Is it time to trade Bucholz, I think yes

[reYoukilis]

Clutch is for people who hate logic.

Meaning?

[Spudboy]

I could not find a dedicated thread to this subject so I'm posting it here because it is topical and particularly relevant to this thread.

 

Bard is History.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2014/06/more_bad_news_for_daniel_bard_as_rangers_release_e.html?p1=Topopage:Carousel_sub_headline

 

 

What a shame.

[jacksonianmarch]

I could not find a dedicated thread to this subject so I'm posting it here because it is topical and particularly relevant to this thread.

 

Bard is History.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2014/06/more_bad_news_for_daniel_bard_as_rangers_release_e.html?p1=Topopage:Carousel_sub_headline

 

 

What a shame.

 

It was a complete and utter f***up bringing him into the rotation. He had already failed as a starter in the minors. The Yankees better not do the same thing with Betances

[a700hitter]

Buchholz's return tonight should really give a shot in the arm to the offense.

[Spudboy]

So if Buch falls on his face again what will the Sox do?

 

I say that they should force him to accept a stint in Pawtucket until he can demonstrate that he has his good stuff back.

 

But that is not likely to happen. He has minor league options I believe. I don't think that the Sox brass has the balls to do this.

 

I'd really prefer that the Sox stick with Workman and De Larosa until they pitch their way out of the rotation. Both of them are an upgrade in performance ( so far ) over Peavy, Dubront, and Buch.

 

With the bulk of the Sox batting order in hibernation I think that it is very important that the best available pitchers start each game and keep things kind of close in the event that the bats produce over 3 runs in any given game.

 

WIN!

[Bellhorn04]

Buchholz is an expensive asset so I think they have to get him back out there and see what the hell is going on with him.

[Spudboy]

Buchholz is an expensive asset so I think they have to get him back out there and see what the hell is going on with him.

 

Yes I realize this. And putting him back out there may have a second benefit if he pitches okay. Maybe someone will want him in trade.

 

The Sox have at least 4 young arms to take his place.

 

My guess is at least one of them is ready now to start every 5 days for the Sox.

[Behindenemylines]

Buchholtz is a big question going forward. Do you keep him and hope he stays healthy and returns to the beginning of 2013 season form, or do you trade him and hope he doesn't. When on his stuff is nasty, but he is not getting any younger and if you think the young kids are the answer maybe you pull the trigger on the deal. This is a tough call.

[seabeachfred]

Buchholtz is a big question going forward. Do you keep him and hope he stays healthy and returns to the beginning of 2013 season form, or do you trade him and hope he doesn't. When on his stuff is nasty, but he is not getting any younger and if you think the young kids are the answer maybe you pull the trigger on the deal. This is a tough call.

 

BEL, a lot will depend on how Clay pitches during the next month and how the Red Sox play along with it. For instance, if worse comes to worse and we get hat tricked this weekend in New York, I think it will be evident that we're not going anywhere and it will be time to blow up this team and send messrs Pierzynski, Miller, Peavy, Drew, Mujica and maybe even a couple of the stalwarts out of town and bring up the kids. I would rather finish fourth or fifth in the division with the young players learning on the job than with the old standbys who haven't done much of anything for us this season. Those aforementioned will not get us much if anything in exchange but if Buchholz pitches well he could get us something substantial and maybe Dubrant a little too. Personally, I think this weekend series with the Yankees ought to settle the hash. We get swept, we blow up the team, we win one game and we start unloading players, we win two and we hold up and see where it leads and if miracle of miracles happens and it is us to turn the hat trick maybe we see the team finally ready to make a move. That's the way I see it anyway.

[Spudboy]

I suspect just more of the same against the Yankees this weekend.

 

But boy would it be nice to see the Sox show everyone that they are not dead yet while exploding for a boatload of runs!!!!

 

I'm sick of Bucholtz and was actually hoping that he was as bad as usual two nights ago!!! Now he has forestalled the process of jettisoning him.

 

So, if he continues to pitch well do the Sox keep him or take advantage of his resurgence and unload him?

 

I'm down with letting the pitching prospects show their stuff for the rest of the season.

[Palodios]

Buchholz undergoes knee surgery.

 

I bet that was what was causing his ineffectiveness. Yeahhh, torn meniscus, that's serious enough, right? He'll be back to dominating next year, I am sure. Quiet you, Jacko and your medicine and science.

[Spudboy]

Buchholz undergoes knee surgery.

 

I bet that was what was causing his ineffectiveness. Yeahhh, torn meniscus, that's serious enough, right? He'll be back to dominating next year, I am sure. Quiet you, Jacko and your medicine and science.

 

Farrrell said that the knee condition had nothing to do with the way Clay pitched and he even said that Clay himself would say so.

 

Off season surgery for Clay should include brain and heart transplants.

[Elktonnick]

How about a spin as well

[curiousd]

BEL, a lot will depend on how Clay pitches during the next month and how the Red Sox play along with it. For instance, if worse comes to worse and we get hat tricked this weekend in New York, I think it will be evident that we're not going anywhere and it will be time to blow up this team and send messrs Pierzynski, Miller, Peavy, Drew, Mujica and maybe even a couple of the stalwarts out of town and bring up the kids. I would rather finish fourth or fifth in the division with the young players learning on the job than with the old standbys who haven't done much of anything for us this season. Those aforementioned will not get us much if anything in exchange but if Buchholz pitches well he could get us something substantial and maybe Dubrant a little too. Personally, I think this weekend series with the Yankees ought to settle the hash. We get swept, we blow up the team, we win one game and we start unloading players, we win two and we hold up and see where it leads and if miracle of miracles happens and it is us to turn the hat trick maybe we see the team finally ready to make a move. That's the way I see it anyway.

 

IMO before going negatronic on Bucholtz it might be instructive to look at the record of Peavy since he left the RS and also look at what he says about the RS. This from a discussion of Giants-Nationals online:

 

A 13-year veteran whom the Giants acquired from the Red Sox in July, Peavy was 1-9 with a 4.72 era. Peavy recovered to go 6-4 with a 2.17 ERA in 12 starts for San Francisco. The Giants won each of his last six starts and eight of nine.

 

"It's a completely different makeup, the cast of characters between the two bunches," Peavy said. "At the end of the day, the thing that reminds me the most about the two teams are the ways they play the game. This team plays the game all out, all in, 27 outs, everything that you can give."

 

A Giants web site in discussing Peavy, attributes his recent success with the Giants to the superior pitching coaching in the Giants' organization.

 

BTW what did we get for Peavy in that trade? Anyone?

Edited October 3, 2014 by curiousd

[Bellhorn04]

IMO before going negatronic on Bucholtz it might be instructive to look at the record of Peavy since he left the RS and also look at what he says about the RS. This from a discussion of Giants-Nationals online:

 

A 13-year veteran whom the Giants acquired from the Red Sox in July, Peavy was 1-9 with a 4.72 era. Peavy recovered to go 6-4 with a 2.17 ERA in 12 starts for San Francisco. The Giants won each of his last six starts and eight of nine.

 

"It's a completely different makeup, the cast of characters between the two bunches," Peavy said. "At the end of the day, the thing that reminds me the most about the two teams are the ways they play the game. This team plays the game all out, all in, 27 outs, everything that you can give."

 

A Giants web site in discussing Peavy, attributes his recent success with the Giants to the superior pitching coaching in the Giants' organization.

 

BTW what did we get for Peavy in that trade? Anyone?

 

They got two of the Giants highest-rated prospects, Edwin Escobar and Heath Hembree. It was a very good get...many people were surprised the Giants gave up that much.

[Spudboy]

So Juan Nueives went 1 and 9 and got lit up in most starts??????????

 

That is a hasty and irresponsible assumption.

 

Maybe Peavey just sucked pond water while with Boston?

 

Or to make another stupid assumption, maybe the AL is a much better league than the NL.

 

I liked Peavey and still do. But he was little more than horrid while a Red Sox including his "huge contribution" in 2013.

 

Buchholtz has never been consistently good. PERIOD.

 

Maybe he too can be resurrected with a change of scenery.

 

But he will be in the Sox rotation to start 2015 and we will all have renewed hope (and naivety ).

[Bellhorn04]

As far as Buchholz is concerned, I think he's way down on our list of issues. The key is you have to look at him as a wild card who could be great or terrible. You just can't count on him as one of your front 2.

[Spudboy]

As far as Buchholz is concerned, I think he's way down on our list of issues. The key is you have to look at him as a wild card who could be great or terrible. You just can't count on him as one of your front 2.

 

Yes to all of this post.

[RiceLynnEvans]

Peavy had some great moments with the Red Sox, not necessarily in the playoffs and series - though he wasn't awful and could have been much worse....it seemed he always would give up 3 or 4 early, then settle in to hand it off while still in the game. 3 or 4 were fine for the 2013 team, they'd claw back; in 2014, they didn't get those 3 back...really frustrating for a pitcher to battle but get no support. Peavy's a fighter who knows how to pitch in big games, and if he's your four or five guy on a NL team, then you've got a solid rotation. The Nats aren't showing it, but that's a pretty potent offense - about as near to an AL lineup that the NL has, Peavy two hit them over seven (then again, a reliever named Petit nearly did that last night, too....maybe I overestimate the Nats bad bats).

 

That said, I still wouldn't want him back....in fact, the best deal BY FAR the Sox made over the winter was the return they got on Peavy.

[Behindenemylines]

I would listen to any deal involving Buchholz. He is never going to be a consistent 200 inning pitcher the Sox had hoped for. If the right deal comes up I would move him. Don't dump just to get rid of him though.

[Spitball]

I would listen to any deal involving Buchholz. He is never going to be a consistent 200 inning pitcher the Sox had hoped for. If the right deal comes up I would move him. Don't dump just to get rid of him though.

 

This perception is why it would not be prudent to move Buchholz at this time. He is at the bottom of his professional value right now.

[jacksonianmarch]

This perception is why it would not be prudent to move Buchholz at this time. He is at the bottom of his professional value right now.

 

Exactly. You have only one other "veteran" under contract in the rotation and that is swing guy Kelly. Buch is also coming off a -1.6WAR season and had the highest ERA of anyone in baseball who threw 170IP or more, and it wasn't even close. He is also being paid $11 mil in 2015. You have to ride with him and see if you can flip him at mid season. If he comes out in April and May and sucks ass, he might be cut