2014 Offseason Thread

[cp176]

Very canny move by Shields. Took his talents (again) to a place which offers a potentially optimal pitching environment. Now, on paper the Padres outfield looks ghastly compared to the really really good defenses Shields has played with in the past. At the same time Petco is where homeruns go to die - so that offsets quite a bit of that.

 

I think that the industry clearly was skeptical about Shields' ability to play in a hitter friendly situation, and his inability to score a $20M AAV deal (despite his numbers and durability being quite justified) I think reflects that. (along with his age too of course, although the age might influence the years more than the AAV)

 

I think that he was just intelligent to take the offer that he got. I think that he did realize that he likely wasn't getting more. His good fortune to be playing in a ballpark that seems to suit him. I think that his "plan" called for substantially more money than he got. Looks to me like he got plenty.

[Spudboy]

I read a while back that Shields preferred to pitch in southern California because he was from that area or that he had family there.

 

If so, his target has been San Diego all along and he was ignoring whatever offers came his way from teams elsewhere.

 

Maybe he just decided that he wanted to pitch where he wanted to pitch regardless of the money.

 

Everything is speculation.

[sk7326]

I read a while back that Shields preferred to pitch in southern California because he was from that area or that he had family there.

 

If so, his target has been San Diego all along and he was ignoring whatever offers came his way from teams elsewhere.

 

Maybe he just decided that he wanted to pitch where he wanted to pitch regardless of the money.

 

Everything is speculation.

 

Probably little from column A, little from column B. It's a reasonable move for San Diego. They clearly are trying to turn things around quickly. Whether or not this is a smart way to do it, I do respect the pro-activeness.

[Spudboy]

Probably little from column A, little from column B. It's a reasonable move for San Diego. They clearly are trying to turn things around quickly. Whether or not this is a smart way to do it, I do respect the pro-activeness.

 

I imagine all five of the Padre fans are excited.

 

The Padres are said to have "won the off season".

 

But will all their bold moves translate to the win column?

[a700hitter]

I read a while back that Shields preferred to pitch in southern California because he was from that area or that he had family there.

 

If so, his target has been San Diego all along and he was ignoring whatever offers came his way from teams elsewhere.

 

Maybe he just decided that he wanted to pitch where he wanted to pitch regardless of the money.

 

Everything is speculation.

It's a nice ready-made excuse to store away for future use if Shields has a big season and our staff falls apart.

[cp176]

I read a while back that Shields preferred to pitch in southern California because he was from that area or that he had family there.

 

If so, his target has been San Diego all along and he was ignoring whatever offers came his way from teams elsewhere.

 

Maybe he just decided that he wanted to pitch where he wanted to pitch regardless of the money.

 

Everything is speculation.

 

Are there really guys like that around anymore? Maybe he thought the 20 million a year was enough . I think that San Francisco as well as a few other teams out there on the left coast were also potential payers for him.

[sk7326]

I imagine all five of the Padre fans are excited.

 

The Padres are said to have "won the off season".

 

But will all their bold moves translate to the win column?

 

Yes. Enough? Different questions.

 

With the 2nd wild card - they can at least put themselves in the mix - but then so can a lot of teams. This probably does put them firmly in the Top 3 in that division - so that is a start.

[sk7326]

It's a nice ready-made excuse to store away for future use if Shields has a big season and our staff falls apart.

 

Shields will have the season he always does - because he went to the sort of place where he always produced the seasons he does. I mean aside from his amazing ability to take the ball, it is hard for me to see him as that much of an upgrade over the current rotation.

[a700hitter]

Shields will have the season he always does - because he went to the sort of place where he always produced the seasons he does. I mean aside from his amazing ability to take the ball, it is hard for me to see him as that much of an upgrade over the current rotation.

I disagree. He will be much more productive than at least 3 of our 5 starters. He would have been a big upgrade.

[BSN07]

I love when a poster makes the post about another poster rather than the topic at hand.

 

I have no grudge against Theo. We won two championships on his watch, but I never thought that he was a great GM. He has been in Chicago for 3 full seasons finishing last twice and losing 101 games the other season. With the Cubs resources, IMO they should have given the fans a .500 team while rebuilding. I am a big believer in accountability. If they don't finish .500 with all of his hot young players and Lester, I think he is out of excuses after 4 seasons at the helm. I think that is plenty fair.

 

I'll take a last place finish and the chance at a Kris Bryant any day over pointless .500 seasons.

 

And Theo has taken 3 years because that's how awful that roster and system was. Seriously it was putrid and is now one of the tops in the league. Theo is there for the next few years imo. While the on field product may not have hit it's stride yet the franchise as a whole is leaps and bounds better than it was when he got there. No it's not all him obviously, but he deserves credit for what he has done. If I was a Cubs fan I would be happy with the direction of the team. They could surprise this year but I think they are contenders in 2016.

[Palodios]

"We're looking for a top pitcher... but at the right price". Seems like 4/70 and a third rounder was a good enough price to me.

 

It gives me some hope though. Maybe it means there will be another top pitcher next year who ends up being a bargain signing.

[a700hitter]

I'll take a last place finish and the chance at a Kris Bryant any day over pointless .500 seasons.

 

And Theo has taken 3 years because that's how awful that roster and system was. Seriously it was putrid and is now one of the tops in the league. Theo is there for the next few years imo. While the on field product may not have hit it's stride yet the franchise as a whole is leaps and bounds better than it was when he got there. No it's not all him obviously, but he deserves credit for what he has done. If I was a Cubs fan I would be happy with the direction of the team. They could surprise this year but I think they are contenders in 2016.

 

Finishing at .500 by year 3 would have shown some progress to the fans and the owners. If he can't start winning by the 4th season at the helm, that is not a good job IMO. He's building a baseball team not planning a mission to Mars. Sacrificing 4 years of competitive baseball under the banner of rebuilding would be ridiculous. You have to put out a product that is interesting at some point. Years and years of last place finishes disengages the fan base.

[Palodios]

Years and years of last place finishes disengages the fan base.

 

Maybe that is true for any other team, but Wrigley will be packed no matter how good they are. All the people I talk to from Chicago are very excited about what the organization is doing. Whether they are naive or not is another debate.

[a700hitter]

Taking 4 years to build a team that doesn't suck in a big market is not a great accomplishment.

[mvp 78]

To me, the Cubs is a vanity project for Theo. He's doing his best to bring in only "his guys." If they win, he'll be able to say that he built the entire organization.

[a700hitter]

To me, the Cubs is a vanity project for Theo. He's doing his best to bring in only "his guys." If they win, he'll be able to say that he built the entire organization.

I think that is it in a nutshell.

[User Name]

Taking 4 years to build a team that doesn't suck in a big market is not a great accomplishment.

 

Did Theo Epstein run over your dog or something? Enough with the penis envy, goddamn.

[User Name]

To me, the Cubs is a vanity project for Theo. He's doing his best to bring in only "his guys." If they win, he'll be able to say that he built the entire organization.

 

Do you blame him? More money, more power, and the ability to run a large-market outfit as he sees fit. The fact that if they go all the way he can get over the "you inherited your WS-winning roster" monkey off his back is just gravy.

[Palodios]

Taking 4 years to build a team that doesn't suck in a big market is not a great accomplishment.

 

Theo hasn't been spending money. From 2009-2011 the average Cubs payroll was 140 million. From 2012-2014 the average Cubs payroll was 105 million.

 

Here are the big signings of his tenure: Edwin Jackson @ 4/52, Jorge Soler 9/30 (yeah, nine years), David Dejesus @2/10. Jason Hammel @1/6. That's it. It isn't like he took over the Dodgers, spent 400 million dollars and has had a losing team. He has slow-played the rebuilding process.

[mvp 78]

Do you blame him? More money, more power, and the ability to run a large-market outfit as he sees fit. The fact that if they go all the way he can get over the "you inherited your WS-winning roster" monkey off his back is just gravy.

 

I'm not blaming him, I just think he's kind of a tool with a dash of megalomania. I hope the Cubs never give their s***** fans a parade.

[a700hitter]

Theo hasn't been spending money. From 2009-2011 the average Cubs payroll was 140 million. From 2012-2014 the average Cubs payroll was 105 million.

 

Here are the big signings of his tenure: Edwin Jackson @ 4/52, Jorge Soler 9/30 (yeah, nine years), David Dejesus @2/10. Jason Hammel @1/6. That's it. It isn't like he took over the Dodgers, spent 400 million dollars and has had a losing team. He has slow-played the rebuilding process.

 

So, he is going to build a winner with all prospects and Lester -- is that the plan? There are ways to build a winner faster. It seems that he is indulging his wet dream of building a team from scratch with all home grown players drafted by him. That takes a long time at the expense of the fans enjoyment. I know what he is doing and it is taking a long time and it is yet to bear fruit. 2015 is a put up or shut up year for Theo. The prospects are ready and he has Lester. He has no more excuses. It's his time of reckoning.

[sk7326]

So, he is going to build a winner with all prospects and Lester -- is that the plan? There are ways to build a winner faster. It seems that he is indulging his wet dream of building a team from scratch with all home grown players drafted by him. That takes a long time at the expense of the fans enjoyment. I know what he is doing and it is taking a long time and it is yet to bear fruit. 2015 is a put up or shut up year for Theo. The prospects are ready and he has Lester. He has no more excuses. It's his time of reckoning.

 

When you look at the major signings - Edwin Jackson was basically there because somebody had to pitch. Hammel was a buy low which paid off very well. Soler is winning a Cuban auction - there you go. One good thing about working for the Cubs is that issues the fans have with the team can be defrayed by the fact you are probably blowing off work to go see them.

 

I think this year definitely a leap has to be shown. The crazy haul of position prospects and bats needs to lead somewhere. Year 4 of a farm rehab type of rebuild should start to bear something - even if it is individual somethings. Fans are pretty smart - and will endure a rebuild, but at some point at least a couple of the "kids on their way" should be arriving. It's the reason you lay out for Maddon, who with Francona and Showalter are the best managers equipped at playing and improving kiddos when they're about to arrive.

[Kimmi]

So, he is going to build a winner with all prospects and Lester -- is that the plan? There are ways to build a winner faster. It seems that he is indulging his wet dream of building a team from scratch with all home grown players drafted by him. That takes a long time at the expense of the fans enjoyment. I know what he is doing and it is taking a long time and it is yet to bear fruit. 2015 is a put up or shut up year for Theo. The prospects are ready and he has Lester. He has no more excuses. It's his time of reckoning.

 

 

Of course there are faster ways to build a winner. But then after a few years, you'd be stuck with albatross contracts and you'd find yourself in the position that the Yankees are in. To build a winner that can sustain its success, you need to start with the farm, and that takes time. The Cubs will be much improved this year. This will be a put up year for Theo's team.

[Kimmi]

I'm not blaming him, I just think he's kind of a tool with a dash of megalomania. I hope the Cubs never give their s***** fans a parade.

 

 

Theo is King. And I don't get the knock on Cubs fans. If they are still fans after all they have endured, then they are true fans. IMO, they understand that patience is needed to build a winning franchise.

[mvp 78]

Go to a game at Wrigley wearing an StL hat.

 

They are just a bunch of people drunk off their asses on Old Style and wanting to see dingers.

[iortiz]

Cubs better post something around .500+ this year at least, otherwise a lot of question marks and pressure will be in effect.

[Kimmi]

Go to a game at Wrigley wearing an StL hat.

 

They are just a bunch of people drunk off their asses on Old Style and wanting to see dingers.

 

 

I've never been to Wrigley, so I'll take your word for it.

 

If I do get a chance to go this summer, I'll be wearing a Red Sox hat.

[iortiz]

Go to a game at Wrigley wearing an StL hat.

 

They are just a bunch of people drunk off their asses on Old Style and wanting to see dingers.

 

My sister went to Wrigley a couple a years ago and she loved the environment and all, but when I asked her about the game, she asked me, what game? LOL! Seems like Wrigley is just a PR coliseum these days.

 

Life is funny, She doesn't give a damn about baseball and somehow she's been in a couple of parks already, while me, finally next season will be my first time.

Edited February 9, 2015 by iortiz

[Kimmi]

It's a nice ready-made excuse to store away for future use if Shields has a big season and our staff falls apart.

 

 

Oh stop with the "ready-made excuse". You have no way of knowing for sure why Shields signed with the Padres, or knowing for sure what other kinds of offers he received. It's not making excuses anyway. It's trying to understand the rationale behind a decision, or in this case, a non-decision.

 

As I posted before, I thought the Sox should have been in on Shields at that price. But since they weren't, I'm not going to bash the FO, but rather try to understand why they weren't interested. They do have a good rationale behind their decision, whether you agree with it or not.

 

Also, Shields having a big season in San Diego would not necessarily translate to Shields having a big season in Boston.

[iortiz]

Oh stop with the "ready-made excuse". You have no way of knowing for sure why Shields signed with the Padres, or knowing for sure what other kinds of offers he received. It's not making excuses anyway. It's trying to understand the rationale behind a decision, or in this case, a non-decision.

 

As I posted before, I thought the Sox should have been in on Shields at that price. But since they weren't, I'm not going to bash the FO, but rather try to understand why they weren't interested. They do have a good rationale behind their decision, whether you agree with it or not.

 

Also, Shields having a big season in San Diego would not necessarily translate to Shields having a big season in Boston.

I think most people agree that Shields would have made any team better, regardless any rationale thought or decision behind. It seemed like a lot of teams were interested, and all of them for sure have their GOOD/BAD rationale/projection behind, time will tell. In our case, he is 2 or 3 steps ahead of any of our arms.