2015 rotation?

[a700hitter]

Sorry, am I missing something? How is 2/5 being Buch and Workman "pretty great?" They are awful. Kelly has taken a big step back this year.

Maybe if the other 2 are Lester and Scherzer.

[Station 13]

Maybe if the other 2 are Lester and Scherzer.

 

That be great. It should ease De la Rosa, and others. Clay Buccholz should be gone.

[seabeachfred]

To be fair to Buch, he has been forced into this position of leading the rotation, and we all know he's not a leader type or cut out for it. We shouldn't get pissed that he won't step up, because he's just not that kind of guy. And really, it hardly matters much for the rest of the season.

 

Yet Larry Luchintzyino called him our "ace in waiting". Is there anyone out there who still doubts that LL is a cancer to the team and needs to be locked in his office and out of baseball operations.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

Yet Larry Luchintzyino called him our "ace in waiting". Is there anyone out there who still doubts that LL is a cancer to the team and needs to be locked in his office and out of baseball operations.

 

Wasn't he part of the ownership that just won a World Series?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but I just saw Lester's presser, and something he said kind of jogged my memory a bit and something makes a lot more sense now. He said "The Red Sox were really good to me in the good times and bad"

 

I wonder if he's got a soft spot in his heart for the Sox because of how they treated him when he was beating cancer. That's a life altering event that makes you reprioritize some things in life. Not saying that's why he was willing to take a discount, but I can see him having just an absolute enormous amount of respect for the Red Sox from that. It's not just a normal draft-mlb player-free agency type of relationship that they had. It was much, much deeper than that. You go through something like what Lester went through, it's a relationship you'll do whatever you can to keep going.

 

After thinking about all this, I'm 100% sure Lester is coming back. They have the parameters set out for the deal. He'll get signed before Christmas by the Sox.

[BigPapi]

I just had a question for anyone who knows the answer. I can't really find a consensus answer online. Does Henry Owens project as an ace, 2 guy, or middle of the rotation?

[Palodios]

After thinking about all this, I'm 100% sure Lester is coming back. They have the parameters set out for the deal. He'll get signed before Christmas by the Sox.

 

Want to hear something crazy? Lester was in this organization longer than any other player, including David Ortiz, having been drafted months before Ortiz signed a free agent contract with the Red Sox. I forget about that.

 

The whole situation seems surreal. I can't believe he is gone.

 

Lester was a high school draftee, so he basically graduated high school, and spent the next 12 years of his life with the Red Sox. He's been through cancer, a Boston tragedy, and two World Series (and a third while in the organization). He very clearly wants to be here. John Henry personally said goodbye. Ortiz tweeted that he believes he's coming back. The Red Sox have a very clear need at SP1 and plenty of money to spare.

 

Ben's strategy hasn't always worked out, but he's figured out the best way to get value for everyone and everything. I would not be surprised at all if this was orchestrated.

[reYoukilis]

Crossed my mind. Let Lester take a vacation from this crap season.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I just had a question for anyone who knows the answer. I can't really find a consensus answer online. Does Henry Owens project as an ace, 2 guy, or middle of the rotation?

 

Everything I've read projects him as a #3 with a ceiling of a #2. Does not project to be an ace, but you never know.

[BigPapi]

Everything I've read projects him as a #3 with a ceiling of a #2. Does not project to be an ace, but you never know.

 

Alright thank you. I've read reports of him being a specialist out of the bull pen, a 3 man, an ace, a 2 man. 3 with a ceiling of two seems good.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

Was it just me, or did Lester look less than pleased to hold up his A's uniform in the intro they did?

I realize that I may be making more of it than it is. We all want Lester back and things like that take on a larger importance than what it actually is sometimes. (It could have been Jet-Lag for all I know.)

[Behindenemylines]

1. Lester or trade for a young #1 (The Sox have the chips)

2. Sign Shields (He has had success in AL East and would replace what Lackey did)

3. Buchholz (Hopefully they get him back to where he is was early 2013)

4. An what ever two young pitchers emerge

5. Save $$$$ if you need to go get someone during the 2015 season

[Spudboy]

I doubt that the Sox will rely on two or three prospect pitchers to fill the rotation in 2015.

 

Ben has said as much that he will be looking to get pitching in the off season and it will probably be two starters and one or two relief arms.

 

I have no confidence that Lester will return. I think the Sox will most likely look for either younger and or less costly options. Most probably mid-tier guys.

[d-money]

I wanted lester to retired in a sox jersey.Stinks!! I need to see more of these young pitchers before anything is settled.Webster pitches today and he has issues with control.

[sk7326]

I doubt that the Sox will rely on two or three prospect pitchers to fill the rotation in 2015.

 

Ben has said as much that he will be looking to get pitching in the off season and it will probably be two starters and one or two relief arms.

 

I have no confidence that Lester will return. I think the Sox will most likely look for either younger and or less costly options. Most probably mid-tier guys.

 

One key will be if the Sox have a bottom ten record (good chance). Signing Lester becomes much more possible if the Sox don't have to surrender the first rounder.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I doubt that the Sox will rely on two or three prospect pitchers to fill the rotation in 2015.

 

Ben has said as much that he will be looking to get pitching in the off season and it will probably be two starters and one or two relief arms.

 

I have no confidence that Lester will return. I think the Sox will most likely look for either younger and or less costly options. Most probably mid-tier guys.

 

So, question for you, because this seems to be a pretty common theory (that they won't get Lester back).

 

The Sox have around $70mm to spend in the offseason. I think the thing we can all agree on is that the FO isn't going to go into 2015 with a light payroll after coming in last (or 4th) in 2014.

 

You're set at C (Vazquez), 1B (Nap, Craig), 2B (Pedey, Betts), SS (Bogaerts, Marrero), 3B (Bogaerts, WMB, Cecchini), LF (Craig, Betts, Cespedes), CF (Bradley, Betts), RF (Vic, Cespedes, Betts), and DH (Ortiz).

 

You've got 2 of the 5 SP slots filled with Buch & Kelley.

 

So where are they going to spend that $70mm? Thats why I think they give Lester the money. And then they'll give probably another pitcher some money too.

 

They can't go into 2015 with a low payroll AND no ace or they will get crucified. And they don't have anywhere else to allocate that money, and its $70mm. Hell they could go spend $25mm on Lester, $25mm on Scherzer, and $5mm on Ross, and still have $15mm set aside for some bullpen arms.

[Northern Star]

I don't think we're as set positionally as you claim - you've got a lot of doubling up of names there, and X, WMB and JBJ are all suspect bats - that's a third of the lineup right there. Can't count on Victorino for anything but getting injured.

[a700hitter]

Middlebrooks is not going to be a consistent major leaguer. Big power, but not a good hitter at all.

[seabeachfred]

Wasn't he part of the ownership that just won a World Series?

 

The same ownership that was too cheap to pay Lester while we lost our ace, refused to pay Ellsbury and told us that Bradley would be more than an adequate replacement, and the same ownership that has us at the bottom of he barrel this year in the AL East. Yes, that ownership.

[a700hitter]

The same ownership that was too cheap to pay Lester while we lost our ace, refused to pay Ellsbury and told us that Bradley would be more than an adequate replacement, and the same ownership that has us at the bottom of he barrel this year in the AL East. Yes, that ownership.

The same ownership that will finish in last place twice in the last 3 seasons. That's something they haven't done since 1933.

[Palodios]

The same ownership that will finish in last place twice in the last 3 seasons. That's something they haven't done since 1933.

 

I understand. You're unhappy about a rebuilding year. I am too. But there is a reason why this team has fielded very good teams. The ownership is committed to both being competitive, and being competitive in the future. Sometimes things don't work out, and we get years like this one. Sometimes it does, and we get years like last year.

 

But here's the thing. This organization does make decisions that do not work. However, most of their decisions are not long term decisions. They get to mulligan a bad team for a good team the following year. We're unhappy with seeing no playoff baseball for a year, but ownership works on making sure that the next year is a different year, instead of the same old s***. Look at how the Phillies handled the deadline last year -- stuck with the same aging pricey contracts, and nothing but mediocrity in the future.

 

The Red Sox have options. They'll sign a significant starter, trade for a significant starter, pull in a few bullpen pieces, and piece together a real offense next year. They're too stacked with talent and money to be mediocre for long.

[a700hitter]

I understand. You're unhappy about a rebuilding year. I am too. But there is a reason why this team has fielded very good teams. The ownership is committed to both being competitive, and being competitive in the future. Sometimes things don't work out, and we get years like this one. Sometimes it does, and we get years like last year.

 

But here's the thing. This organization does make decisions that do not work. However, most of their decisions are not long term decisions. They get to mulligan a bad team for a good team the following year. We're unhappy with seeing no playoff baseball for a year, but ownership works on making sure that the next year is a different year, instead of the same old s***. Look at how the Phillies handled the deadline last year -- stuck with the same aging pricey contracts, and nothing but mediocrity in the future.

 

The Red Sox have options. They'll sign a significant starter, trade for a significant starter, pull in a few bullpen pieces, and piece together a real offense next year. They're too stacked with talent and money to be mediocre for long.

I am not unhappy about not seeing playoff baseball this season. I never expected that this would be a playoff team. What has transpired has been far worse than missing the playoffs. We have had almost no meaningful baseball since opening day. Beyond that, the team has played embarrassingly poorly and they have been boring to watch. They put out a team that has been so uninteresting and amateurish that i actually turned to boring soccer for entertainment. This hadn't been rebuilding. This was an imploding collapse.

[reYoukilis]

People forget that one of those seasons was a WS win! I dont say that for people to live off the past but to remember that you cant just trip over that thing to get it, youve got to be good enough. It seems to me that people look at this season as the more telling season and that last season was a fluke. Why is that? It seems to me that people should look at the dichotemy between the two seasons as clues in how to right the ship.

 

I get tired of these cranky Red Sox fans that make it such a "tough town to play in", personally I think you do more harm than good. First its demanding Tito get fired and whod we get? Bobby Valentine. Now there doesnt seem to be any memory of last years WS win. People on here think theyre geniuses because they look at stats and say whose doing badly, wow good job. What you dont do is offer a solution and/or if you do, theres no evidence that it would work so just gloat at your stat watching skills. Some of us believe in the process and want to see it through before the "tough Fenway crowd" want heads on the chopping block.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

The same ownership that was too cheap to pay Lester while we lost our ace, refused to pay Ellsbury and told us that Bradley would be more than an adequate replacement, and the same ownership that has us at the bottom of he barrel this year in the AL East. Yes, that ownership.

The same ownership that will finish in last place twice in the last 3 seasons. *That's something they haven't done since 1933.

 

 

 

 

 

We did win 3 WS titles in 10 years, right? Just checking.

 

I am not saying that they make perfect moves, but to discount their success as the aberration is unfair. There have been some stinking years in between the successful ones. Yes. There have been some really great years in there too. Some on here want to act like the Red Sox won despite the FO, not because of it. I don't know which it is, as I don't have knowledge of what goes on in the FO inner workings. If you do, please enlighten us. Please offer some proof why Henry/Werner/Lucchino are only responsible for the bad years.

[sk7326]

The same ownership that was too cheap to pay Lester while we lost our ace, refused to pay Ellsbury and told us that Bradley would be more than an adequate replacement, and the same ownership that has us at the bottom of he barrel this year in the AL East. Yes, that ownership.

 

and won 3 titles in 10 years ... the best era in post-1920 Red Sox history ... by a really long way. This year was a lot of bad luck, and management not committing to the kids they were committed to committing to. This is nothing that can't be fixed quickly.

[a700hitter]

People forget that one of those seasons was a WS win! I dont say that for people to live off the past but to remember that you cant just trip over that thing to get it, youve got to be good enough. It seems to me that people look at this season as the more telling season and that last season was a fluke. Why is that? It seems to me that people should look at the dichotemy between the two seasons as clues in how to right the ship.

 

I get tired of these cranky Red Sox fans that make it such a "tough town to play in", personally I think you do more harm than good. First its demanding Tito get fired and whod we get? Bobby Valentine. Now there doesnt seem to be any memory of last years WS win. People on here think theyre geniuses because they look at stats and say whose doing badly, wow good job. What you dont do is offer a solution and/or if you do, theres no evidence that it would work so just gloat at your stat watching skills. Some of us believe in the process and want to see it through before the "tough Fenway crowd" want heads on the chopping block.

Lol! I don't think the fans on the internet make it a difficult town to play in. No one pays attention to that. What has always made Boston a tough place to play is the media coverage. Print media was brutal to Ted Williams, Yaz and Rice. They murdered managers. Believe it or not, they are not nearly as nasty today as they used to be. There is much more coverage today and more intrusion on their privacy in the clubhouse, but for the most part the coverage is benign. The fans at Fenway are great. I can't remember one of our guys in uniform getting booed, not even a psycho like Carl Everett. So, stop it with all this nonsense.^

 

Every year stands on its own. That's the way it works. They did a great job last year and they got kudos from everyone. This year was a total implosion and they deserve the blame. Everything else is just a rationalization or excuse. Bad luck? Please. If we are going to attribute this season in part to bad luck, then maybe some of last year was good luck? The good luck last year did not turn a 95 loss team into a 95 win team just as this years bad luck didn't turn a 95 win team into a 95 loss team. The critics didn't make this team suck. This was a terribly constructed team. Last year's World Championship matters to the extent that this FO crew gets a mulligan for this atrocious performance. If they had been eliminated by Tampa in the ALDS, the FO would be getting cleaned out after this season along with the roster.

Edited August 3, 2014 by a700hitter

[a700hitter]

We did win 3 WS titles in 10 years, right? Just checking.

 

I am not saying that they make perfect moves, but to discount their success as the aberration is unfair. There have been some stinking years in between the successful ones. Yes. There have been some really great years in there too. Some on here want to act like the Red Sox won despite the FO, not because of it. I don't know which it is, as I don't have knowledge of what goes on in the FO inner workings. If you do, please enlighten us. Please offer some proof why Henry/Werner/Lucchino are only responsible for the bad years.

Other than Jacko, no one is calling the good years an aberration. If you want to talk about how to fix this team join in. There has been a lot of discussion about that. If you want to whine that the FO doesn't get blamed for this year, I am not interested. They get they credit when the team succeeds and the blame when they lose. That's a given and not up for a debate.

[Palodios]

If you want to whine that the FO doesn't get blamed for this year, I am not interested. They get they credit when the team succeeds and the blame when they lose. That's a given and not up for a debate.

 

My argument wasn't that the FO shouldn't take the blame. They put together an awful team that is going to lose a lot of games.

 

However, I am able to give them credit for making hard decisions for the good of the long term future of the team. This team looks a lot like the championship Marlins 2003 team to many, but the difference is that the Red Sox are going to go out the following year and spend tons of money and trade some prospects next year. We all expected the FO to be cowards and just sit on the current roster, but they did the right thing for the team, even if it will cost them wins, and butts in the seats.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

Other than Jacko, no one is calling the good years an aberration. If you want to talk about how to fix this team join in. There has been a lot of discussion about that. If you want to whine that the FO doesn't get blamed for this year, I am not interested. They get they credit when the team succeeds and the blame when they lose. That's a given and not up for a debate.

 

I wasn't whining. I was pointing out that this ownership group seems to know how to build a team that will win. I think it's a little premature for anyone to say that Henry/Werner/Lucchino screwed everything up since we are a bad team this year. Is there anyone here who doesn't think that the ownership will field a better team next spring than what started this spring? I just happen to think that they have been pretty successful at what they are doing. Does it always work? Obviously not, but on the whole, it's been working pretty good.

[reYoukilis]

Lol! I don't think the fans on the internet make it a difficult town to play in. No one pays attention to that. What has always made Boston a tough place to play is the media coverage. Print media was brutal to Ted Williams, Yaz and Rice. They murdered managers. Believe it or not, they are not nearly as nasty today as they used to be. There is much more coverage today and more intrusion on their privacy in the clubhouse, but for the most part the coverage is benign. The fans at Fenway are great. I can't remember one of our guys in uniform getting booed, not even a psycho like Carl Everett. So, stop it with all this nonsense.^

 

Every year stands on its own. That's the way it works. They did a great job last year and they got kudos from everyone. This year was a total implosion and they deserve the blame. Everything else is just a rationalization or excuse. Bad luck? Please. If we are going to attribute this season in part to bad luck, then maybe some of last year was good luck? The good luck last year did not turn a 95 loss team into a 95 win team just as this years bad luck didn't turn a 95 win team into a 95 loss team. The critics didn't make this team suck. This was a terribly constructed team. Last year's World Championship matters to the extent that this FO crew gets a mulligan for this atrocious performance. If they had been eliminated by Tampa in the ALDS, the FO would be getting cleaned out after this season along with the roster.

Every year should stand on its own and if criticism is all that comes of it then fine but many of Cheringtons decisions are understandable though they failed. Some of them arent Ill grant you, the late acquisition of Drew being one, but giving JBJ a good chance to succeed was worth a try considering his D. When you are trying to rebuild a team through the farm system patience is required. You have to give some time to see if they are going to be good or not and a couple weeks may not be enough time, thats just true. And yes maybe you ruin a whole season but hopefully it works out in the end.