2014 Offseason Thread

[SoxFanForsyth]

 

 

Here we go. Sox hot stove could start very soon.

 

Personally I don't think he leaves Boston without a deal. If he does, he's going back to the Giants.

[BSN07]

I'd be happy if it only took 5 years.

[SoxFanForsyth]

All the prospect hating members, stop what you're doing and read this:

 

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/red-sox/content/20141118-as-prospects-struggle-across-baseball-players-mentality-matters-more-than-ever.ece

[BornToRun]

I was less than interested in Sandoval initially but if 5/90 gets it done, in this FA market, then I'm all in on bringing him to Boston. The deal would only take him through age 33/34 and if he does need to move to DH/1B later there's going to be room at one of those two spots in the not too distant future.

 

Edit: holy f***ing donkey balls, is that quote in your sig real, SFF?

[sk7326]

5/90 for Sandoval is not amazing but pretty reasonable - the "win the auction" premium is not actually that bad.

[Spudboy]

If both the Giants and Sox are offering about 5/90 why would Sandoval not return to SF???

[BornToRun]

If both the Giants and Sox are offering about 5/90 why would Sandoval not return to SF???

 

I just saw a report that said SF had 5/90 on the table and thought pretty much the same thing. If the Sox want him, I think it'd take something in the 5/100 area or them adding on a 6th year. I'm not entirely against this but it's certainly not as enticing as 5/90 is.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I was less than interested in Sandoval initially but if 5/90 gets it done, in this FA market, then I'm all in on bringing him to Boston. The deal would only take him through age 33/34 and if he does need to move to DH/1B later there's going to be room at one of those two spots in the not too distant future.

 

Edit: holy f***ing donkey balls, is that quote in your sig real, SFF?

 

It is very real

[Spudboy]

All the prospect hating members, stop what you're doing and read this:

 

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/red-sox/content/20141118-as-prospects-struggle-across-baseball-players-mentality-matters-more-than-ever.ece

 

That was a good read. One thing that occurred to me while reading the article is that the examples used by the big league execs were both brought up to MLB with very little time spent at AAA. One player raked in 250 AB and was deemed "ready". This speaks to my point that players like XB, JBJ, Vasquez, etc., were promoted too soon. Maybe JBJ has spent more time in AAA in total. In any case, a full season at AAA is probably a good idea. If they struggle, let them stay there and work it out. There must be volumes of info on all prospects with laptops and devices in hand for every scout. That can't help when the kid comes up and the big league teams know what to throw him.

 

Still, at some point a young hitter must face consistently superior pitching when he is promoted to the bigs. The talented and smart ones adjust. The dumb ones like Bradley and Middlebrooks don't.

[BornToRun]

It is very real

Well, that's just horrifying.

[Spudboy]

Well, that's just horrifying.

 

Not really. Fred is obsessed with the failure of Bradley and the slow progress of XB. Trading both would seem rash and even stupid unless the return was really good.

 

We all have to lower our expectations ( as the PJ article suggests ) for prospects and allow them more time. XB should be fine sooner rather than latter. Bradley, who knows?

[User Name]

All the prospect hating members, stop what you're doing and read this:

 

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/red-sox/content/20141118-as-prospects-struggle-across-baseball-players-mentality-matters-more-than-ever.ece

 

You're screaming at the walls here.

[dupree]

Report out now that Phillies are checking into the character back grounds of Matt Barnes, Mookie Betts, and Christian Vasquez.

 

People heads are about to explode!!!

 

If thats the haul for Hamels my question is who is next year's starting catcher?

[User Name]

Due diligence.

[seabeachfred]

Not really. Fred is obsessed with the failure of Bradley and the slow progress of XB. Trading both would seem rash and even stupid unless the return was really good.

 

We all have to lower our expectations ( as the PJ article suggests ) for prospects and allow them more time. XB should be fine sooner rather than latter. Bradley, who knows?

 

Spud, you are mostly right but not quite to the finish line. Yes, Bradley was a total failure and to me he is a bust in Boston. He might do better in a NL park with less pressure but his batting mechanics are horrible and from what has come down the pike the past few months he was very stubborn about listening to coaches who were trying to get him to alter his swing and body movement. He needs to go PERIOD!!!!!! He is done as a hitter in Boston, or in his case, a non hitter. As for Bogaerts, my criticism of him was his woeful batting with RISP. He was worse than pathetic, and if you and others remember I said he was a potential choker as soon as I got back from that debacle against the Brewers in the 2014 Home Opening Series. It was so easy to see that even fans with an average eye for watching players perform could see it.....it was so damned obvious. Batting with no one on he looked loose and had free hand and arm movement. With runners on base he was fidgeting in the box, rolling his hands and wrists and it looked like he was gripping the bat like a vise. All the signs of a choker.

 

We also saw that when Cherington panicked and signed Drew, the most disastrous move of the disastrous season, Bogey fell apart completely at the bat, in the field and on the bases. It could have been that he simply wasn't really ready for the Bigs and everyone from ownership to fandom got a false impression by his rather impressive performance in the 2013 Playoffs. Evidentally we all missed something, but the test for him will come the first month or two of next season. If he gets off to a slow start and we see a plethora of runners left on base, trouble in the field, and a disjointed player going through another tailspin it will be a very red flag that this guy is a rhinestone and not a gem. If OTOH, he looks like he gained some valuable experience through his tough 2014 season and is playing up to his hype then you will see me announce a very sincere and apologetic Mea Culpa. Hope it's the latter.

[sk7326]

That was a good read. One thing that occurred to me while reading the article is that the examples used by the big league execs were both brought up to MLB with very little time spent at AAA. One player raked in 250 AB and was deemed "ready". This speaks to my point that players like XB, JBJ, Vasquez, etc., were promoted too soon. Maybe JBJ has spent more time in AAA in total. In any case, a full season at AAA is probably a good idea. If they struggle, let them stay there and work it out. There must be volumes of info on all prospects with laptops and devices in hand for every scout. That can't help when the kid comes up and the big league teams know what to throw him.

 

Still, at some point a young hitter must face consistently superior pitching when he is promoted to the bigs. The talented and smart ones adjust. The dumb ones like Bradley and Middlebrooks don't.

 

I think the question of rash promotion has to come down to the kid (and the org who understands their kids - hopefully). Bradley had more to learn at AAA - just cleaning approach, not trying to take and rake - but so much of what Boston did on that front felt like GMing by sports radio caller. What Bogaerts needed to learn (and Betts inevitably will have to as well) is only stuff that big league pitching can teach by fire. Yes there is defense for both to work on, but the Red Sox' best defensive coaching (as is the case with many teams) is with the big club.

Edited November 18, 2014 by sk7326

[sk7326]

Report out now that Phillies are checking into the character back grounds of Matt Barnes, Mookie Betts, and Christian Vasquez.

 

People heads are about to explode!!!

 

If thats the haul for Hamels my question is who is next year's starting catcher?

 

All guys who could be on a Hamels list. Not all of them clearly, but perhaps one. As for the latter question, my guess is take a plunge on a Geo Soto and then wait for Swihart (hopefully).

[Palodios]

Hamels is looking like he will just cost way too much. 110 million and 3 top prospects, for a guy who has tons of miles on his arm and no AL experience seems crazy. If the Red Sox trade Xander or CV, they're going to need to pay players to replace SS or C, which won't be cheap either.

 

I see absolutely no reason to trade for Hamels at that price, when the Sox could just pay 150 for Lester or 180 for Scherzer.

[dupree]

Hamels is looking like he will just cost way too much. 110 million and 3 top prospects, for a guy who has tons of miles on his arm and no AL experience seems crazy. If the Red Sox trade Xander or CV, they're going to need to pay players to replace SS or C, which won't be cheap either.

 

I see absolutely no reason to trade for Hamels at that price, when the Sox could just pay 150 for Lester or 180 for Scherzer.

 

I say even with a trade for Hamels the Sox will still sign Lester at 120m+. It's not an either or, its what they plan on doing to have two top of the line starters. If they don't and just trade for Hamels and get other starters from the scrap heap then fans will be pissed.

[Palodios]

It's not an either or, its what they plan on doing to have two top of the line starters.

 

 

Yes, it is an either or. Either Hamels/Lester, Scherzer/Lester or Hamels/Scherzer. If they're going to have to pay 110 million + 3 top prospects, why not save the prospects and pay a little extra for the free agent?

[sk7326]

Hamels is looking like he will just cost way too much. 110 million and 3 top prospects, for a guy who has tons of miles on his arm and no AL experience seems crazy. If the Red Sox trade Xander or CV, they're going to need to pay players to replace SS or C, which won't be cheap either.

 

I see absolutely no reason to trade for Hamels at that price, when the Sox could just pay 150 for Lester or 180 for Scherzer.

 

I am not sure Hamels would cost all of them. The scouting story indicates due diligence across the board. I'd hope the Sox did not look at it as a 3 for 1 (or at least THAT 3 for 1).

[iortiz]

Regardless the names, they have to sign 2 top pitchers. I'd go for Shields and Lester and call it offseason.

[dupree]

Yes, it is an either or. Either Hamels/Lester, Scherzer/Lester or Hamels/Scherzer. If they're going to have to pay 110 million + 3 top prospects, why not save the prospects and pay a little extra for the free agent?

I agree. It would make more sense to just sign two free agents and leave an unproven pitcher in the AL of Hamels and just sign to free agents. Either way they are going to add a ton of payroll to get their two elite pitchers. I said in the start of the offseason they should just sign Lester and Shields and call it an offseason. But I think they will do that? No I think they will sign Sandoval and only get one elite pitcher and then try to sell the fans that we are looking to the future and let the young pitchers have slots even with the horrible season of the position prospects this year. I think instead of Pablo they should be focusing on pitching more. But maybe they are and it just hasn't leaked to the media yet.

[iortiz]

Yes, it is an either or. Either Hamels/Lester, Scherzer/Lester or Hamels/Scherzer. If they're going to have to pay 110 million + 3 top prospects, why not save the prospects and pay a little extra for the free agent?

 

Hadn't read this, but totally agree.

[a700hitter]

Red Sox Make Offer To Jon Lester

By Jeff Todd [November 19, 2014 at 7:29am CST]

The Red Sox have an offer on the table to free agent lefty Jon Lester, according to a report from Gordon Edes of ESPNBoston.com. Lester is expected to take his time considering the proposal, and still has several other clubs with significant interest to explore

so, they are going to give Lester the opportunity to shop our offer and get a higher bif from the Cubs or Yankees. That'snot smart.

[Bellhorn04]

so, they are going to give Lester the opportunity to shop our offer and get a higher bif from the Cubs or Yankees. That'snot smart.

 

What approach do you think they should have used?

[a700hitter]

What approach do you think they should have used?

I would have gone one of two ways. I'd have had a meeting and not made an offer, but asked that he meet with us after he had gone shopping, or I would have made him a very strong market value offer and given hin 24 hours to decide. I would not have given him an offer to shop.

[Palodios]

I would have gone one of two ways. I'd have had a meeting and not made an offer, but asked that he meet with us after he had gone shopping, or I would have made him a very strong market value offer and given hin 24 hours to decide. I would not have given him an offer to shop.

 

It seems that the Yankees use a take-it-or-leave-it approach, whereas the Red Sox use a "here's an offer, think it over" approach, and it usually bites them in the ass.

 

The problem here is that the Red Sox need to slow-play Lester here. Trading him hurt the relationship, and they need to treat him with respect, and continue to leave the door open for him. Rumor is, the offer will be somewhere between 120-130, and he needs to give Boston a discount, so that is part of the negotiation here.

[sk7326]

so, they are going to give Lester the opportunity to shop our offer and get a higher bif from the Cubs or Yankees. That'snot smart.

 

Frankly it's not really their call. Unless they offered Lester 6/170 or something, any offer was going to be facing competition. He's a grown man with a lot of people wanting to offer him a gig.

[a700hitter]

Frankly it's not really their call. Unless they offered Lester 6/170 or something, any offer was going to be facing competition. He's a grown man with a lot of people wanting to offer him a gig.

Of course it is their call regarding how they make an offer.