Ellsbury to Yankees

[a700hitter]

Thank You User for being the typical dick you are in all ofa your replies, i appreciate it like always. I was not trying to say that the Sox were frugal with their money. I was saying that a lot of posters on here act like the FO needs to be frugal with their money like the money was coming out of their back pocket. I understand totally about making good decisions regarding the use of the assets we have and that the FO will field the best team possible, and we are all still excited about the teams 2013 championship and none of us need to lose sight of that. But still we have seen two of our FAs leave and two more left out in free agency so im saying we need to address areas on need and if it is an overpay than so be it. All im saying is that we need to sign Napoli and not Corey Hart to play 1B. And then go out and get another bat that plays OF to make this lineup as dangerous as last years and if they have to overpay then spend spend spend if it makes us a better team. I hope to see in my lifetime the Sox to go on a run of championships and eventually surpass the MFY in titles. We are only a couple of pieces away from really contending again. So i say spend Ben spend the $ on players soon to field on a repeat title team.

Good post. Armchair GMs are annoying enough, but armchair GMs with a budget are much worse. It is fun to talk about getting good players in the Hot Stove season. That is the fun of the Hot Stove league-- not getting bargain basement second hand damaged goods. As Ellsbury is stealing 20+ bases against us in each of the next couple of seasons, I will find no solace in the expectation that he will have terrible seasons in 2018-2020.

[a700hitter]

Okay, this thing where everyone begins their replies with the name of the person they are replying to needs to stop. We all know who you are talking to. That's what the quoting function is for. It just comes across as pretentious, and this is coming from the most pretentious person on this site.

 

A700Hitter agrees with you about the pretentiousness.

[User Name]

Yeah yeah i know. I keep trying to make my point about "something" i think is dumb without insulting the person who said it, which is obviously either not coming out the way i want it to or it's just stupidly said. I'll say it's number two and call it a day. I'll keep an eye out for pulling that s*** off from now on and i clearly deserve to be scolded whenever i do (BAD UN?, BAD UN? would suffice). The only issue i have with your post is that i'm clearly your favorite person on this site.

 

As for the baseball part of your post, i mostly agree but the truth is that people who think this contract will be a long-term albatross have a lot of evidence backing up their claims. For every 5+ year contract awarded in MLB, 3 out of every 5 are busts (estimate) and it's even worse for players after 30.

[VA Sox Fan]

A700Hitter agrees with you about the pretentiousness.

 

a700 deserves to be banned for referring to himself in the 3rd person!!!!!!! STAT!!!! ;)

[a700hitter]

a700 deserves to be banned for referring to himself in the 3rd person!!!!!!! STAT!!!! ;)

LOL!!! A700Hitter is offended.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Yeah yeah i know. I keep trying to make my point about "something" i think is dumb without insulting the person who said it, which is obviously either not coming out the way i want it to or it's just stupidly said. I'll say it's number two and call it a day. I'll keep an eye out for pulling that s*** off from now on and i clearly deserve to be scolded whenever i do (BAD UN?, BAD UN? would suffice). The only issue i have with your post is that i'm clearly your favorite person on this site.

 

As for the baseball part of your post, i mostly agree but the truth is that people who think this contract will be a long-term albatross have a lot of evidence backing up their claims. For every 5+ year contract awarded in MLB, 3 out of every 5 are busts (estimate) and it's even worse for players after 30.

 

True, but as much as I hate to agree with something jacko said, Ellsbury doesn't have the same durability as some of those guys. He has missed a couple significant chunks of time due to injury, but neither of those were from being fragile, they were from being run over by guys like Adrian Beltre, which is more or less comparable to being run over by a large truck made out of smaller trucks carrying smaller trucks.

[User Name]

True, but as much as I hate to agree with something jacko said, Ellsbury doesn't have the same durability as some of those guys. He has missed a couple significant chunks of time due to injury, but neither of those were from being fragile, they were from being run over by guys like Adrian Beltre, which is more or less comparable to being run over by a large truck made out of smaller trucks carrying smaller trucks.

 

Well we should put durability aside for a second and look at his profile as a hitter and defender. Ellsbury's game relies mostly on his speed, because let's face it, 2011's power surge was a mirage. What happens when the legs begin to go? He doesn't profile to increase his power output as he ages like Lofton, Hunter and Damon did, and that allowed their transition into effective corner OF's. The Yanks are betting 153 million dollars on the unlikely scenario that Ellsbury ages like Ichiro did, and that's extremely rare. There's reason for skepticism here, and i'm glad the Red Sox passed on him.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Well we should put durability aside for a second and look at his profile as a hitter and defender. Ellsbury's game relies mostly on his speed, because let's face it, 2011's power surge was a mirage. What happens when the legs begin to go? He doesn't profile to increase his power output as he ages like Lofton, Hunter and Damon did, and that allowed their transition into effective corner OF's. The Yanks are betting 153 million dollars on the unlikely scenario that Ellsbury ages like Ichiro did, and that's extremely rare. There's reason for skepticism here, and i'm glad the Red Sox passed on him.

 

I see your point, but he's only had one full season since 2011, how can we be completely sure that 2011 was a fluke?

[VA Sox Fan]

LOL!!! A700Hitter is offended.

 

What else is new??!!!!

[User Name]

I see your point, but he's only had one full season since 2011, how can we be completely sure that 2011 was a fluke?

 

Well we can't be completely sure of anything in baseball, but judging from his scouting reports, other full seasons (9, 8, 9 HR's) and the lingering effect of shoulder injuries like the one he suffered (hey A-Gonz), it's a pretty big gamble. NYS will help, but how much?

[iortiz]

I see your point, but he's only had one full season since 2011, how can we be completely sure that 2011 was a fluke?

 

Jacoby Ellsbury is a very good player. Arguably the best leadoff in majors say for the next 3 Y. Does he worth 150 M? Honestly who the hell cares. This is up to NYY owners. These greedy bastards can spend this kind of money with their hands in their hips any given day. Is this contract going to work out for the yankees? who the hell knows…there are plenty of examples of players that performed pretty decent in their late 30's. Ellsbury and eventually Cano will be alright, and both overall deals will be fine IMO.

Edited December 5, 2013 by iortiz

[seabeachfred]

Fred, i do practice what i preach, and i obviously meant what i said. The whole point of my post (which you probably didn't read) was that neither are the Sox frugal nor do we want them to be. But nice try.

 

On the whole "ooh ooh i predicted where Ellsbury was going to land" thing, i'm just yanking your chain. I couldn't give two shits either way. Bad post.

 

Well it makes no difference to either of us now anyway User. Ellsbury is gone and there was no way in hell the Red Sox should have offered anything close to what the Yankees gave him......seven years? Two years too many. $153 million? Way too much. On that there is total agreement between us. I'm more mad at the Yankees than Ellsbury. They are back trying to buy themselves a title the way they did after their big spending spree in 2008, and that would frost me if they came back next year and won the WS. We must not let that happen. As for Cano, I really pray that the Mariners are really going to stop bullshitting and really come out with a major deal that will keep Cano out of New York. If that happens they would actually be minus since Robbie is a better all around player than Jacoby.

[User Name]

What about all of the other players who didn't perform well into their mid/late 30's.

 

Also, whether he is worth 150 million is important to a lot of people. Eventually f***ing yourself over with enough stupid contract leads to a shitfest like the Sox' 2012, or the Yankees' 2013, who apparently have not learned their lesson.

[User Name]

Well it makes no difference to either of us now anyway User. Ellsbury is gone and there was no way in hell the Red Sox should have offered anything close to what the Yankees gave him......seven years? Two years too many. $153 million? Way too much. On that there is total agreement between us. I'm more mad at the Yankees than Ellsbury. They are back trying to buy themselves a title the way they did after their big spending spree in 2008, and that would frost me if they came back next year and won the WS. We must not let that happen. As for Cano, I really pray that the Mariners are really going to stop bullshitting and really come out with a major deal that will keep Cano out of New York. If that happens they would actually be minus since Robbie is a better all around player than Jacoby.

 

You know what? I think one of the Mariners/Nationals signs Cano. And i don't think it's just wishful thinking.

[iortiz]

…. on the other hand and IMHO the money that some baseball players make these days is totally insane.

[iortiz]

What about all of the other players who didn't perform well into their mid/late 30's.

 

Also, whether he is worth 150 million is important to a lot of people. Eventually f***ing yourself over with enough stupid contract leads to a shitfest like the Sox' 2012, or the Yankees' 2013, who apparently have not learned their lesson.

yup, it can go to both directions. Only time will tell.

[a700hitter]

what else is new??!!!!

lol!

[marklmw]

A full day has passed since I learned of Ellsbury going to the NYY's. I was pissed yesterday but no longer. The Yankees have no pitching next season ... none ... Cano is going to sign with Seattle ... The Sox will sign Napoli to a 3 year deal.

Bogaert's is going to put up a 5.5 WAR next year. WMB is going to put up a 5 WAR ... Napoli is going to put up a 4.5 WAR and win a gold glove. JBJ will put up a 3.5 WAR and A.J. & Ross will combine for a 3 WAR. The Sox will win the Division by 4 games over Baltimore. The Yankees will finish in the basement. Sox defeat the Tigers once again in 6 and go on to defeat the Dodgers in 7. Guys and Gals ... we are going to have a blast next season.

[dupree]

A full day has passed since I learned of Ellsbury going to the NYY's. I was pissed yesterday but no longer. The Yankees have no pitching next season ... none ... Cano is going to sign with Seattle ... The Sox will sign Napoli to a 3 year deal.

Bogaert's is going to put up a 5.5 WAR next year. WMB is going to put up a 5 WAR ... Napoli is going to put up a 4.5 WAR and win a gold glove. JBJ will put up a 3.5 WAR and A.J. & Ross will combine for a 3 WAR. The Sox will win the Division by 4 games over Baltimore. The Yankees will finish in the basement. Sox defeat the Tigers once again in 6 and go on to defeat the Dodgers in 7. Guys and Gals ... we are going to have a blast next season.

I like the way you think. Im cheering the Mariners on to sign Cano. Just as long as he goes somewhere other than the yankees i will be happy. Ells at 150million 9-10 hr and 50-55rbi per year or Cano at 250million 30-35hr and 95-100rbi, i think we all would agree our advantage would be Cano going to the Mariners and the Yankees with their high payroll and no pitching so stupid on their part. As in football defense wins championships, pitching in baseball wins championships and when all they have is a fat guy who gets hit hard by the Sox all the time the future dont look good for them. I can see them as the Angels of the East this year.

[seabeachfred]

Yeah yeah i know. I keep trying to make my point about "something" i think is dumb without insulting the person who said it, which is obviously either not coming out the way i want it to or it's just stupidly said. I'll say it's number two and call it a day. I'll keep an eye out for pulling that s*** off f rom now on and i clearly deserve to be scolded whenever i do (BAD UN?, BAD UN? would suffice). The only issue i have with your post is that i'm clearly your favorite person on this site.

 

As for the baseball part of your post, i mostly agree but the truth is that people who think this contract will be a long-term albatross have a lot of evidence backing up their claims. For every 5+ year contract awarded in MLB, 3 out of every 5 are busts (estimate) and it's even worse for players after 30.

 

Let's just move on without the insults and concentrate on the business at hand.....what we need to do in order to be ready for next year. It is irritating enough that the Yankees always follow a title by us either by a spending spree or a major trade or two, and I would just like to steal one of their players for a change. I don't care what anyone says, the MF Yankees get absolutely paranoid and psychotic every time the Red Sox win a World Series. We just need to stay ahead of them and let the chips fall where they may. It is clear this is the only way the Yankees can operate since their farm system is a disgrace.

[seabeachfred]

You know what? I think one of the Mariners/Nationals signs Cano. And i don't think it's just wishful thinking.

 

Now that I would love to see. I hope to hell that happens. I want the Yankees to get it right in the shorts and pray that the M's or Nats don't get cold feet and crap out on that. Cano elsewhere would make Ellsbury's signing a minus overall, though with McCann also on board they will have improved a little. And someone other than them need to get Tanaka. I wonder if we'll make a bid on him.

[seabeachfred]

I like the way you think. Im cheering the Mariners on to sign Cano. Just as long as he goes somewhere other than the yankees i will be happy. Ells at 150million 9-10 hr and 50-55rbi per year or Cano at 250million 30-35hr and 95-100rbi, i think we all would agree our advantage would be Cano going to the Mariners and the Yankees with their high payroll and no pitching so stupid on their part. As in football defense wins championships, pitching in baseball wins championships and when all they have is a fat guy who gets hit hard by the Sox all the time the future dont look good for them. I can see them as the Angels of the East this year.

 

I like the way my friend Mark is talking too----if it goes as he thinks it will. I also want to see the Yankees shut out in the Tanaka chase as well. It still pisses me off to see teams like them and the Dodgers trying to buy their way to a championship and pisses me off more than there are teams that still allow Boras to take them to the cleaners because money is no object to them.

[jacksonianmarch]

2 things.

 

1. Sometimes you must overpay to get or keep great talent. Dustin Pedroia's are rare in this day and age.

 

2. It's only a stupid contract if you cannot afford it or if said player tanks, so does your team. I think we all know the Yankees can throw 3 more of these contracts out there and not bat an eye.

 

Is ellsbury overpaid? f*** yeah. Every one of these baseball players makes more than I do, and I save lives for a living, lol. But if the Yankees can afford it, then haggling over the financials is kinda silly. Now if the Yankees come out and throw that fiscal responsibility garbage out there and don't fill out their team, then I'll back the arguments here.

 

Ellsbury is a good player who had one great season. In Yankee stadium, he could be great. He's being paid to be great. And his loss hurts the sox on December 4th. The offseason is a month in. I'd preach patience to everyone, neither team is done

[jacksonianmarch]

Also, the Yankees aren't getting tanaka. The new rules stipulate a max bid of $20 mil and if there are multiple $20 mil bids, it goes to the team with the worst record in the previous year. The sox have zero shot. The Yankees have next to no shot. My guess is he ends up a Cub

[iortiz]

Say they land Cano as well... Where in the hell are you going to get pitching? Kuroda? IMO there's nothing left in that tank. Tanaka? If so (I doubt it) he is a mystery at MLB level. CC? He is done IMO. You just can't put all the weight on Nova's shoulders. Also you need a closer. Seems to me like the 2011 Red Sox. Edited December 5, 2013 by iortiz

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

If they don't get a closer, they'll probably put Robertson in that role.

[jacksonianmarch]

I have a feeling they get Kuroda and garza now

[jacksonianmarch]

And you're sure CC is done? He was his typical self for most of the first half and then fell apart. You think it could have something to do with not having a full offseason or ST due to elbow surgery? I think CC rebounds in 2014. He's too good not to. We need 2 SPs. CC, Nova, Phelps/Warren should fill out the 1,3,and 5 spots well. We need a 2 and a 4

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/jacoby-ellsbury-and-injury-proneness/

 

A good article for those who think Ells is truly 'injury prone'. Especially for those advocating acquiring Matt Kemp

[mvp 78]

Jacko, which song more exemplifies the traits you have as someone who saves lives: Hero by Chad Kroeger or My Hero by the Foo Fighters?