2014 Offseason Thread

[SeanJohn93]

Thank you

[User Name]

Lester bet on himself. He got an offer that reflected his inconsistency of being a true Ace in the seasons leading up to his walk year and passed. He hit the lotto and everyone has forgotten 2011-2012 and will likely double the original offer he got. Good for him. Doesn't mean it's a good baseball move imo.

 

The hilarious thing is that a lot of the people talking Lester up now are the same people i was trying to convince a couple years ago that Lester deserves ace status, and that he's not just a really good #2. The opportunity to whine is pretty good at changing people's opinion quickly.

[a700hitter]

You're right about all that. If Lester does go elsewhere, I'm sure we'll get 'the other side of the story' from the Sox FO.

We will get excuses and rationalizations. Neither interests me.

[Spudboy]

No one should begrudge Lester for taking advantage of this opportunity to score a big contract. This is his one big chance to do so.

 

It will be really interesting to see how people here and in the Boston fan market react if Lester does end up in pinstripes.

[a700hitter]

No one should begrudge Lester for taking advantage of this opportunity to score a big contract. This is his one big chance to do so.

 

It will be really interesting to see how people here and in the Boston fan market react if Lester does end up in pinstripes.

How will you take it?

[Palodios]

The hilarious thing is that a lot of the people talking Lester up now are the same people i was trying to convince a couple years ago that Lester deserves ace status, and that he's not just a really good #2. The opportunity to whine is pretty good at changing people's opinion quickly.

 

I've been arguing for him as a #1 for years, and that's why I'll be pissed if he signs elsewhere.

[BSN07]

I will laugh. Just like I did when they signed Ellsbury. If it's NY it will be for some ridiculous amount that kinda doesn't make sense. Yankees jump the shark every time, they would probably sign him for 7/175M with everyone else offering in the 6/130-140M.

[Spudboy]

How will you take it?

 

Count me as one of the people that think that the Sox could have taken care of this issue long ago.

 

I have never believed that he was coming back here once he was traded but will be disappointed if or when he signs elsewhere.

 

I hope to hell it is not in New York ( Yankees ) but if it is I will continue to be a fan of his. There is nothing bad that I can say about the guy. He carried himself as a mature and respectful person while in Boston and he always looked as though his heart was there when he pitched. Even when he did not do so well.

 

Right now I am anxious to have him sign so the Sox can start to make the other moves ( on way or another ) necessary to build a MLB rotation.

 

In my mind they need a number 1 type, a #2, and a #3 or #4 plus the pen needs more pieces.

 

I am hopeful that the Sox pull off a big splash move or two to yield legit top of rotation talent. They certainly have the resources to do it.

[Spudboy]

I will laugh. Just like I did when they signed Ellsbury. If it's NY it will be for some ridiculous amount that kinda doesn't make sense. Yankees jump the shark every time, they would probably sign him for 7/175M with everyone else offering in the 6/130-140M.

 

A move like that would not be out of character for the Yankess. If they do sign Lester they better hope that he stays healthy for a while because the Yankees are not ready to compete for a title now. This is a little different because when they have added big pieces in the past they were almost always in the hunt. Now they suck almost as badly as the Sox. I find no solace in that.

[BSN07]

My anger level will depend on what the Sox do to improve the sp. If they get a couple good SP losing Lester won't sting as much. If Buchholz is #1 going into the year I will be pissed and right there with some questioning what the f the FO is doing.

[Bellhorn04]

My anger level will depend on what the Sox do to improve the sp. If they get a couple good SP losing Lester won't sting as much. If Buchholz is #1 going into the year I will be pissed and right there with some questioning what the f the FO is doing.

 

Buchholz will definitely not be #1, but I think there are other scenarios that might piss you off too.

[BSN07]

Buchholz will definitely not be #1, but I think there are other scenarios that might piss you off too.

 

Probably.

[seabeachfred]

The f***ing Dodgers are at it again. Lester will get 160+ or maybe a 7th year.

I figured the Yankees would get involved but the f***ing Yankees of the west come in at the last minute to trump everybody. Only hope we have is just that Lester wants to be here.

 

I feel your pain my friend. Feel mine....I live in the Los Angeles area and can't stand the Dodgers in body, shape and form. They are the Yankees of the West and will do all they can to buy a WS Title. Even though I have never believed Lester was coming back to Boston I still held out hope I could be wrong. With the Dodgers now seemingly involved, if the tell tale turns out to be money first, well, Lester is not going to be with us.

[seabeachfred]

With all that I still say Lester with get close or exceed the 150 million mark. I seen a report on here that the red sox had offered him a 145 number and I hope that is the case.

 

But if they do lose out on Lester I hope they go all in on a trade for a legit #1 like chris sale and sign James Sheilds and then a trade for another 2a or 3 pitcher like Jeff Samardzija.

 

A rotation of Sale, Sheilds, Samardzija, Bucholtz, & Kelly wouldn't look too bad.

 

Given it will take a ton of top tier prospects to land Sale, but I'd rather have a young cost controlled Chris Sale in Boston than an aging Jon Lester anyways. But whose to say if Sale will be available. The ChiSox may think they can make a run this year and without Sale they don't have a rotation for s***.

 

This is Boston tho. They have addressed the hitting issue and they will address the pitching as well. This year's Winter Meeting will be interesting from the opening gate. And I plan on tivoing every minute of it.

 

Sale???? Would the White Sox even consider that? They have made it clear that they are not rebuilding and therefore it doesn't seem reasonable they would deal their ace lefthander. My rotation is not so different from yours. I would go for Hamels of the Phillies. First of all, Pat Gillick, who built the 2008 WS Champions and the 2009 NL titlists, is back and he will put some fire under the feel of stumble bum GM Ruben Amaro Jr. Hamels in a trade, FA James Shields, trade for Porcello and with Kelly and Buchholz we could win the AL East next year. We have both the means in talent and money to make two trades and sign one solid free agent pitcher in my opinion.

[seabeachfred]

Are you readying your excuses for the FO?

 

:)That's a good laugh Ted but I think what Palodios might be doing is giving the Red Sox front office some ammo for an excuse. Truth be told, when it does get into that high in years and money some prudence is called for. As much as I wanted Lester back and still do, when we are talking between $150-160 million dollars and six or seven years, when does sanity and good sense take over. For my part I have always believed Jon was leaving and our only hope was a comfort zone in Boston that would make him want to come back. Perhaps he will be the exception to the rule that it is always about the money and pull what Jared Weaver did a few years ago for the Angels and told agent Scott Boras that Anaheim was comfort for him and didn't want to pitch anywhere else. I wonder if Jon will do that for us?

[seabeachfred]

Count me as one of the people that think that the Sox could have taken care of this issue long ago.

 

I have never believed that he was coming back here once he was traded but will be disappointed if or when he signs elsewhere.

 

I hope to hell it is not in New York ( Yankees ) but if it is I will continue to be a fan of his. There is nothing bad that I can say about the guy. He carried himself as a mature and respectful person while in Boston and he always looked as though his heart was there when he pitched. Even when he did not do so well.

 

Right now I am anxious to have him sign so the Sox can start to make the other moves ( on way or another ) necessary to build a MLB rotation.

 

In my mind they need a number 1 type, a #2, and a #3 or #4 plus the pen needs more pieces.

 

I am hopeful that the Sox pull off a big splash move or two to yield legit top of rotation talent. They certainly have the resources to do it.

 

Spud, I think the Red Sox have to get pro-active by the beginning of next week. It appears that Lester is gone and we should get in on the ground floor in the Hamels, Shields, Samrardjiza and Cashner possibilities. If the Red Sox want to win the AL East next season, and that is a possibility given the eveness of the division, we all know that we need two solid pitchers who could fit into the No. 1 and 2 slots. If Jon still is deciding by the end of next week I think we need to move on. Besides, some of the money I'm now hearing that he may command is a little out of sorts from my vantage point----sorry to say since I wanted Lester back very badly but knew it might be a pipe dream.

[Spudboy]

:)That's a good laugh Ted but I think what Palodios might be doing is giving the Red Sox front office some ammo for an excuse. Truth be told, when it does get into that high in years and money some prudence is called for. As much as I wanted Lester back and still do, when we are talking between $150-160 million dollars and six or seven years, when does sanity and good sense take over. For my part I have always believed Jon was leaving and our only hope was a comfort zone in Boston that would make him want to come back. Perhaps he will be the exception to the rule that it is always about the money and pull what Jared Weaver did a few years ago for the Angels and told agent Scott Boras that Anaheim was comfort for him and didn't want to pitch anywhere else. I wonder if Jon will do that for us?

 

Fred I believe that things are well past that point if Lester did want to return at any point.

 

I still can see the faces of Lester and Gomes at their Oakland intro. They both looked as if they had just watched their little dog run over by a car. Stunned.

 

It was never a foregone conclusion that Lester would resign with the Sox. He offered a home town discount but who knows what that meant to him at that time?

 

Now the Sox have bungled it and have moved on. Maybe by design. I can see how they will spin it if or when Lester signs elsewhere. They will talk about how great a young man Lester is and how they assigned a value to him and exceeded it with their offers, blah, blah, blah.

 

Like yourself Fred, I have been hoping against hope for a return.

 

Let's just wait to see what your boy Cherries has up his sleeve in building the rotation.

 

As long as the Sox can keep XB, Betts, Swilhart, and possibly Owens and maybe Shaw I don't care who they move to get it done.

 

Unfortunately with needing to trade to get pitching I see the Sox loosing one or two of the top prospects.

 

Oh well.

[RedSoxNC84]

I'm normally one of cooler heads, but if Lester does sign somewhere else regardless of how we fill out the rotation, I will have a raging tirade that will make Fred look like he's the calmest person you've ever met.

[a700hitter]

I can see how they will spin it if or when Lester signs elsewhere. They will talk about how great a young man Lester is and how they assigned a value to him and exceeded it with their offers, blah, blah, blah.

 

Pete, I think you could work in the Red Sox PR department.

[example1]

No one should particularly care if they don't re-sign Lester unless they fail to adequately fill out the rotation. Well, unless you are dumb, or a whiner.

 

Also, this is a general point Pal, not referring to you.

 

I agree with bolded above. Lester might not come back--it wouldn't be the end of the Red Sox. I'd prefer if he did come back but there's a chance he won't and the team will move on.

[example1]

Crazy question: is there any way for a Cole Hamels and Cliff Lee deal to work for the Sox? Would the Sox necessarily get screwed over? Is there some way they could benefit by being willing to take some of his salary?

 

Yes, Lee is coming off of an injury. And he's older and very expensive. However, as recently as 2013 he threw 222 IP with a 1.010 WHIP and 222 Ks. That was similar to his last few years. Would I rather have James Shields for 4 years or Cliff Lee for his final 2? If it made it easier to get Hamels or if he cost few prospects would anyone take a shot to get him?

[pruneface]

When they had to ante up, the Sox offered 6/130+. That's a fair deal (actually, it's crazy - but that's for another thread). If he moves on, FO doesn't need to make excuses.

 

Sox are trying to get starters. They know their rotation is not battle tested.

[pruneface]

At the very bottom of baseballreference.com, they have a salary app with inflation adjustment. Just for kicks, this is what Babe Ruth would have earned in his highest salary year in 2014 (1933): $1,457,481

 

Contrast ARod: he would have made over 2 million in 1930 for his 2013 season. Babe Ruth made 80000 in 1933. So inflation can't account for this meteoric rise. Insanity can.

[mvp 78]

If the Sox don't sign Lester, they are stupid and can get f***ed. They should have stopped dicking him around last offseason.

 

Clearly 6/120 isn't going to cut it. They could have signed him for a lot cheaper last offseason but were too busy dry humping the WS trophy to care about the future of the team. Oh well.

[Bellhorn04]

When they had to ante up, the Sox offered 6/130+. That's a fair deal (actually, it's crazy - but that's for another thread). If he moves on, FO doesn't need to make excuses.

 

Sox are trying to get starters. They know their rotation is not battle tested.

 

Yes, I'm sure they're trying. But as it stands right now they seem to be in a pretty bad position. If they can't afford Lester, they obviously can't afford Scherzer either. Then you move on to Shields and lower tier FA's. If you want to trade for an ace you have to be prepared to surrender top prospects.

 

It does raise the question of what their plan was for the 2015 rotation going back to the start of 2014. They must have had some sort of plan right? I mean, they felt good enough about things to kick Lackey away for Kelly and what remains of Craig.

[a700hitter]

When they had to ante up, the Sox offered 6/130+. That's a fair deal (actually, it's crazy - but that's for another thread). If he moves on, FO doesn't need to make excuses.

 

Sox are trying to get starters. They know their rotation is not battle tested.

But they will make excuses, so I guess they will feel that they have to make excuses.

[a700hitter]

At the very bottom of baseballreference.com, they have a salary app with inflation adjustment. Just for kicks, this is what Babe Ruth would have earned in his highest salary year in 2014 (1933): $1,457,481

 

Contrast ARod: he would have made over 2 million in 1930 for his 2013 season. Babe Ruth made 80000 in 1933. So inflation can't account for this meteoric rise. Insanity can.

 

We have an "Introduce Yourself" Forum. You should go there and tell us about yourself.

[a700hitter]

Mariners GM Jack Zduriencik reiterated that pitcher Hisashi

Iwakuma will not be traded, tweets Greg Johns of MLB.com. Iwakuma, 34 next season, has been excellent when healthy. Unfortunately, he’s also missed parts of two out of three major league seasons.

I guess the Sox will have to look elsewhere.

[User Name]

If the Sox don't sign Lester, they are stupid and can get f***ed. They should have stopped dicking him around last offseason.

 

Clearly 6/120 isn't going to cut it. They could have signed him for a lot cheaper last offseason but were too busy dry humping the WS trophy to care about the future of the team. Oh well.

 

I don't buy it. Not one bit.

[Bellhorn04]

Here is all we know about the Red Sox initial negotiations with Lester: they made him an offer of 4 years for $70 million.

 

On April 17, 2014, Red Sox COO Sam Kennedy said the following on the Dennis & Callahan show:

 

“You have to remember, we’re starting from a place where the Red Sox, from John Henry on down to Jon Lester, want to make a deal. That’s the starting place. I think everybody feels good about that,” Kennedy said. “The problem with negotiations and details from baseball negotiations getting into the public domain when you have a leak like we did this past week related to this deal is one data point gets into the media, gets out there, gets dissected. I can tell you there are lots of other data points related to this negotiation that are not in the public spotlight, in the media. All I’ll say is that Ben Cherington, Jon Lester, Larry Lucchino, our ownership group will continue to work on this. And it’s clearly best when baseball discussions are kept private, and then baseball decisions are made public. That’s been our philosophy.

“Do we want to see Jon Lester in a Red Sox uniform for a long, long time? Absolutely, yes. As a fan, I hope that he is with us for a long, long time. We’ll see where things go over the coming weeks and months. But I’m hopeful that we do end up getting something done there.”

Edited December 5, 2014 by Bellhorn04