2014 Offseason Thread

[User Name]

Yep. I bet the Sox FO is aware of a number of good pitchers who are available for the right hard-to-part-with pieces. Who couldn't they get for a package of some combination of Owens, Rodriguez, De La Rosa, Betts and Swihart? They'd never offer that much, but the point stands.

 

I think this fact is exactly why the Sox would feel comfortable setting a limit on their offer to Lester. Everyone has an actual value, which means that at some point not paying the money ends up being the better choice. If they have few options they will go higher.

 

You, on the other hand, are pretty good at it.

[jacksonianmarch]

the sox can build a rotation in one offseason, just not a championship caliber one. And to add onto the losing out on Miller thing, he was a stalwart in an otherwise steady part of your team by the deadline. Removing him and leaning on Koji a little more is a precarious position, especially since Koji was abysmal after July

[User Name]

the sox can build a rotation in one offseason, just not a championship caliber one. And to add onto the losing out on Miller thing, he was a stalwart in an otherwise steady part of your team by the deadline. Removing him and leaning on Koji a little more is a precarious position, especially since Koji was abysmal after July

 

Actually, they very much can. Saying otherwise is asinine. Now, the fact that it is very hard is a whole other deal.

[jacksonianmarch]

Actually, they very much can. Saying otherwise is asinine. Now, the fact that it is very hard is a whole other deal.

 

Saying that you cannot build a championship rotation in a single offseason when the parts you currently have suck 1-5 is asinine? Alright, it is nearly impossible, but I guess not completely impossible. Is that better?

[jacksonianmarch]

Not to mention, your payroll constraints. The Sox aren't jumping up to $240 mil this offseason and currently, they're pegged right around the $165 mil mark right now when you factor in arb raises. You can build 1-5 if you buy the top 5 free agent pitchers or trade for Hamels. But signing Lester, Shields, and McCarthy while dealing for Hamels will cost you about $70 mil AAV

[User Name]

They don't need to jump to $240 million, and part of the way they'll get pitching either way is trading assets occupying the current payroll. Dude, i get your doom and gloom s***, but what are you smoking?

[Bellhorn04]

Not to mention, your payroll constraints. The Sox aren't jumping up to $240 mil this offseason and currently, they're pegged right around the $165 mil mark right now when you factor in arb raises. You can build 1-5 if you buy the top 5 free agent pitchers or trade for Hamels. But signing Lester, Shields, and McCarthy while dealing for Hamels will cost you about $70 mil AAV

 

More like $80-85 million in fact...

[Bellhorn04]

Here's a little thought to ponder. Let's say the Sox miss out on Lester, Scherzer, and Shields. Let's say they also can't work out a deal for Hamels or Cueto or any #1 that they can live with. Would they have the balls to make a couple of lesser acquisitions and ask the fandom to be patient for 2015 while they assess the prospects and work toward 2016?

[User Name]

They shouldn't miss out on all of those pitchers (plus the guys who are in the trading block besides the guys you mentioned) if they do, it's on them, and they should STFU and not ask for anything from the fanbase.

[User Name]

More like $80-85 million in fact...

 

They don't need to get four high-priced pitchers. That would be retarded. They need two high-caliber pitchers, and at least a spot to try and get something out of the massive stable of young pitchers they have in the minors. That would make zero sense.

[Palodios]

 

You have lost:

Jake Peavy

Jon Lester

John Lackey

Andrew Miller

 

It cannot be done in one offseason.

 

How hard do you think it will be to replace Jake Peavy's 4.72 ERA last year?

Felix's Doubront's 6.02 ERA?

Buchholz's 5.42 ERA?

 

The challenge will be replacing the production of Lester and Lackey, not the back end guys. If they sign Lester/Scherzer, trade for a #2, and find a good starter out of the prospects, this team will be fine.

[User Name]

How hard do you think it will be to replace Jake Peavy's 4.72 ERA last year?

Felix's Doubront's 6.02 ERA?

Buchholz's 5.42 ERA?

 

The challenge will be replacing the production of Lester and Lackey, not the back end guys. If they sign Lester/Scherzer, trade for a #2, and find a good starter out of the prospects, this team will be fine.

 

It's really that simple. Get the two top guys, and they can sort out the back end of the rotation just fine.

[Bellhorn04]

How hard do you think it will be to replace Jake Peavy's 4.72 ERA last year?

Felix's Doubront's 6.02 ERA?

Buchholz's 5.42 ERA?

 

The challenge will be replacing the production of Lester and Lackey, not the back end guys. If they sign Lester/Scherzer, trade for a #2, and find a good starter out of the prospects, this team will be fine.

 

That's a pretty big if on Lester/Scherzer however. If they fall short on Lester, do you really think they'll try to win the Scherzer auction?

[User Name]

They can win the auction on whoever they want. The question is if they're willing to do it. This is the Boston Red Sox we're talking about, not the San Diego Padres.

[Bellhorn04]

They can win the auction on whoever they want. The question is if they're willing to do it. This is the Boston Red Sox we're talking about, not the San Diego Padres.

 

Absolutely. But if there are a few teams in on Scherzer it's gonna get pretty stupid.

[SeanJohn93]

I don't really see the big deal in losing Miller. Relievers in free agency have always been a crap shoot. Last year was Millers best year of his career and I doubt he will be able to repeat that.

[Palodios]

Scherzer hasn't been getting much attention this offseason. He's not that much better than Lester, and costs the draft pick, and probably an extra year.

 

Scherzer isn't a sexy signing. He isn't a guy who has been known in the league for years, he's physically unattractive, and doesn't sound like he has any intangible value like leadership or playoff awards. Hell, most fans probably can't pronounce his name, and he doesn't have any fun nicknames that I am aware of. I don't see him being a guy that young teams like the Cubs will want to build their franchise around -- he's a complimentary piece on a team that already has starpower.

 

That being said, he'll get his 150-170 million, but not that much more than Lester.

[example1]

the sox can build a rotation in one offseason, just not a championship caliber one. And to add onto the losing out on Miller thing, he was a stalwart in an otherwise steady part of your team by the deadline. Removing him and leaning on Koji a little more is a precarious position, especially since Koji was abysmal after July

 

It's funny because both of the guys you mention here are guys the Sox acquired when their value was relatively low. They turned into great relief pieces under their watch. Yet it is impossible to think they might be able to do that again? It's not like Koji and Miller were relief-aces the Sox had to bend over backward to get.

[example1]

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/12/06/sources-john-henry-makes-trip-to-visit-jon-lester/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

Apparently John Henry himself went to visit Lester again yesterday. Queue Lester signing with Yankees a la Mark Teixeira.

[Bellhorn04]

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/12/06/sources-john-henry-makes-trip-to-visit-jon-lester/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

Apparently John Henry himself went to visit Lester again yesterday. Queue Lester signing with Yankees a la Mark Teixeira.

 

No Lucchino there though - that's a good thing.

[a700hitter]

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/12/06/sources-john-henry-makes-trip-to-visit-jon-lester/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

Apparently John Henry himself went to visit Lester again yesterday. Queue Lester signing with Yankees a la Mark Teixeira.

 

I hope that he didn't attempt another dead fish awkward hug.

[Spudboy]

Does anyone doubt that this will come down to money?

 

I'm of the opinion that if Henry did not bring an open checkbook to the meeting with Lester that he has just wasted time.

[Spudboy]

From MLB Trade Rumors:

 

 

Jon Lester Rumors: Saturday

By Mark Polishuk [December 6, 2014 at 2:47pm CST]

 

Here’s the latest on left-hander Jon Lester…

 

Lester was visited at his Atlanta home by Red Sox owner John Henry on Friday, according to WEEI.com’s Rob Bradford and Alex Speier. This is Henry’s second visit to Atlanta this winter, as he and other members of Boston’s ownership group met with Lester earlier this offseason.

The relationship between Lester and Red Sox ownership was addressed by Joel Sherman of the New York Post in his recent analysis of Lester’s market. A source involved in the negotiations described the two sides as “frenemies,” as Lester’s trust in the Sox organization was badly damaged by their lowball extension offer to him last spring. In pursuing Lester, then, the Sox have been doing everything they can to repair that trust, with Sherman comparing it to how Dan Gilbert (owner of the NBA’s Cleveland Cavaliers) had to atone for his past errors when convincing LeBron James to rejoin the Cavs last summer.

Lester “never even comes up in discussions” in the Yankees front office, one team executive tells Sherman. It is looking less and less likely that the Yankees will make a last-minute entry into the Lester sweepstakes, leaving perhaps the Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers and Giants as the four finalists.

Also from Sherman, Lester’s good friend Tim Hudson is working hard to convince the lefty to join him in the Giants rotation. Lester was reportedly “very impressed” by a meeting with manager Bruce Bochy.

 

I do not believe the bolded text.

[User Name]

That just means he's the Yanks' main target and this is Mark Teixeira 2.0. I will not be surprised nor particularly distraught when he signs with the Yanks, unlike the Damon fiasco. Money talks.

[Palodios]

It always seems like Lester really has no relationship with John Henry. I wish he had brought Pedroia and Ortiz with him.

[iortiz]

I think the Sox should pay whatever it takes to get the best pitchers available. It has worked for the Giants.

 

Totally agree. It's time to have a solid rotation whatever it takes. I'm tired of watching busts on the mound in the recent years. I wouldn't hesitate bringing Lester and Scherzer if they really want to win it all in the coming years.

[seabeachfred]

I disagree with you Doc. I don't see why building a rotation about as good as the one they started 2013 is not possible. And Miller, as well as he pitched for one season, is replaceable.

Cherrington said that there are several ways to build a rotation ( other than signing Lester ).

 

I'm not convinced that the Sox will be "all in" in pursuit of a title in 2015. I'm thinking that they may still value the chips they hold and will chase arms in a more abundant 2016 FA class.

 

But to say that the Sox can not build a rotation and replace "a Miller" in one off season is disingenuous or wishful thinking.

 

The risk there Spud is that in the last few years teams have been signing extensions with their better pitchers and if that takes place this year we could be in deep s***. We have to strike while the iron is hot and the pitchers are out there and available, otherwise we get some of those low risk high reward types that usually turn out to be chips....buffalo ones.

[seabeachfred]

Here's a little thought to ponder. Let's say the Sox miss out on Lester, Scherzer, and Shields. Let's say they also can't work out a deal for Hamels or Cueto or any #1 that they can live with. Would they have the balls to make a couple of lesser acquisitions and ask the fandom to be patient for 2015 while they assess the prospects and work toward 2016?

 

I know of one poster on this board who would be first in line to praise the hell out of the front office to doing just that......or anything else they would do. Want to venture a guess?

[seabeachfred]

Does anyone doubt that this will come down to money?

 

I'm of the opinion that if Henry did not bring an open checkbook to the meeting with Lester that he has just wasted time.

 

Right on both counts amigo. It will come down to money and Henry did NOT bring an open checkbook, and Lester thought it was a total waste of his time. Actually, you were right on three counts. Sorry for the omission at the beginning.

[iortiz]

Here's a little thought to ponder. Let's say the Sox miss out on Lester, Scherzer, and Shields. Let's say they also can't work out a deal for Hamels or Cueto or any #1 that they can live with. Would they have the balls to make a couple of lesser acquisitions and ask the fandom to be patient for 2015 while they assess the prospects and work toward 2016?

They already signed two of the best FA available to strength the offense. You just can't go half of the way, they need to address the pitching, si o si. Would be dumb not doing that NOW. Pitching was and is the main problem in this team in the first place. Also, one arm is not enough. We need at least 2 AND SOLID.