces. Now, we can talk about whether one WAR *should* be worth that much money. But such talk is irrelevant. Because that's what it is worth in today's baseball economy. So Sandoval is not a *great* deal, but he's not bad either.

 

One WAR may be worth $6 mil or so, but you are expecting him to be worth 3.3 WAR a year for the next 5 yrs. Plus, he's been declining for 4 years AND is extremely overweight. I would be shocked if you got 3.3 WAR per yr over the life of the contract.

 

2. Hanley is on just a 4-year deal. He's just 30. And despite his injuries, he still put up 5.4 and 3.5 WAR the past two seasons. So he's worth well north of $22 million per season.

 

He also put up that WAR while missing 110 games the last 2 seasons. He's played 140 or more games once since 2010. He also has never played LF before. He also turns 31, and hasn't exactly been lighting the world aflame of late. The last time he put up a full season at or above his career OPS was 2009. He had one outstanding half season in 2013, but only played 86 games. Aside from that, he was good, but not great in 2014, terrible in 2012 and miserable in 2011. That, plus the fact that every team he has played for hates him and he never wins anywhere. Lester hated him. His managers hated him. The sox dealt him because they couldn't stand him. He's still a dink. This is absolutely and totally against what won the sox their title in 2013 and he is currently your highest paid player by AAV. That's a joke.

 

3. In 2013, the Red Sox won the World Series with Jonny Gomes and Daniel Nava patrolling left field. They were -0.4 and -1.3 defensive WAR in 2013, respectively. Hanley will be better than -1.7 dWAR almost by default. And if not, his offense is still better.

 

You also had Big Juicy hitting like it was 2005 again. Pedroia hit over .300. Your catcher launched 20 bombs. Your CF was worth 5 wins. Your RFer was worth more. Your SS picked everything and had a near .800OPS. Needless to say, comparing anything to 2013 doesn't really work, even if it fits your argument

 

4. Last year, Red Sox' LF and 3b had a .700 and .580 ops, respectively. Hanley had an .817 ops and Sandoval had a .739 ops, in pitchers' parks. MAJOR offensive upgrade for the 2015 Red Sox.

 

It is an upgrade offensively, that much is for sure. An upgrade on a last place team who dealt away its only useful pitchers. The question is, how much of an upgrade is it and how long will it stay that way?

 

5. They still have plenty of money for Lester.

 

So they say, but they also say they want to stay below the cap. That leaves little for Lester, and if Lester is the big ticket pitching signing, who else do you get to pitch? Lester makes you better, but the next 4 in the rotation suck *******

 

6. They will deal Cespedes for pitching.

 

And how many people are going to line up to deal their better pitchers for a guy who is painted as a malcontent who no longer has a spot in your lineup? His value fell 50% today

 

7. The Red Sox are a much better baseball team right now than they were in 2014. With more to come.

 

Says who? Your pitching is far worse than it was at the beginning of 2014

 

8. They still have a ridiculously stacked farm system with some of the best prospects in baseball.

 

You do have a good farm system, no doubt. But 2014 wasn't kind to your MLB debuters and other young big leaguers. Bradley, Bogaerts, and Middlebrooks lost value. Betts is the only one who gained

 

Long story short, if I'm a Yankee fan, I'm not exactly laughing at the Red Sox right at this moment. But YMMV I guess.

 

We have our own problems. But you just shot yourself in the foot

[Orange Juiced]

One WAR may be worth $6 mil or so, but you are expecting him to be worth 3.3 WAR a year for the next 5 yrs. Plus, he's been declining for 4 years AND is extremely overweight. I would be shocked if you got 3.3 WAR per yr over the life of the contract.

 

I would be shocked too. But two things: (1) As his WAR decreases, the value of one WAR increases, so it may even out. And (2) it's ok if he is a bit of an overpay late in his contract. By then the Sox will have so much cost-controlled talent in the majors that they'll be able to afford it easily.

 

He also put up that WAR while missing 110 games the last 2 seasons. He's played 140 or more games once since 2010. He also has never played LF before. He also turns 31, and hasn't exactly been lighting the world aflame of late. The last time he put up a full season at or above his career OPS was 2009. He had one outstanding half season in 2013, but only played 86 games. Aside from that, he was good, but not great in 2014, terrible in 2012 and miserable in 2011. That, plus the fact that every team he has played for hates him and he never wins anywhere. Lester hated him. His managers hated him. The sox dealt him because they couldn't stand him. He's still a dink. This is absolutely and totally against what won the sox their title in 2013 and he is currently your highest paid player by AAV. That's a joke.

 

Yep, he was SO good that even playing far less than a full season he STILL put up those WAR numbers. Let a healthy Victorino play the other games and you've got a very valuable and productive OF combo. Hanley Ramirez is a VERY good baseball player. Trying to spin it otherwise is just that…spin.

 

You also had Big Juicy hitting like it was 2005 again. Pedroia hit over .300. Your catcher launched 20 bombs. Your CF was worth 5 wins. Your RFer was worth more. Your SS picked everything and had a near .800OPS. Needless to say, comparing anything to 2013 doesn't really work, even if it fits your argument

 

Believe me, I know that they all had great years that year. I'm just saying that even if Hanley isn't the best defensive LF, you can very much win with that. Fortunately, they'll be *outstanding* on defense at C, 1b, 2b, CF, and RF.

 

It is an upgrade offensively, that much is for sure. An upgrade on a last place team who dealt away its only useful pitchers. The question is, how much of an upgrade is it and how long will it stay that way?

 

It'll be an upgrade for a while. If they don't address the pitching, it won't matter. But we both know they will address the pitching.

 

So they say, but they also say they want to stay below the cap. That leaves little for Lester, and if Lester is the big ticket pitching signing, who else do you get to pitch? Lester makes you better, but the next 4 in the rotation suck *******

 

They have plenty of money to add Lester, trade Cespedes for a #2 starter (Iwakuma?), and stay under the luxury tax threshold.

 

And how many people are going to line up to deal their better pitchers for a guy who is painted as a malcontent who no longer has a spot in your lineup? His value fell 50% today

 

You just need one. And his value will be fine as long as there's a team that needs a power hitter and has a good SP with just one year left on his contract. And there are plenty of those teams out there actually. Seattle is a perfect fit with Iwakuma.

 

Says who? Your pitching is far worse than it was at the beginning of 2014

 

Yes it is. I'm not going by the start of 2014, when they were the defending WS champs. I'm comparing it to the end of 2014, which is what we should be doing because, you know, that's the team they ended up with last year.

 

You do have a good farm system, no doubt. But 2014 wasn't kind to your MLB debuters and other young big leaguers. Bradley, Bogaerts, and Middlebrooks lost value. Betts is the only one who gained

 

Betts is going to be a monster. Bogaerts will be just fine. Still a stacked farm system.

 

We have our own problems. But you just shot yourself in the foot

 

Hardly. The Sox are better today by a wide margin than they were yesterday. But again, YMMV.

[User Name]

Nice try, generally obnoxious Yankee fan, but Orange Juiced clearly has your number.