Would you Trade Xander Bogaerts for Giancarlo Stanton?

[vjcsmoke]

It might take a couple of prospects added on the Red Sox side, but the main principals in the trade would be Bogaerts and Stanton. The Red Sox have a desperate need for an elite outfielder who hits with power. Stanton is a 30/100 player. Bogaerts however plays a more valuable position at SS (which he is not playing now atm), and potentially could be a better player than Stanton 3-5 years down the road. But Stanton is already that star player right now. So put yourself in Ben Cherington's shoes, do you do the trade?

 

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/04dbaf05a3df879bc89226d2511bf2c11533a2d5/c=0-249-1926-1699&r=x513&c=680x510/local/-/media/USATODAY/USATODAY/2013/09/03/1378257172000-XanderBogaertsMiLB.jpg vs http://lownaway.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/gio-stanton.jpg

 

Red Sox Bogaerts-Stanton speculation:

http://www.csnne.com/boston-red-sox/buckley-i-would-give-bogaerts-stanton

Edited July 13, 2014 by vjcsmoke

[BigPapi]

Yes even though stanton has been slumping lately and power has dipped this month. I would assume he gets pitched around a lot. Edited July 13, 2014 by BigPapi

[a700hitter]

In a heartbeat.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Nope. And I love Stanton.

 

6 years of a power hitting SS at league min/arbitration > 2 years of Stanton. If you want him, work out a deal not involving Bogaerts. Otherwise, sign him when he hits FA. He'll be a very young FA since he came up so early.

[a700hitter]

Nope. And I love Stanton.

 

6 years of a power hitting SS at league min/arbitrationp > 2 years of Stanton. If you want him, work out a deal not involving Bogaerts. Otherwise, sign him when he hits FA. He'll be a very young FA since he came up so early.

Only because you are a very knowledgeable fan will I refrain from saying that your refusal would be crazy.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yes, and I'd say it before the words came out of the Miami GM's mouth. The reasons are many, but most of all, you're talking about a 24 yr old generational talent who has been raking in the bigs for 5 yrs vs a 3B in a SS clothing who has sucked this yr. And, the guys are less than 3 yrs apart in age, so it isn't like you are getting a guy on the back 9 of his career. Stanton has hit 138HR before his 25th birthday (which isn't until the winter, BTW). That's ARod territory, and he was cheating. With the steroid limitations and investigations, you are seeing a massive decline in offense and power. Well, Stanton won't see that, as I have said, he is a generational talent. Put his RH bat in Fenway and he'll hit 50HR a season. This isn't even a question, IMO.

[jacksonianmarch]

And, BTW, the likelihood is that Stanton isn't hitting FA, IMO. My bet is he is dealt to a major contender and is extended on a ridiculous contract

[a700hitter]

I would put this in the pipedream category.

[Northern Star]

What's the future ceiling of both at this point in time, in relation to cost? No, I would not make the trade.

[Spudboy]

Yes. But Stanton is going nowhere now. Miami will get a huge haul for him when it happens.

[BSN07]

No I would not and the Sox aren't going to either imo. Stanton is just gonna end up costing more $ then what they are going to be willing to go on extension wise(can anyone honestly see them giving out a 10yr/200M+ deal?). Stanton has also missed significant time the last couple years. That's a pretty big ? too when considering his price tag.

 

Bogaerts is just one of those guys at this point in time I don't feel comfortable trading really for anyone other then maybe Trout. Maybe Harper but idk how many years of control he has left. His ceiling is just too high to risk it. But that's just me. If they wanted Stanton I think they could get a deal done with out Bogaerts anyways. Especially f the sell off this TDL.

[a700hitter]

This will not happn, because whtever is left of the Marlins fanbase would desert them if they did this. This will never get done, because it is not enough for the Marlins to get in return. It is a pipedream.

[Behindenemylines]

Nope. And I love Stanton.

 

6 years of a power hitting SS at league min/arbitration > 2 years of Stanton. If you want him, work out a deal not involving Bogaerts. Otherwise, sign him when he hits FA. He'll be a very young FA since he came up so early.

 

Stanton won't make it to be a FA. The Fish will trade him before he walks, and who ever gets him will give up a lot so they will sign him long term.

[Palodios]

Bogaerts? No.

 

Lester/Koji in a three-team trade that pulls back prospects...

Using those prospects and Doubront/WMB, and one of the non-Owens pitching prospects for Stanton? Absolutely.

[SoxFanForsyth]

A better question is "Would you trade Owens, Swihart, & Betts for Stanton"?

 

And the answer is still no. I would give two of those 3 plus a guy like Ranaudo or Webster.

 

But Owens, Swihart, and Betts were all top 15 guys on the midseason top 50. (Betts wasn't ranked because he was promoted, but BA writers said he would have been #12). Swihart was #14, Owens #15.

[jacksonianmarch]

Then you wont get the player. Why does everyone pretend like Stanton isn't worth the unproven rookies? He's 24 and is a major power player in a powerless league.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Then you wont get the player. Why does everyone pretend like Stanton isn't worth the unproven rookies? He's 24 and is a major power player in a powerless league.

 

Not sure how a deal of Swihart, Owens, and Ranaudo wouldn't get Stanton?

 

That's 2 top 15 prospects. The best LHP prospect and the best C prospect in baseball, plus a guy with a 2.62 ERA in AAA right now. That's a better package than any other team can or will throw at the Marlins. The only teams that have better top 20 prospects are the Cubs and Twins, and they're not dishing Addison Russell, Kris Bryant, Javier Baez, Buxton, or Sano.

 

So yeah, the Sox can get either A) get Stanton for the above deal or sign him as a FA as the Marlins aren't trading him because that offer would not be beaten by any other team.

[Spitball]

Superstars are fun to have, but they don't necessarily equate to great teams. The times are changing, and I see teams building from their farm system and keeping their own players through the affordable years as the smart way to go. Boston won last year after shedding big contracts. Oakland has the greatest run differential in baseball with a bunch of relatively unknown players.

 

Ellsbury and Choo are outfielders who have signed huge contracts and have not lifted their teams. Stanton might be better, but he will also cost more. He also has a history of injuries.

 

I'd keep Bogaerts and build responsibly.

[a700hitter]

Superstars are fun to have, but they don't necessarily equate to great teams. The times are changing, and I see teams building from their farm system and keeping their own players through the affordable years as the smart way to go. Boston won last year after shedding big contracts. Oakland has the greatest run differential in baseball with a bunch of relatively unknown players.

 

Ellsbury and Choo are outfielders who have signed huge contracts and have not lifted their teams. Stanton might be better, but he will also cost more. He also has a history of injuries.

 

I'd keep Bogaerts and build responsibly.

Cespoedes and Donaldson are legit stars and the A's have a pretty good supporting cast with Crisp, Lowrie and Moss. Not a bunch of nobodies. Cripes, other than Ortiz, Pedroia and Napoli, we have a bunch of nobodies.

[a700hitter]

One way or another, this thread should provide some good laughs in 2 or 3 years. Stanton is a legit powerhouse star. Take him out of that pitcher friendly ballpark and he will provide real fireworks. XB doesn't have Stanton's ceiling. As for the premium position argument, it remains to be seen if he will be a good SS. They had to move him to 3rd this season. I just hope that when we revisit this thread in a couple of years that Stanton is not launching rockets for the Yankees.

[Palodios]

The Yanks don't have the prospects to trade for him, and their outfield already has two 4+ year contracts in it. The timing doesn't seem right for them, hopefully.

[seabeachfred]

I take it most of you think that Bogaerts will get better and better as the years progress. I have some real doubts about that. I remember saying back in April that this guy could be a choker and caught some hell for it. But the facts are there....He does not hit with RISP; he does not hit hit in the clutch and he has looked like crap since his move to third base. It could be with experience that he gains more confidence in himself and learns the pitchers better, but it is also possible that his inability to hit when it counts could turn out to be an albatross around his neck and the team's. As for the trade involving Stanton I would do it within two shakes of a monkey's ass, but I agree with my friend 700 Hitter....the trade will never happen, at least for us.

[sk7326]

I take it most of you think that Bogaerts will get better and better as the years progress. I have some real doubts about that. I remember saying back in April that this guy could be a choker and caught some hell for it. But the facts are there....He does not hit with RISP; he does not hit hit in the clutch and he has looked like crap since his move to third base. It could be with experience that he gains more confidence in himself and learns the pitchers better, but it is also possible that his inability to hit when it counts could turn out to be an albatross around his neck and the team's. As for the trade involving Stanton I would do it within two shakes of a monkey's ass, but I agree with my friend 700 Hitter....the trade will never happen, at least for us.

 

Any life decision made on a 400 PAs for a kid who still needed a fake id this time last year is highly speculative. The team has not hand strong hands with their guys - but as Bradley is showing lately, strong hands is a good thing. Clutchy McClutherson was no issue when X was starting in the biggest games of his life - and the advanced at-bats that came with it. He will get better, but you have to trust the evaluation.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I take it most of you think that Bogaerts will get better and better as the years progress. I have some real doubts about that. I remember saying back in April that this guy could be a choker and caught some hell for it. But the facts are there....He does not hit with RISP; he does not hit hit in the clutch and he has looked like crap since his move to third base. It could be with experience that he gains more confidence in himself and learns the pitchers better, but it is also possible that his inability to hit when it counts could turn out to be an albatross around his neck and the team's. As for the trade involving Stanton I would do it within two shakes of a monkey's ass, but I agree with my friend 700 Hitter....the trade will never happen, at least for us.

 

Oye.

 

You cannot possibly be seriously judging a player based on this few of games. You have to give him a chance to adjust to major league pitching. The move to 3B probably took some focus away from his hitting and we both agreed it was a bad move to sign Drew. But by all means, it's absurd to even have a sliver of doubt on Bogaerts. The kid is 21 years old man. He's going to be a superstar. He's going through an adjustment period and it's not going to be long until you eat crow on these statements just like you had to do with RDLR.

 

You need to give prospects more time to adjust. They're not going to all come out and be superstars right off the bat.

[BigPapi]

One way or another, this thread should provide some good laughs in 2 or 3 years. Stanton is a legit powerhouse star. Take him out of that pitcher friendly ballpark and he will provide real fireworks. XB doesn't have Stanton's ceiling. As for the premium position argument, it remains to be seen if he will be a good SS. They had to move him to 3rd this season. I just hope that when we revisit this thread in a couple of years that Stanton is not launching rockets for the Yankees.

 

 

I agree exactly with you. Xander Bogaerts doesn't have as high a ceiling as a hitter as Stanton. If you want to look at each of their campaigns at 21 years old, they don't even compare. Stanton mashed 34 hrs when he was 21 and hit .262 while xander is hitting in the .230's with only 6 hrs and low rbi's because of his terrible ba with risp. In addition, Xander never absolutely raked at the triple a level. Sure .284 with 9 hrs and a .822 ops is not to shabby at all in pawtucket through 60 games, but it's not eye popping like stanton's numbers were. Before stanton got called up in 2010, he was mashing the ball in triple a. He had a 1.171 ops with 21 hrs and a .313 average through 53 games. Xander never demolished triple a like stanton did. Although I think Xander will turn out to be a very good player, I think Stanton has much more offensive potential than him and is much more proven. When you take into account that xander never absolutely raked in the minors and also take into account that xander is not even an average defender currently, it becomes obvious in my opinion that a xander for stanton trade is a no brainer.

Edited July 15, 2014 by BigPapi

[seabeachfred]

Any life decision made on a 400 PAs for a kid who still needed a fake id this time last year is highly speculative. The team has not hand strong hands with their guys - but as Bradley is showing lately, strong hands is a good thing. Clutchy McClutherson was no issue when X was starting in the biggest games of his life - and the advanced at-bats that came with it. He will get better, but you have to trust the evaluation.

 

Hitting with runners in scoring position is a knack that can come with experience but it can work the other way too. I just presented the here and no. 400 PA's is still a small sample, granted, but the question was whether I would trade him as part of a package for Stanton and my answer is a resounding yes.. As for Bradley, he is showing some improvement but until he gets into the 270's on a consistent basis the jury as far as I'm concerned is out on him, just as it is for Middlebrooks who I still feel is a power hitting infielder we're going to need for our largely powerless team. I never said Bogaerts was going to fail; I did say he might not become the player some people think he will......and that lack of hitting with RISP is still a big red flag with me. We'll just have to wait and see. I also want to see him be sent back to SS and WMB or Cecchini given a full shot on third. I don't want them going to some other team and lighting up the league with homers and base hits while we have weak hitters in the lineup. I want guys in the lineup who can hit.

[seabeachfred]

Oye.

 

You cannot possibly be seriously judging a player based on this few of games. You have to give him a chance to adjust to major league pitching. The move to 3B probably took some focus away from his hitting and we both agreed it was a bad move to sign Drew. But by all means, it's absurd to even have a sliver of doubt on Bogaerts. The kid is 21 years old man. He's going to be a superstar. He's going through an adjustment period and it's not going to be long until you eat crow on these statements just like you had to do with RDLR.

 

You need to give prospects more time to adjust. They're not going to all come out and be superstars right off the bat.

 

Keep this deeply in your mind.....I do NOT shy from admitting when I am wrong about something, a trait that is vacant with a few of my colleagues on this board (not you). You say Bogey is going to be superstar and that's fine. I would like that as well and you may be right, but small sample or not, his inability to hit with RISP is a red flag for me. It isn't that he hasn't done it well; it is that his average under those circumstances is not even in the 150 range.....and that's is a red flag. As for RDLR, he's pitched so well that we was sent down to the minors again, a totally dumb move. Yes, I would love to see the guy become a star with us, but if there is a small sample for Bogaerts, Bradley, WMB and others, it should also be a small sample for Rubby as well. We won't know how these guys are going to emerge until a couple of years from now, but I will say that the Red Sox front office has to get this right....they have to keep the right players and trade the ones that won't be as good. The very worst that can happen is to keep players that aren't as good as the ones we traded away. Mistakes in judging personnel is a killer and Cherington and Co. have made some bad boners in that regard this season.

Edited July 15, 2014 by seabeachfred

[SoxFanForsyth]

Keep this deeply in your mind.....I do NOT shy from admitting when I am wrong about something, a trait that is vacant with a few of my colleagues on this board (not you). You say Bogey is going to be superstar and that's fine. I would like that as well and you may be right, but small sample or not, his inability to hit with RISP is a red flag for me. It isn't that he hasn't done it well; it is that his average under those circumstances is not even in the 150 range.....and that's is a red flag. As for RDLR, he's pitched so well that we was sent down to the minors again, a totally dumb move. Yes, I would love to see the guy become a star with us, but if there is a small sample for Bogaerts, Bradley, WMB and others, it should also be a small sample for Rubby as well. We won't know how these guys are going to emerge until a couple of years from now, but I will say that the Red Sox front office has to get this right....they have to keep the right players and trade the ones that won't be as good. The very worst that can happen is to keep players that aren't as good as the ones we traded away. Mistakes in judging personnel is a killer and Cherington and Co. have made some bad boners in that regard this season.

 

Well let me ask you something. How do you feel about JBJ?

 

Before you answer, let me give you a few stats.

 

1. Since 6/19 (he changed his stance back to his comfortable stance), he's hit .308/.358/.369 over 70 PA.

2. This season, he's hit .297/.370/.438 with RISP.

[seabeachfred]

Well let me ask you something. How do you feel about JBJ?

 

Before you answer, let me give you a few stats.

 

1. Since 6/19 (he changed his stance back to his comfortable stance), he's hit .308/.358/.369 over 70 PA.

2. This season, he's hit .297/.370/.438 with RISP.

 

 

By throwing out some stats for me it is obvious you wanted me to go down the line and agree with you. The fact is he has improved some in the last month or so but that is also a small sample of a hot streak. Let's see how it translates for the rest of the season. As for his hitting with RISP, that is not bad at all and I certainly would rather have him up there in a tight situation than Bogaerts......certainly at least right now.

[Bellhorn04]

Fred, you are the poster boy for Old School.