Ellsbury to Yankees

[BornToRun]

Hard to call Ells a traitor like Damon was (Damon played us all for fools and then took the money and ran.)

 

I don't begrudge him for going to the MFY and I hope he gets a huge ovation for his first AB back at Fenway.

[seabeachfred]

I'm not mad because he's gone. I'm mad because he decided to be a traitor by going to the Yankees. I'm not a big Yankees hater (more of a Rays hater), but you can't just do this. It's the lame of all lames. Ellsbury was my favorite player and the best player on the Sox. This is worse than the Damon trade because Ells won two WS titles with us before doing this. I guess temptation can defeat anybody.

 

We should get a new center fielder. I have a feeling Bradley Jr will be a .230 hitter.

 

If Bradley is a 20 hitter he will be booed and run the f*** out of town on a rail. He better come through for us. I don't want another Damon gone and Crisp taking his place again.

[seabeachfred]

Funny how we as fans overreact when a baseball team "overpays" LOL. If they pay (overpay for us) is because those contracts mean "pennies" for them vs the money they are making/will make. Teams like NYY or LAD among a few others can spend like this any given Sunday. Obviously the NYY haven't finished. The Ells/McCann moves speak volumes: they are on I-want-to-win-now mode. They will land Cano and if you rush me they will land Shoo as well. Do not forget that they still need pitching; no gentlemen, this is just the beginning, their shopping cart is far to be ready.

 

Will they end up with a 300 MUSD payroll? You betcha!

 

You're God Damn right my friend----and sooner or later people here will understand you never ever take your eyes off the Yankees, the greedy bastards.

[seabeachfred]

JBJ will never steal 20 bases in the big leagues. I'd be surprised if he was ever allowed to run 20 times a year. He stole 9 bases last year combined between AAA and MLB and was caught 7 times. This man can not beat AAA catchers on the basepaths, he should be tried only very conservatively against big league catchers.

 

JBJ is a smart defender with great athleticism at the corners and decent in the middle but he doesn't have elite speed, and the power potential remains to be seen as well. All we know is that he's got really good plate discipline. Which is a really good place to start. The rest is up in the air.

 

I've said this before but my comp with JBJ is David Dejesus. That's probably a disappointing name for some people who want to expect Mike Trout or something, but David Dejesus was really solid in his day, boasted a lot of doubles power if little home run power, and as long as he could hit over .270 was borderline elite as an on base hitter. That's a package we should take out of a rookie if we can get it.

 

I get that with Ellsbury gone all hopes swing ti JBJ but honestly I feel that isn't fair to him. He's still got a ton of leaning to do about how to be a big leaguer, and the tools package isn't close to Ellsbury's -- he's going to have to be a lot smarter and more selective to produce at the same level, that's just a fact So it won't do to overrate him and set ourselves up for disappointment, and if you predict a 5 tool guy out of JBJ, that's exactly what you're doing.

 

Well he better learn how to steal bases and he sure as hell had better hit because if Ells has a banner year next season for the MF Yankees and Bradley sucks for us his ass will run out of town in a year or two. The fans will not tolerate a star like Ells being replaced by another Coco Crisp. Jackie has to produce.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Yes, you said that. Two posts ago.

[Palodios]

Hard to call Ells a traitor like Damon was (Damon played us all for fools and then took the money and ran.)

 

I don't begrudge him for going to the MFY and I hope he gets a huge ovation for his first AB back at Fenway.

 

He will be showered with dollar bills, and you know it

[kapsis21]

as much as i love Ellsbury and his base stealing ability, learning from the Crawford contract, the redsox wouldnt have wanted to repeat that. now in that bandbox stadium he might be able to hit a few more HRs..

but anything over 5 years would have been an overpay. but he had his payday coming .. ohwell

 

now i just hope that we have enough with Shane/Nava/Gomes/JBJ in the outfield.

[Dojji]

Well he better learn how to steal bases.

 

Fred, Jackie Beradley Jr. is not a base stealer. He does not have the speed, and he does not have the instincts. If you expect a base stealer from JBJ you will be disappointed. Period, end of sentence. Just because Ellsbury was a fantastic base stealer does NOt mean one has to steal bases to succeed as a CF.

 

Holding JBj up to the standard of Ellsbury in any way is ludicrous, I don't care who Ellsbury plays for or what he does next year, that is not a standard that should be asked of Bradley, and if any expectations of "elite CF speed" from JBJ are disappointed, that is the fault of the idiot fans who put those expectations on him in the first place.

[marklmw]

Our next great lead-off base-stealer will be Mookie Betts. If the FO does not do anything foolish and trade the lad away.

He will be converted to the outfield and arrive in 2016.

[RiceLynnEvans]

Chooo Chooo....gotta get on the Choo train. Els leaving breaks my heart....I was hoping against hope that he'd pull a Pedey and stay. To me, Els isn't the greatest defender....and he has a limp arm....and he isn't an OBP machine (some sour grapes to ease the loss). Choo is the deal....rifle arm, as good a defender as Els, and he gets on base at a phenomenal rate and can steal 20 a year....exactly what this team needs. Vic in center, Choo in right, Nava/Gomes platoon in left.

 

Els, to me, was a base stealer and he absolutely f***ed with pitchers' minds and defensive positioning. Vic had a great year 'cause when Els got on, there'd always be a hole somewhere for Vic to slap one through....which he did all year long. That's where we'll miss Els most. Choo could help mitigate that loss.

[Dojji]

No on Choo. Choo is an overreaction when we have a decent chance to get reasonable production out of CF from Bradley next year. Just because I don't think he'll produce at an all star level doesn't mean I think the positives won't outweigh the negatives.

[v2freak]

Thanks for all you've done, Jacoby. Now prepare for the Damon treatment.

[BSN07]

At first when I read the headline I was like damnit. Then I read the contract and have been laughing all day. I would have thrown up in my mouth if the Sox signed him to that and I am/was a Jacoby supporter. Can't fault him either for taking the drunken sailors money.

[mvp 78]

Thanks for all you've done, Jacoby. Now prepare for the Damon treatment.

 

Nah, the ladies love him too much and guys have been indifferent. Ells was never the fan favorite Damon was.

[dupree]

I honestly dont understand why people are seeming to be so frugal with the Sox' money and say no we need to let the youth carry us. Just because Theo made bad signings with Crawford and Agon doesnt mean we should all look at every signing as an overpay or a bad deal. I think we all thought Ells would be gone but just not to the MFYankees but it is what it is so instead of saying lets just hold the course and be frugal with the money which many seem like it is coming from their own back pocket, why not make another run this year and depending on a rookie to carry us to the promise land is a lil too much of a risk for me. I think the Sox have to make a move on Napoli and soon, not saying they aint im just saying id like to hear a deal nearing to feel more comfortable. Also i think even after Nap is signed we are still down from last year as far as the explosive line up that can decimate any rotation in the league. With Nap in the fold we will have a good line up but not as dangerous line up like last year.

 

I still say a trade is on the horizon or maybe a signing for an impact bat to slot in the lineup in front of Ortiz and behind Peddy. A trade for Kemp, Bautista, or Stanton, or a singing of Choo or Beltran will likely put the Sox back into that dangerous category. Im a constant supporter to let the young'ns play but im not sure that JBJ is ready for that role and pressure cooker of Boston. If he has a bad 1st month all that will be said is they made a bad move and shoulda signed Ells back. I think allowing his to spend the 1st half in AAA and then bringing him up at the deadline would be the best idea, but if the slot him into CF and have a big bat in LF beside him the FO can say hey we wasnt gonna overpay for Ells because we wanted a big bat to play LF. We will miss Ells 50 sb per year but one dont need to steal that many when the guys behind you are knocking the ball out of the park.

 

I like Kemp the most of all the players i mentioned. If healthy he is the biggest impact for next years team. So lets hope Ben makes a move on Nap soon and then addresses another need with a big bat.

[SoxSport]

The Yankees made a nutty offer for Ells which Boras took quickly while it was on the table. And some people expected the Red Sox to exceed it? The offer was in another league from what anybody else would pay for that level of player. If anything, it just shows their desperation.

Wonder what they will finally give Cano? They could price themselves into deep trouble unless ARod's entire contract gets voided. It couldn't happen to a worse organization. The Steinbrenners have been anathema to baseball and salary inflation.

[BornToRun]

He will be showered with dollar bills, and you know it

 

Damon got smatterings of cheers when he returned and that's after lying to the entire fanbase. I'm sure there'll be some people throwing dollar bills and booing but I bet the reception will be a lot better than you think.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I might have some reservations about cheering for him when he returns.

[SoxSport]

A misconception floating around in the media is that free agents "belong" to the team they have left. "Ellsbury of the Red Sox".

Wrong. A free agent has no team. Ellsbury was no longer a member of the Red Sox when he became a free agent. Nor are any of the other unsigned free agents out there. They have no team until they sign with one.

[BornToRun]

I might have some reservations about cheering for him when he returns.

 

I would cheer until my throat was sore for his first AB. After that, he's an MFY and gets treated like one.

[User Name]

I honestly dont understand why people are seeming to be so frugal with the Sox' money and say no we need to let the youth carry us. Just because Theo made bad signings with Crawford and Agon doesnt mean we should all look at every signing as an overpay or a bad deal. I think we all thought Ells would be gone but just not to the MFYankees but it is what it is so instead of saying lets just hold the course and be frugal with the money which many seem like it is coming from their own back pocket, why not make another run this year and depending on a rookie to carry us to the promise land is a lil too much of a risk for me. I think the Sox have to make a move on Napoli and soon, not saying they aint im just saying id like to hear a deal nearing to feel more comfortable. Also i think even after Nap is signed we are still down from last year as far as the explosive line up that can decimate any rotation in the league. With Nap in the fold we will have a good line up but not as dangerous line up like last year.

 

I still say a trade is on the horizon or maybe a signing for an impact bat to slot in the lineup in front of Ortiz and behind Peddy. A trade for Kemp, Bautista, or Stanton, or a singing of Choo or Beltran will likely put the Sox back into that dangerous category. Im a constant supporter to let the young'ns play but im not sure that JBJ is ready for that role and pressure cooker of Boston. If he has a bad 1st month all that will be said is they made a bad move and shoulda signed Ells back. I think allowing his to spend the 1st half in AAA and then bringing him up at the deadline would be the best idea, but if the slot him into CF and have a big bat in LF beside him the FO can say hey we wasnt gonna overpay for Ells because we wanted a big bat to play LF. We will miss Ells 50 sb per year but one dont need to steal that many when the guys behind you are knocking the ball out of the park.

 

I like Kemp the most of all the players i mentioned. If healthy he is the biggest impact for next years team. So lets hope Ben makes a move on Nap soon and then addresses another need with a big bat.

 

This is one of the dumbest thing i have ever read. How can they be "frugal" when they're guaranteed to enter the season with a 160+ million payroll? Even worse, they're not even done with their off-season signings, and what people are saying here is not "don't pay good Free agents" but rather "don't sign players to stupid contracts" which is exactly what the Yanks just did with Ellsbury.

[RedSoxNC84]

I would cheer until my throat was sore for his first AB. After that, he's an MFY and gets treated like one.

 

Especially if that AB ends in a short popout to shallow left center.

[NOATHLETESALLOWED]

I'll cheer if he can get sidelined for a whole year and milk the yankee payroll for the good of redsox nation and baseball.

[dupree]

This is one of the dumbest thing i have ever read. How can they be "frugal" when they're guaranteed to enter the season with a 160+ million payroll? Even worse, they're not even done with their off-season signings, and what people are saying here is not "don't pay good Free agents" but rather "don't sign players to stupid contracts" which is exactly what the Yanks just did with Ellsbury.

Thank You User for being the typical dick you are in all ofa your replies, i appreciate it like always. I was not trying to say that the Sox were frugal with their money. I was saying that a lot of posters on here act like the FO needs to be frugal with their money like the money was coming out of their back pocket. I understand totally about making good decisions regarding the use of the assets we have and that the FO will field the best team possible, and we are all still excited about the teams 2013 championship and none of us need to lose sight of that. But still we have seen two of our FAs leave and two more left out in free agency so im saying we need to address areas on need and if it is an overpay than so be it. All im saying is that we need to sign Napoli and not Corey Hart to play 1B. And then go out and get another bat that plays OF to make this lineup as dangerous as last years and if they have to overpay then spend spend spend if it makes us a better team. I hope to see in my lifetime the Sox to go on a run of championships and eventually surpass the MFY in titles. We are only a couple of pieces away from really contending again. So i say spend Ben spend the $ on players soon to field on a repeat title team.

[User Name]

Always here to help.

 

However, let me pose the following question: What if someone offers something stupid to Napoli and the Sox would have to match a 5/80 offer to secure his services? Would you be ok with them overpaying in this instance when they could possibly get more production out of Hart for a tenth of the price and a fifth of the years? Because that's what members of the board talk about when they say "don't overpay". They overpaid for Victorino, Dempster, and Napoli last year so they could get them all on shorter deals, but there comes a point where "overpaying" becomes "being stupid" and that's what they should avoid.

 

Also, letting the "youth carry us" seems to be working quite well for the Cardinals, Rays, A's, Baltimore, Pirates, Braves and Reds. Maybe it's a good model to follow when you also have the resources to dip into the FA pool when needed and secure your own talent like some of these teams can't do?

 

To clarify (because i see that my post was very poorly worded and the dick accusation is warranted in this case) what i meant in my initial post was that it wouldn't make sense for fans of a team that has a 160 million payroll to be frugal, and that people here (and Red Sox fans in general) don't want them to refrain from spending money, but rather from spending money stupidly.

Edited December 5, 2013 by User Name?

[seabeachfred]

Thank You User for being the typical dick you are in all ofa your replies, i appreciate it like always. I was not trying to say that the Sox were frugal with their money. I was saying that a lot of posters on here act like the FO needs to be frugal with their money like the money was coming out of their back pocket. I understand totally about making good decisions regarding the use of the assets we have and that the FO will field the best team possible, and we are all still excited about the teams 2013 championship and none of us need to lose sight of that. But still we have seen two of our FAs leave and two more left out in free agency so im saying we need to address areas on need and if it is an overpay than so be it. All im saying is that we need to sign Napoli and not Corey Hart to play 1B. And then go out and get another bat that plays OF to make this lineup as dangerous as last years and if they have to overpay then spend spend spend if it makes us a better team. I hope to see in my lifetime the Sox to go on a run of championships and eventually surpass the MFY in titles. We are only a couple of pieces away from really contending again. So i say spend Ben spend the $ on players soon to field on a repeat title team.

 

Dupree, User keeps talking about reading comprehension but apparently doesn't practice what he preaches. Your missive was easy to read and to follow but since it was more than two or three sentences it became an arduous enterprise for the guy to read. Now he is trying to tell me that I never said Ells was going to the Yankees when I kept saying it and warning everyone along with Mark that there was where he was going. Anyway, take it with a grain of salt. Good post.

[User Name]

Dupree, User keeps talking about reading comprehension but apparently doesn't practice what he preaches. Your missive was easy to read and to follow but since it was more than two or three sentences it became an arduous enterprise for the guy to read. Now he is trying to tell me that I never said Ells was going to the Yankees when I kept saying it and warning everyone along with Mark that there was where he was going. Anyway, take it with a grain of salt. Good post.

 

Fred, i do practice what i preach, and i obviously meant what i said. The whole point of my post (which you probably didn't read) was that neither are the Sox frugal nor do we want them to be. But nice try.

 

On the whole "ooh ooh i predicted where Ellsbury was going to land" thing, i'm just yanking your chain. I couldn't give two shits either way. Bad post.

[User Name]

On topic: Ellsbury received a no-trade clause in his deal, but the famous option year has not been agreed upon yet (per Jayson Stark). There are conflicting reports on this, since Tim Brown says it's a 16 million dollar team option with a 5 million buyout.

[Bellhorn04]

On topic: Ellsbury received a no-trade clause in his deal, but the famous option year has not been agreed upon yet (per Jayson Stark). There are conflicting reports on this, since Tim Brown says it's a 16 million dollar team option with a 5 million buyout.

 

Maybe it's just me, but the option year in a deal like this seems so irrelevant. Whether your projections for Ellsbury are on the positive or negative side, it's hard to imagine him kicking ass all the way into the year 2021.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Okay, this thing where everyone begins their replies with the name of the person they are replying to needs to stop. We all know who you are talking to. That's what the quoting function is for. It just comes across as pretentious, and this is coming from the most pretentious person on this site.

 

Also, the first three posts in this sequence (dupree's, UN's reply, dupree's counter-reply, and UN's final reply) were all good posts. Take out the obnoxious personal attacks in the first sentences (dumbest thing I've ever heard from UN and typical dick from dupree) and it was a perfectly acceptable and reasonably intelligent baseball discussion. I don't know why everyone needs to add those prefaces, but you should all stop. Fred, other than those first sentences I mentioned this was a legitimate baseball discussion until you dropped in with an insulting post that added absolutely nothing to the discussion. I don't like UN any more than you do (in fact, I probably like him even less than you do), but there was no reason at all for your post. I can't count how many times you have "complained" about UN doing that exact same thing to you.

 

From now on, whenever any of you make a post, stop and ask yourself "Can I make this point without adding something about how stupid or annoying the other person is?" If the answer is no, then your point probably wasn't all that necessary to make in the first place.

 

In conclusion, either stop insulting each other and ignore each other when you do, or insult each other until you either burn out or I ban you, but stop PMing me and asking me why I'm not banning the people who do to you the same goddamn thing you do to them.

 

 

 

Now, as for my take on the Ellsbury situation, I don't pretend to know as much about the intricacies of contracts and trades as the rest of you, but I feel like this is neither a loss nor a win for the Sox OR the Yankees. It's too early to tell if the Yankees will regret this signing, but I have every confidence that the Sox can field a team capable of repeating without Ellsbury. The Sox won a WS after they lost Pedro Martinez, Johnny Damon, Manny Ramirez, Jason Varitek, Kevin Millar, Nomar Garciaparra, Keith Foulke, Jonathan Papelbon, Josh Beckett, Bill Mueller...you get the point. No one player is going to plunge the team into the Dark Ages of Cubs-like baseball. It's going to suck seeing such a great guy in pinstripes, but we'll get over it. I'm already mostly over it. JBJ might be a good replacement this year, or he might not. Either way, treating this like the end of the world is silly, and immediately assuming the Yankees will regret the contract is even sillier and smacks of reactionary hopes rather than analysis. I happen to agree with some of you that 7 years will probably be too much, but it's too soon to tell. He hasn't even played yet. Let's not dwell on what this does for the Yankees, let's focus on what to do for the Red Sox.