2014 Roster Projections

[iortiz]

Sorry, but complaining about missing the playoffs a few years IS bitching. They won the WS 3 times in a decade. Lighten up.

 

Hahaha really MVP? Come on man! Get over it!

 

Again, I'm not complaining/bitching or whatever you want to call it at all. I'm happy, trust me, just like you I guess. I'm just pointing out the fact that we missed for almost half of a decade POs. As mi compadre said, It would be just the same if you pointed out other facts like Salty's issue at throwing out base runners or Drew's pathetic O-line in POs although both were big contributors to our World Championship.

Edited November 29, 2013 by iortiz

[mvp 78]

They just won a WS and you still need to bitch about the FO. It's hilariously dumb.

 

It's just funny how even winning theWS doesn't change any of your mindsets. Two sides of the iortiz coin: complains that the 2013 team is terrible/complains about past years when they win the WS in 2013.

 

It's fine I guess.

[iortiz]

They just won a WS and you still need to bitch about the FO. It's hilariously dumb.

 

It's just funny how even winning theWS doesn't change any of your mindsets. Two sides of the iortiz coin: complains that the 2013 team is terrible/complains about past years when they win the WS in 2013.

 

It's fine I guess.

You just have to bitch about people bitching even if they are not bitching at all, don't you?

Edited November 29, 2013 by iortiz

[Palodios]

The Red Sox don't need Cano... But I would be perfectly okay with them talking to his representation and telling him they are welcome to use the organization as leverage against the Yankees in negotiations.

[User Name]

I'm sure Cano's representation already knows this. Like you, i don't see the fit for Cano. He's going to get a stupid contract he won't live up to.

[marklmw]

The Red Sox don't need Cano... But I would be perfectly okay with them talking to his representation and telling him they are welcome to use the organization as leverage against the Yankees in negotiations.

 

We do have a need at 1B a position typically reserved for a top tier hitter. Cano meets this need better than any player out there. By signing Cano we are turning the tables on the Yankees. So what if the Yankees sign Ellsbury if Cano is not in the heart of the lineup to knock him in. Don't you see the brilliance in this type of move. The Yankees stole the Babe from the Sox ... now the Sox steal Cano from the Yankees ... Cano is not Ruth but who is ... Cano is however a future HOFer.

Have you looked at Cano's numbers in Fenway ... they are pretty dam good. Cano has proven himself that he can play on the big stage, he is durable, he is the perfect player for Boston. Also, in my gut becoming the 1B while playing with Pedoria and Papi will be a good influence on him. Napoli produced a WAR of 4 last year ... he had his share of errors at 1B also. People seem to forget that the Napoli thread on here was about Napoli playing himself out of the lineup. Cano is a huge upgrade over Napoli and he would become the top 1B in the league. His chances of remaining a highly effective player will increase with a move from 2B to 1B. If he averages a WAR of 5 for the 8 year period he is worth the signing. Always fear the Yankees ... when you have a chance to set the Yankees back for a number of years you take it.

[marklmw]

While it seems like a pipe dream I love the idea. Plus Cano playing at 1B, would help to keep him healthy for most part of the contract.

 

Exactly, Let the Yankees continue to insult Cano with a 168M/7 year deal until he gets pissed off and signs with the Sox just to prove his point. It could work.

Sox come in and say ... come play in Boston ... our team is set-up to win for the next 8 years. We love your skills and want you on our team. You have 3 hours to decide otherwise we are moving in another direction. You are right that Cano would be foolish not to stay a Yankee. NY is Jay-Z's romping grounds and allowing Cano to leave for Boston would not endear him with anyone. Cano should do his best to be like Jeter and Rivera and never wear another jersey except the NYY. That being said man is at his weakest when he lets pride get in his way and so you have to play on Cano's emotion and point out to him that Hal is being insulting to him etc. Nothing in this world is absolute.

[marklmw]

I'm sure Cano's representation already knows this. Like you, i don't see the fit for Cano. He's going to get a stupid contract he won't live up to.

Of the 100M it cost to sign Dice K .. he probably only earned 30M of it. Boston managed to survive and thrive none the less. You have good and bad deals all the time. If there is one player you can bet on for the next 8 years it would be Cano ... especially if he agrees to play 1B. Just pencil him in for 160 games each year and let him do his thing at the plate. This would be a historic signing. How can you not want to stick it big time to the Yankees.

[marklmw]

You just have to bitch about people bitching even if they are not bitching at all, don't you?

 

Hey guys and gals ... why all the personal attacks on here ... it makes no sense at all. Is everyone supposed to fit in some type of mold. Let people be themselves and have some tolerance for each others point of view.

[User Name]

Of the 100M it cost to sign Dice K .. he probably only earned 30M of it. Boston managed to survive and thrive none the less. You have good and bad deals all the time. If there is one player you can bet on for the next 8 years it would be Cano ... especially if he agrees to play 1B. Just pencil him in for 160 games each year and let him do his thing at the plate. This would be a historic signing. How can you not want to stick it big time to the Yankees.

 

Cano significantly loses value if he moves from 2B to 1B. A significant portion of his value is tied to his position. As a 1B he'd be very good, but not elite or best in the game, therefore not a candidate to make elite position player money.

 

Also, no, Cano is not the "one player you can bet on for the next 8 years". He's in his 30's, and you'd need for him to stay in a MIF position and play it at least competently for his contract to make sense.

 

Also, so you're saying that because the Sox made a s***** signing once and lived through it they should continue to do so? That's awful logic. I'd like to see them stick it to the Yankees to, but not by handcuffing themselves to a dumb contract like the A-Rod one. That doesn't make any sense.

[marklmw]

Cano significantly loses value if he moves from 2B to 1B. A significant portion of his value is tied to his position. As a 1B he'd be very good, but not elite or best in the game, therefore not a candidate to make elite position player money.

 

Also, no, Cano is not the "one player you can bet on for the next 8 years". He's in his 30's, and you'd need for him to stay in a MIF position and play it at least competently for his contract to make sense.

 

Also, so you're saying that because the Sox made a s***** signing once and lived through it they should continue to do so? That's awful logic. I'd like to see them stick it to the Yankees to, but not by handcuffing themselves to a dumb contract like the A-Rod one. That doesn't make any sense.

 

You make good points UN ... Cano's OPS was 12th in the majors in 2013. I am saying that Cano is more of a sure thing than Dice K ... and to what is the realistic down side to Cano ... I think realistically Cano's value will be some place between 160M and 240M over the next 8 years. Would it be the end of the world if Cano only delivered 160M worth of value? That would be a minus 5M per year ... the same price we paid for Bailey for the past 2 seasons. I would never enter a deal without accessing the floor and the ceiling. I agree that you do not make a bad deal because you have made bad deals in the past. If the Sox can get 1 or 2 more championships over the next 8 years it will be worth taking on Cano. Cano is durable and his offensive numbers can improve playing 1B. Last time I checked Joey Votto is not available and if he were he would cost a ton of top prospects. Cano will cost 1 draft pic = compensation pick we get for Napoli.

Edited November 29, 2013 by marklmw

[Palodios]

Of the 100M it cost to sign Dice K .. he probably only earned 30M of it. Boston managed to survive and thrive none the less. You have good and bad deals all the time. If there is one player you can bet on for the next 8 years it would be Cano ... especially if he agrees to play 1B. Just pencil him in for 160 games each year and let him do his thing at the plate. This would be a historic signing. How can you not want to stick it big time to the Yankees.

 

In dicek's 6 year contract he had two respectable years and four bad ones. How many playoff games did they win during those bad years ? 0.

[a700hitter]

You just have to bitch about people bitching even if they are not bitching at all, don't you?

Bitching about bitching is bitching and really really stupid, but it is his reason for being.

[iortiz]

Exactly, Let the Yankees continue to insult Cano with a 168M/7 year deal until he gets pissed off and signs with the Sox just to prove his point. It could work.

Sox come in and say ... come play in Boston ... our team is set-up to win for the next 8 years. We love your skills and want you on our team. You have 3 hours to decide otherwise we are moving in another direction. You are right that Cano would be foolish not to stay a Yankee. NY is Jay-Z's romping grounds and allowing Cano to leave for Boston would not endear him with anyone. Cano should do his best to be like Jeter and Rivera and never wear another jersey except the NYY. That being said man is at his weakest when he lets pride get in his way and so you have to play on Cano's emotion and point out to him that Hal is being insulting to him etc. Nothing in this world is absolute.

 

LOL sounds like a movie called "The perfect plan" or something like that.

 

I only would consider a handful of players in order to make that kind of investment. Cano is definitely in my list.

 

Still the money the teams are paying for some baseball players is ridiculous to me but if they can afford them and still full their greedy pockets then I don't see why not pay.

 

Unfortunately I don't see that happening anyway, Mark.

Edited November 29, 2013 by iortiz

[a700hitter]

DiceK being compared to Cano? Oh come on. Cano is a great offensive player. The guy is a pure hitter. We talk about him playing first base, but with Cano's arm we should consider the possibilty of him playing 3rd. He would have a higher value at 3rd.

[Bellhorn04]

DiceK being compared to Cano? Oh come on. Cano is a great offensive player. The guy is a pure hitter. We talk about him playing first base, but with Cano's arm we should consider the possibilty of him playing 3rd. He would have a higher value at 3rd.

 

You don't seriously think there's any chance of this happening though, right?

[iortiz]

In dicek's 6 year contract he had two respectable years and four bad ones. How many playoff games did they win during those bad years ? 0.

 

D-K probably was the reason/pioneer/starter of that Tito's silly 7R rule. LOL.

 

He definitely was one of several reasons we didn't make the POs in those years.

Edited November 29, 2013 by iortiz

[a700hitter]

You don't seriously think there's any chance of this happening though, right?

No, I don't think there is a chance of getting Cano, but it is the hot stove season-- the time for imaginations to run amok.

[marklmw]

LOL sounds like a movie called "The perfect plan" or something like that.

 

I only would consider a handful of players in order to make that kind of investment. Cano is definitely in my list.

 

Still the money the teams are paying for some baseball players is ridiculous to me but if they can afford them and still full their greedy pockets then I don't see why not pay.

 

I don't see that happening anyway, Mark.

 

I agree ... I do not see it happening either but it would be one gutsy move. Professional sports are considered part of the entertainment business. Cano is a top name and if anyone says that he will not be an asset to our team well I will not be insulting to them but you can read between the lines. Just because the Sox messed up with the Crawford signing it does not mean that they can never made a big signing again. Crawford was not a need ... he did nothing special in the field and he was not a need at the top of the order. Cano can be slotted into the 2, 3, or 4 slot immediately and remain there for the next 8 years. The Sox are operating from a position of strength but there is no need to go into a prevent defense ... we all know how that usually turns out. Bogaerts, WMB, JBJ, Owens, Barns, Cecchini, Vasquez, Workman, Webster, etc. will all be underpaid for quite a while. 500K in 2014 for Bogaerts, WMN, & JBJ. Peavy and Dempster are coming off the books in 2015. Hanrahan & Bailey will be off the books in 2014. Miller will be back at an affordable price.

 

I am fairly confident that Cano will earn 25M per over 8 years playing at 1B and also as a backup to Pedroia should he be out for any number of reasons. I do not understand the mind set that Boston can not use a star like Cano. Most fans on this board do not want Tanaka either while NYY want both players. We have a chance to do something really special over the next 5 years ... having Cano on the team only improves the probability of making this happen. How can anyone deny this.

What happened last year is not necessary a formula for future success ... it happened yes ... the stars were aligned ... but we had 4 FA's playing for their next big payday. Cano just turned 31 in October. An 8 year contract takes him to age 38. Boston should do something bold and sign Cano.

[Palodios]

The other question we should be asking is... how much worse will the free agent market get in the next few years?

 

The best guys available after 2014 are Hanley, Gardner, Robertson, Butler, Sandoval. Trying to outbid the Yanks and Dodgers, great. Then two future DH's who have been OPSing around .800. With the limited number of quality free agents, maybe getting the best in a year like this might be worth it -- especially with some of the other big money teams low on cash, although Choo or Ellsbury seem like better targets.

[mvp 78]

With the Sox farm system being stocked, going after a FA isn't the only way to bring new talent in.

[marklmw]

The other question we should be asking is... how much worse will the free agent market get in the next few years?

 

The best guys available after 2014 are Hanley, Gardner, Robertson, Butler, Sandoval. Trying to outbid the Yanks and Dodgers, great. Then two future DH's who have been OPSing around .800. With the limited number of quality free agents, maybe getting the best in a year like this might be worth it -- especially with some of the other big money teams low on cash, although Choo or Ellsbury seem like better targets.

 

Certainly when I throw out 200M for Cano it makes 100M for Ellsbury much more palatable. However ... one is for 8 years and the other for 5-6. Cano gives the team legit power number and a great OBP & OPS. Cano at first base is a safer play as everyone on this forum keeps informing me that Ellsbury's legs are going to fall off in 3 years from now. Cano going forward is Ortiz in the past but Cano will play a very high level first base. Where would Boston be today without Ortiz? Ortiz is not going to be here forever .... luckily 2 more productive seasons. WMB is a big question mark now. Cano is going to give us some pretty consistent numbers. Furthermore ... winning your division matters and NYY will always be in our division. To say that obtaining Cano just to hurt the Yankees is lame, it does not hurt the Yankees at all if Cano was a bum. How can improving your club while hurting your biggest division rival at the same time be considered a bad thing ... someone answer this? Cano is a great opportunity that the Sox should take a look at. I think that the ones saying no to Cano are just a little envious that they haven't thought of it themselves.

Edited November 29, 2013 by marklmw

[marklmw]

With the Sox farm system being stocked, going after a FA isn't the only way to bring new talent in.

The best teams are built with a combination of youth and experience. We have tons of youth coming and Ortiz will not be around forever. Why do you care about what Cano is being paid if the team is a position to afford him. Last time I looked Boston was considered a big market team.

[SoxSport]

On Cano, the Red Sox are out of the long term contract business. The reason why they probably won't sign Ellsbury. They got bailed out by the Dodgers last time, and they won't make that mistake again. They signed a few guys short term last year, mixed in some role players and prospects for depth, straightened out their pitching and won a World's Championship.

 

The key to short term contracts is the farm system. You got to have replacement players for the guys you lose to free agency. I don't know who straightened out their front office, but they are on the right track now. Stay thrifty.

[marklmw]

On Cano, the Red Sox are out of the long term contract business. The reason why they probably won't sign Ellsbury. They got bailed out by the Dodgers last time, and they won't make that mistake again. They signed a few guys short term last year, mixed in some role players and prospects for depth, straightened out their pitching and won a World's Championship.

 

The key to short term contracts is the farm system. You got to have replacement players for the guys you lose to free agency. I don't know who straightened out their front office, but they are on the right track now. Stay thrifty.

I agree to an extent. If we had players on the farm right now who are projected to replace Ortiz power numbers then you are correct ... I do not think that we do. Ortiz was a very lucky pick-up and a big mistake by the Twins for releasing him. Remember that in 3 years from now Ortiz's production and his payroll will no longer be with the club. Thrifty is good when you add some complimentary players around your stars. Cano should give us Ortiz type numbers going forward ... how is this a bad thing. Boston is a big market team and for a big market team being thrifty means staying beneath the Luxury tax which the Sox can do with Cano as a member of our team. Since we have JBJ coming up I would prefer to have Cano at 25m per then Ellsbury at 20M per.

[mvp 78]

The best teams are built with a combination of youth and experience. We have tons of youth coming and Ortiz will not be around forever. Why do you care about what Cano is being paid if the team is a position to afford him. Last time I looked Boston was considered a big market team.

 

Last time I looked, every long term top dollar contract was wasted money in the end.

[User Name]

Last time I looked, every long term top dollar contract was wasted money in the end.

 

Pujols' first 100 million contract was possibly the only one we can assume was a non-roided exception.

[marklmw]

You don't seriously think there's any chance of this happening though, right?

Why can't it happen. Come in at the last hour and make it happen. Worse case would be the Yankees having to match or exceed our offer.

[User Name]

Why can't it happen. Come in at the last hour and make it happen. Worse case would be the Yankees having to match or exceed our offer.

 

Because:

 

A) What makes you think Cano will change positions? He's arguably the best 2B in the game.

 

B ) The Red Sox FO knows that as a 1B, Cano's value diminishes tremendously, making this a horrible idea.

 

C) Pretty much no big-money contract to a player about to exit his prime has been even remotely successful. Ever.

[marklmw]

If Cano put up average numbers comparable to Ortiz's 2013 offensive season over the next 8 years while playing a high level 1B would he be worth 25M per?