The rebuild thread.

[d-money]

Cherington better hope these farm guys pan out.Are sox fans gonna be patient?

[Northern Star]

Cherington better hope these farm guys pan out.Are sox fans gonna be patient?

 

Three titles in 10 years....we can afford to be patient.

[BigPapi]

Three titles in 10 years....we can afford to be patient.

 

I never expect a championship. However, when you have big payroll like the red sox and charge ridiculous prices for tickets, you always have to be competitive.

[d-money]

I never expect a championship. However, when you have big payroll like the red sox and charge ridiculous prices for tickets, you always have to be competitive.

 

Same here.Give me some good baseball and at least a record over 500.

[BigPapi]

Same here.Give me some good baseball and at least a record over 500.

 

Exactly. Its always exciting when you have a good team until they get eliminated in the playoffs. When you have a bad team, excitement can be lost for months.

[seabeachfred]

Three titles in 10 years....we can afford to be patient.

 

Three titles in ten seasons is terrific NS but what we're seeing this year is a complete unraveling of what was supposed to be a fine team. Our play and record cannot be acceptable to any Red Sox fan. No, I didn't expect a WS Title last season and was elated when we got one. I also didn't expect a repeat this year either but I expected a better showing than the disgraceful one our team is making this season.

[a700hitter]

Only the farcical 1997 Marlins finished in last place the year before and after their World Championship. Let's not sugar coat this. It is historically bad.

[reYoukilis]

Im in the be-patient camp. Yes this is total suck but that doesnt mean we're not on the right track. All this give me results yesterday attitude could be more harm than good. At least lets see it out, then we'll know. And Im not saying dont make any moves but to give up on XB and JBJ is definitely not the right move. Now Buchholz is another story.

[Palodios]

The year didn't go as planned. The young players slumped and had growing pains. The front office s*** the bed with resigning Lester. Is it bad? Absolutely.

 

However, we need to keep perspective. This isn't like 2011 where all seemed lost. The Red Sox will have plenty of money to spend in 2014. They have plenty of prospects to trade, and plenty of young players who may blossom into superstars. Henry Owens has been utterly unhittable in the minors. Think about this: the worst contract in the organization is Dustin Pedroia.

 

There is a lot to be positive about in this organization. They suck now, but they'll be back next year with a better offense and more balanced bullpen.

[Northern Star]

The year didn't go as planned. The young players slumped and had growing pains. The front office s*** the bed with resigning Lester. Is it bad? Absolutely.

 

However, we need to keep perspective. This isn't like 2011 where all seemed lost. The Red Sox will have plenty of money to spend in 2014. They have plenty of prospects to trade, and plenty of young players who may blossom into superstars. Henry Owens has been utterly unhittable in the minors. Think about this: the worst contract in the organization is Dustin Pedroia.

 

There is a lot to be positive about in this organization. They suck now, but they'll be back next year with a better offense and more balanced bullpen.

 

I am dead set against trading decent prospects for an older "veteran presence." That rarely goes well.

[Palodios]

I am dead set against trading decent prospects for an older "veteran presence." That rarely goes well.

 

Waiting on this team's prospects will take far longer than most of us are willing to wait. Most of the best Red Sox players in recent years were traded to the team from different organizations. Pedro, Varitek, Ortiz, young-Beckett, Schilling, Lowell, Jason Bay. The Red Sox just need to find the right deal.

[a700hitter]

The year didn't go as planned. The young players slumped and had growing pains. The front office s*** the bed with resigning Lester. Is it bad? Absolutely.

 

However, we need to keep perspective. This isn't like 2011 where all seemed lost. The Red Sox will have plenty of money to spend in 2014. They have plenty of prospects to trade, and plenty of young players who may blossom into superstars. Henry Owens has been utterly unhittable in the minors. Think about this: the worst contract in the organization is Dustin Pedroia.

 

There is a lot to be positive about in this organization. They suck now, but they'll be back next year with a better offense and more balanced bullpen.

The World Championship gives Ben a mulligan. Had Will Myers caught the flyball and the Rays had knocked us out of the playoffs in the first round, Ben would be getting his resume ready after his 2 nd sub .500 last place year in 3 years. He'll get another shot next year to right the ship, and he will have freed up payroll to spend. If he makes some good moves, he can turn things around, but I am not buying into this "right path" stuff. I don't have a lot of faith in the long term strategy or capability of the management group.

 

WMB has lost his luster almost entirely and XB and Bradley are not looking like future stars. Maybe they are having growing pains and each of them will be productive players in a year or two, but i think that it is doubtful that Bradley will be a star. I hold out some hope for XB to be a star because he is still very young. I like Vasquez. However, I don't see any core of offensive stars coming anytime soon other than possibly Betts. Do we have a good power hitter in the organization? That is missing, and the Boston Red Sox need a some power to be successful. They will have to go outside for that. Finally, I am not a big believer in the kid starters. I am curious about Renaudo, but if he is going to be a star in the majors, it is going to have to happen soon. They have a lot of work to do, but s***ing up things this badly doesn't give me a lot of faith that their strategy is on track.

[Station 13]

Ranaudo in any other organization would've gotten a chance by now. The Yankees are scraping barrell from Whitney, to Nuno, to anybody that can fill out their rotations. Meanwhile we watch the same s***** performances from Doburont, Buccholz and Peavy. If two of them were replace mid May, we would still be in this race in a s***** division.

[BigPapi]

The World Championship gives Ben a mulligan. Had Will Myers caught the flyball and the Rays had knocked us out of the playoffs in the first round, Ben would be getting his resume ready after his 2 nd sub .500 last place year in 3 years. He'll get another shot next year to right the ship, and he will have freed up payroll to spend. If he makes some good moves, he can turn things around, but I am not buying into this "right path" stuff. I don't have a lot of faith in the long term strategy or capability of the management group.

 

WMB has lost his luster almost entirely and XB and Bradley are not looking like future stars. Maybe they are having growing pains and each of them will be productive players in a year or two, but i think that it is doubtful that Bradley will be a star. I hold out some hope for XB to be a star because he is still very young. I like Vasquez. However, I don't see any core of offensive stars coming anytime soon other than possibly Betts. Do we have a good power hitter in the organization? That is missing, and the Boston Red Sox need a some power to be successful. They will have to go outside for that. Finally, I am not a big believer in the kid starters. I am curious about Renaudo, but if he is going to be a star in the majors, it is going to have to happen soon. They have a lot of work to do, but s***ing up things this badly doesn't give me a lot of faith that their strategy is on track.

 

I agree. The thing is, Xander has never completely dominated in the minors at any level for a good chunk of the season. He was good at portland, but at pawtucket he certainly wasn't tearing the league up. Now I know he's still young and can go from hitting 230 to 300 like brock holt did next year, its very risky to depend on him to be a dominant force in our offense next year. As for Jackie, he was a .270 hitter in triple and double a who just got us really excited over a good spring training last year.Mookie is continuing to tear up pawtucket and only got 10 games up here so you can't say he is a .235 major league hitter obviously. I'd like to see him him and nava in the outfield rather than nava and gomes once the deadline passes.

[Palodios]

The World Championship gives Ben a mulligan. Had Will Myers caught the flyball and the Rays had knocked us out of the playoffs in the first round, Ben would be getting his resume ready after his 2 nd sub .500 last place year in 3 years. He'll get another shot next year to right the ship, and he will have freed up payroll to spend. If he makes some good moves, he can turn things around, but I am not buying into this "right path" stuff. I don't have a lot of faith in the long term strategy or capability of the management group.

 

It seems clear to both of us that the FO got cheap and complacent last offseason. However, the last time the team finished in last place, they signed seven free agents, mostly to big contracts. This organization is committed to building a winning team. Why? Because winning teams make them money, and I believe they will do their due diligence to make more money next year.

 

Finally, I am not a big believer in the kid starters.

Not even Owens? He's been practically untouchable in the minors, and he has been going 7+ innings pretty much every time out.

[Spudboy]

It seems clear to both of us that the FO got cheap and complacent last offseason. However, the last time the team finished in last place, they signed seven free agents, mostly to big contracts. This organization is committed to building a winning team. Why? Because winning teams make them money, and I believe they will do their due diligence to make more money next year.

 

Not even Owens? He's been practically untouchable in the minors, and he has been going 7+ innings pretty much every time out.

 

Good point! Although they certainly botched this year big time. Ultimately, the Sox will do what is necessary to field a competitive team each day. The rich guys that own the team know that this crap won't fly for long and don't want to feel it in their pockets.

 

You are right about Owens. He and Renaudo should be brought up by September at the latest barring injuries or massive decline by either.

[seabeachfred]

Good point! Although they certainly botched this year big time. Ultimately, the Sox will do what is necessary to field a competitive team each day. The rich guys that own the team know that this crap won't fly for long and don't want to feel it in their pockets.

 

You are right about Owens. He and Renaudo should be brought up by September at the latest barring injuries or massive decline by either.

 

Sorry Spud but if they don't resign Lester to an extension you can pretty much kiss off 2015 as well. You can't field a competitive team when you allow your best pitcher to walk to FA and get a measly draft choice back that could turn into a Bradley or Bogerts, two players who have turned out to be rotten ones.

[Spudboy]

Sorry Spud but if they don't resign Lester to an extension you can pretty much kiss off 2015 as well. You can't field a competitive team when you allow your best pitcher to walk to FA and get a measly draft choice back that could turn into a Bradley or Bogerts, two players who have turned out to be rotten ones.

 

Fred where did I mention Lester? I am on the record having said that I do not believe that the Sox want to pay him market value ( or near it ) or sign him to more than 4-5 years.

 

And since you mentioned this subject, I do not agree that Lester is essential to the Sox in order to field a competitive team in 2015. His presence would certainly help. But this team has many issues to address before anyone with a brain could reasonably expect the Sox ( as currently comprised ) to come anywhere near a division tittle or World Series birth.

 

I have also said that prospects are not a sure thing. Just look at the two that you mentioned. I'd rather have Lester back for 4-5 years than to have one compensatory pick in next years draft. But if the Sox could trade Lester for a top pick and one high level prospect that projects to be a power bat in MLB I would do it. I don't see this happening either. Still, the accumulation of draft picks and good prospects is not a bad thing. They become currency with which to deal for someone like Stanton or another impact player that is ready now.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Sorry Spud but if they don't resign Lester to an extension you can pretty much kiss off 2015 as well. You can't field a competitive team when you allow your best pitcher to walk to FA and get a measly draft choice back that could turn into a Bradley or Bogerts, two players who have turned out to be rotten ones.

 

i just. i can't even.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Sorry Spud but if they don't resign Lester to an extension you can pretty much kiss off 2015 as well. You can't field a competitive team when you allow your best pitcher to walk to FA and get a measly draft choice back that could turn into a Bradley or Bogerts, two players who have turned out to be rotten ones.

 

What the Sox should do is trade Lester to the Dodgers for Joc Pederson, trade a mid level guy to the Phillies and get Cliff Lee for 2 years @ 25mm/year, so they stay with the short term, high dollar deals, get an elite prospect, and have their ace for the next 2 years while the prospects develop.

 

Hell, Lester said he'd be open to coming back even if he was traded so pull a Phillies, trade Lester, then resign him after the year is over too.

 

If it was up to me and I said "Ok, I can either 1) sign Lester and get a small discount, or 2) pay market and also get an elite prospect back, I choose 2 every single time.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Sox got Heath Hembree (12 K in 7.2 IP last year in MLB) and Edwin Escobar (BA #56), both pitchers, for Peavy.

 

That's an absolute steal for the Sox.

Edited July 26, 2014 by SoxFanForsyth

[a700hitter]

Not even Owens? He's been practically untouchable in the minors, and he has been going 7+ innings pretty much every time out.

He's the best prospect that we have, but I didn't mention him because he is more than a year away. One guy is not a staff, and I am not seeing the talent in our system to fill a rotation in the next couple of years.

[SoxFanForsyth]

He's the best prospect that we have, but I didn't mention him because he is more than a year away. One guy is not a staff, and I am not seeing the talent in our system to fill a rotation in the next couple of years.

 

Owens, we agree on, is an excellent pitcher.

Ranaudo has a 2.41 ERA in AAA.

Brian Johnson, a very underrated prospect, has a 2.18 ERA in AA.

Allen Webster, you need to give him more than 5 starts to judge him, has a 3.10 ERA in AAA.

Rubby has had 1 stinker but has been excellent outside of that, 3.54 ERA in MLB.

 

I'm a little confused. Why don't you like our young pitchers?

 

Next year, our rotation should include Lee/Lester, Lackey, RDLR, Ranaudo, Workman. Yes, I would dish Buchholz if he goes on a nice run.

[a700hitter]

Next year, our rotation should include Lee/Lester, Lackey, RDLR, Ranaudo, Workman. Yes, I would dish Buchholz if he goes on a nice run.

Three rookies in the starting rotation? If that happens, make vacation plans for October, because our season will be over by June. The growing pains from three starters will sink the staff and kill the bullpen. I will take any bets that if those three guys break camp as starters that we will finish under .500. Does anyone remember when the Yankees broke camp with 2 very highly rated and accomplished prospects - Kennendy and Hughes in 2008. I never count out the Yankees, but that year I threw dirt on them by the end of May. If Rubby gets some good experience the rest of the way in 2014 and works out the growing pains now then we can get away with adding one of the other guys, but not both.

[Spudboy]

I am totally against acquiring Cliff Lee. That ship sailed a while ago. The Sox don't need to spend that kind of money to get servicable MLB pitching good enough to suit their needs for two years.

 

A deal for Lee would be just stupid even if he did not have an elbow about to blow up. If the Sox want an aging MLB arm to be near the front end of their rotation for the next two years then they should just extend Lackey. Then go out and get another proven but cost effective starter not named Hammils or Lee.

[a700hitter]

I am totally against acquiring Cliff Lee. That ship sailed a while ago. The Sox don't need to spend that kind of money to get servicable MLB pitching good enough to suit their needs for two years.

 

A deal for Lee would be just stupid even if he did not have an elbow about to blow up. If the Sox want an aging MLB are to be near the front end of their rotation for the next two years then they should just extend Lackey. The go out and get another proven but cost effective starter not name Hammils or Lee.

Agreed.

[Spudboy]

What many of the younger posters on this site just do not understand is that the Boston market will not tolerate a team constructed ( to begin the new season ) the way San Diego, Houston, and other flailing bottom dwelling franchises are.

 

This is a major league city and market. Without a team that looks to promise at least .500 ball all year long the gig will be up and much of the fan base will evaporate. The Sox brass know this and should be counted on to avoid such a situation.

[a700hitter]

What many of the younger posters on this site just do not understand is that the Boston market will not tolerate a team constructed ( to begin the new season ) the way San Diego, Houston, and other flailing bottom dwelling franchises are.

 

This is a major league city and market. Without a team that looks to promise at least .500 ball all year long the gig will be up and much of the fan base will evaporate. The Sox brass know this and should be counted on to avoid such a situation.

People will not fill expensive seats to see AAA prospects making rookie mistakes and losing more than they win. The need a professional level competitive product to get premium prices. They know it and will act accordingly.

[Gringo]

Another slick trade by Cherington. I bet it's Lucky Larry behind the Jon Lester fiasco. Cherington would have wrapped him up months ago. Larry has to flex his muscles once a year to remind people he still has power.

[Orange Juiced]

Owens, we agree on, is an excellent pitcher.

Ranaudo has a 2.41 ERA in AAA.

Brian Johnson, a very underrated prospect, has a 2.18 ERA in AA.

Allen Webster, you need to give him more than 5 starts to judge him, has a 3.10 ERA in AAA.

Rubby has had 1 stinker but has been excellent outside of that, 3.54 ERA in MLB.

 

I'm a little confused. Why don't you like our young pitchers?

 

Next year, our rotation should include Lee/Lester, Lackey, RDLR, Ranaudo, Workman. Yes, I would dish Buchholz if he goes on a nice run.

 

The Sox have a wealth of quality pitching prospects: Owens, Ranaudo, Johnson, Webster, RDLR, Workman. That's six young guys all with pretty nice MLB upside. Plus the guy they just added to the roster from the Peavy deal, Escobar. There's a LOT to be excited about in this regard.

 

However, 700 is right - we really don't want three of them pitching in the rotation in 2015, or it's going to be a very rough season. One for sure is ok. Maybe two, depending on who the other three are.