Sox add Mujica

[mvp 78]

Dempster is not fetching us Kemp.

[Palodios]

Dempster is not fetching us Kemp.

 

Trading a 1/13 contract of a guy who had averaged 3-4 WAR a year in the NL for an injury prone guy on a 6/120 contract whose numbers have been all over the map, but over his career averages roughly 3-4 WAR a year.

 

One-for-one, no extra cash, I bet the Dodgers do it.

[mvp 78]

Hahahaja, no way. That's a marklmw steak dinner bet.

[Orange Juiced]

Mujica is a good signing at that price. Very good pitcher, outstanding walk rates. Quality pitcher. He'll be very helpful. The bullpen is one area where the Sox can really improve, perhaps offsetting some offensive losses.

[jacksonianmarch]

Pal, what are you smoking?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Yeah sorry Pal no chance on that.

 

Dodgers going to require WMB in any package I would assume. Maybe WMB and Dempster with a guy like Britton or Workman if the Dodgers are some money

[Palodios]

Pal, what are you smoking?

 

Kemp is damaged goods. His total fWAR over the last two years are 2.8. That's 1.4 per year. I don't care what he was 3-4 years ago, right now he's a 1 WAR player with injury issues. All with a juicy 6/120 contract. He has the same value as Carl Crawford in 2012.... none.

[seabeachfred]

I hope he gets traded. And also i hope the training staff gets Doubrant's ass in shape for this up coming year and he finally because the player the FO thought him to be. They need to get him the same trainer as Lackey had last year.

 

With the Yankees signing both McCann and you know who, they will be very left handed and that means that Doubrant may be more important to us next season than some of you might think. Besides he has pitched some of his best ball against that team, especially in their backyard. I would like to see him in the rotation if he can come to ST next March not looking like a Baby Huey.

[marklmw]

This is a good signing. He was miscast as a closer, but as a setup guy, he gives you insurance should Tazawa regress

Jacko ... have you ever considered coming over to the good side?

[marklmw]

Kemp is damaged goods. His total fWAR over the last two years are 2.8. That's 1.4 per year. I don't care what he was 3-4 years ago, right now he's a 1 WAR player with injury issues. All with a juicy 6/120 contract. He has the same value as Carl Crawford in 2012.... none.

^Nice Post ... I wonder what James has him projected at in 2014.

[marklmw]

Yeah sorry Pal no chance on that.

 

Dodgers going to require WMB in any package I would assume. Maybe WMB and Dempster with a guy like Britton or Workman if the Dodgers are some money

 

Way too early to give up on WMB.

[BudLight]

Mujica is a good signing for the Sox. Being here in StL got to see a lot of him last year. Matheny has a tendency to give up on his pitchers some times and gets into patterns where he overworks his bullpen. I think that is what happened last year. Mujica was solid but overworked in the closers role. Much better as a set-up guy.

[marklmw]

Hahahaja, no way. That's a marklmw steak dinner bet.

 

I think that the Dodgers can find another team willing to give more than a Dempster in return for Kemp. There are many teams that are desperate enough to deal for Kemp and his upside potential.

[SoxSport]

The typical MF media tonite on MLB channel (Stark also on twitter)questioned Mujica's poor September performance and absence in the World Series without mentioning that he had a groin issue in September and tried to play thru it without success.

 

The Red Sox just signed an all star closer on the cheap. That's two they now have. Ben is 2 for 2 in signings, with AJP. Maybe Choo is next. Then Drew and Nap.

[SoxSport]

With the Yankees signing both McCann and you know who, they will be very left handed and that means that Doubrant may be more important to us next season than some of you might think. Besides he has pitched some of his best ball against that team, especially in their backyard. I would like to see him in the rotation if he can come to ST next March not looking like a Baby Huey.

 

Yeah, you got to have good left starters and hitters if you want to beat the Yankees. That's why the Red Sox should sign Choo. They play the MFY 19 times next year, don't they?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Kemp is damaged goods. His total fWAR over the last two years are 2.8. That's 1.4 per year. I don't care what he was 3-4 years ago, right now he's a 1 WAR player with injury issues. All with a juicy 6/120 contract. He has the same value as Carl Crawford in 2012.... none.

 

He was hurt last year, and he's healthy now. He posted an 8.4 UZR in his last fully healthy season. In 2012, when he missed almost 1/2 of a year with a shoulder injury, he still posted a 3.2 WAR. With a 146 wRC+. Extrapolate that over a 150 game season, and he was on pace for around a 4.7 - 5.0 WAR season.

 

If you can get a 4.5 - 5.0 WAR player for $15-16mm/year, particularly one who has the upside to post an 8-9 WAR season, that's a good investment IMO. Certainly worth more than Dempster.

Edited December 6, 2013 by SoxFanForsyth

[Palodios]

Gomes and Nava as a platoon are worth roughly 3 WAR. Kemp is worth 4-5 WAR IF healthy. If you're going to spend lots of money on an injury prone player, shouldn't the Red Sox at least be trying to fill a position of need ?

[a700hitter]

I don't see trading talent to get back Kemp with his huge paycheck and injuries. Beltran is the better choice -- cheaper, don't have to trade talent, and he is a shorter term commitment. Plus, he is a switch hitter.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Gomes and Nava as a platoon are worth roughly 3 WAR. Kemp is worth 4-5 WAR IF healthy. If you're going to spend lots of money on an injury prone player, shouldn't the Red Sox at least be trying to fill a position of need ?

 

Gomes/Nava posted a 2.8 WAR together last year.......over 240 games and 902 PA.

 

They are projected by ZiPS to post a 1.2 combined WAR in 2014. Nava 0.8, Gomes 0.4. Not 3.

 

Not sure how you can project the Sox to get a WAR of 3 in a LF platoon when they couldn't produce that last year with over 900 PA last year.

 

Not to mention, Kemp provides 25-30 HR pop with the ability to hit 40. If you're going to have JBJ in CF, you need that extra pop in LF. Kemp can also play CF if JBJ isn't working out or needs development time and you don't have to take Victorino out of RF.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I don't see trading talent to get back Kemp with his huge paycheck and injuries. Beltran is the better choice -- cheaper, don't have to trade talent, and he is a shorter term commitment. Plus, he is a switch hitter.

 

If you can get his deal down to 6 years, 90mm, that's not a huge paycheck. And you're not giving up a ton of talent. Nothing elite. Some solid talent, yes, but if you get the deal down to a much more managable 15mm/year, then it makes sense.

[a700hitter]

If you can get his deal down to 6 years, 90mm, that's not a huge paycheck. And you're not giving up a ton of talent. Nothing elite. Some solid talent, yes, but if you get the deal down to a much more managable 15mm/year, then it makes sense.

If the Dodgers eat a lot of the contract, they will want good talent. If they eat little or none, tjhey will not expect to get much talent. We are not going to get it both ways, I.e., the Dodgers eat a lot of the contract and accept little talent in return. That is a pipe dream.

[Palodios]

Gomes/Nava posted a 2.8 WAR together last year.......over 240 games and 902 PA.

 

They are projected by ZiPS to post a 1.2 combined WAR in 2014. Nava 0.8, Gomes 0.4. Not 3.

 

Not sure how you can project the Sox to get a WAR of 3 in a LF platoon when they couldn't produce that last year with over 900 PA last year.

 

Not to mention, Kemp provides 25-30 HR pop with the ability to hit 40. If you're going to have JBJ in CF, you need that extra pop in LF. Kemp can also play CF if JBJ isn't working out or needs development time and you don't have to take Victorino out of RF.

 

The Red Sox lost significant value from Nava defensively playing him out of position in right and first, and value from both offensively by platooning them poorly. With another outfielder who can actually play rf/cf the platoon gets around 800 to 850 ops... Not that far off from a magic Christmas land Kemp scenario.

[SoxSport]

Hitters coming off shoulder surgery often never get their full power back. Look at AdGon. He is getting paid for his Padres' form--before surgery. But he isn't the same hitter. My guess is McCann might never be the same, either, though Yankee stadium certainly helps him. The chances of Ellsbury showing any power there have been lessened by his rib and shoulder injuries.

 

Even Votto has had a tough time power wise coming back from knee? surgery? His power numbers were off last year--as fantasy players will tell you. The Reds are paying him $20+ mil for 75 RBIs?

[SoxSport]

If the Dodgers eat a lot of the contract, they will want good talent. If they eat little or none, tjhey will not expect to get much talent. We are not going to get it both ways, I.e., the Dodgers eat a lot of the contract and accept little talent in return. That is a pipe dream.

 

The Red Sox probably know what it will take to get Kemp or Ethier. They will balance that against Choo. I think they want a right fielder, figuring Vic and Bradley are enough for CF. They want a guy who can defend RF in Fenway. Choo is probably their best bet, but how much will he cost? They surely like him best because of his high OBP--he's a 20-20 type of player who can lead off or bat in the middle of the order. But MF Boras probably wants Ellsbury-Yankee money for him. Pass.

 

The problem with Beltran is his ability to play RF in Fenway regularly--with his age and bad knees. Plus he wants 3 years, which is a deal breaker for 37 yo.

Edited December 6, 2013 by SoxSport

[SoxSport]

Gomes/Nava posted a 2.8 WAR together last year.......over 240 games and 902 PA.

 

 

Not to mention, Kemp provides 25-30 HR pop with the ability to hit 40. If you're going to have JBJ in CF, you need that extra pop in LF. Kemp can also play CF if JBJ isn't working out or needs development time and you don't have to take Victorino out of RF.

 

Kemp is a big gamble coming off three surgeries. Doubtful he will ever regain his power after the surgeries he had. Didn't Ethier have a good Aug and Sept? He might be a cheaper, safer bet. I don't know how serious the Dodgers are about shedding their 4th outfielder. I wouldn't be with their revenues.

[rician blast]

Kemp is a HUGE gamble a this point. Big upside, but his health scares me. Sox are not the Yanks who are comfortable paying now, regretting later.

[a700hitter]

The Red Sox probably know what it will take to get Kemp or Ethier. They will balance that against Choo. I think they want a right fielder, figuring Vic and Bradley are enough for CF. They want a guy who can defend RF in Fenway. Choo is probably their best bet, but how much will he cost? They surely like him best because of his high OBP--he's a 20-20 type of player who can lead off or bat in the middle of the order. But MF Boras probably wants Ellsbury-Yankee money for him. Pass.

 

The problem with Beltran is his ability to play RF in Fenway regularly--with his age and bad knees. Plus he wants 3 years, which is a deal breaker for 37 yo.

The bad aspect of Choo and Ethier is that they are left handed and struggle against left handed pitching. Beltran can play LF with Bradley and Victorino playing CF and RF.

[BornToRun]

I want absolutely nothing to do with Ethier. He is Daniel Nava for a far higher price.

[Behindenemylines]

If healthy this was a good signing for the Sox. Another reliever that throws a ton of strikes and has had some success in the closer role.

[vjcsmoke]

Yankees already signed Beltran. Choo would be the safest bet and is a great leadoff hitter. But he might cost more than we want to spend. If we can move Dempster, plus B+ prospects for Kemp, and they eat some salary, I'd take the risk that he has a bounce back year. He would platoon well with JBJ or move over to left if he doesn't have the legs for CF anymore.

 

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-1209-dodgers-20131209,0,4277030.story#axzz2n3qBQpNr

 

As for Mujica, yup. Sox seem to like have a great bullpen. They hopefully just added another good arm who can throw some high leverage 7th/8th innings. If we can bridge to Uehara, we're golden.