10/8 ALDS game 4 @ the toilet that is the Trop.

[a700hitter]

I said it in the 6th inning, but win-or-lose, that was one helluva game. 13 different pitchers. No team had a lead larger than 1 run until the 9th inning. Solid defense from everyone and several double plays. The game was won by future star Xander Bogaertz, and the series lost by future star Will Myers. It was a nail-biter till the end.

The kid showed a lot of plate discipline in those 2 ABs. It was a good thing for him to get into the series and play a key role and be successful. That has to help the kid's acclimation process in the major league.

[User Name]

"And once again, the Ninja from the land of the Rising Sun cometh forth from the land of Bullpen and proceeded to smite the oppressors from the land of the south with strikes of fire from his hands."

 

"And the women and children from the land of the north danced in the streets and the bearded ones rejoiced amongst the people of the Nation."

 

"And we saw that it was good."

 

--- from The Book of Will

 

Written by a guy called WillFromVirginia in the mlb.com comments section of the article "Roster full of talent lends synergy to Red Sox" by Richard Justice. Glorious.

[Beaneater]

the series [was] lost by the whole wretched Rays franchise

 

Fixed it, as they say, for you.

 

I'm stunned at how poorly the Rays played during the whole series. Wild pitches, bobbles, airmailed throws, mental mistakes, you name it. I guess it's a testimony to the level of talent on the Rays' squad that it was even that close.

 

I'm guessing that we're not going to get as many gifts in the next series, no matter who we play.

[Palodios]

Fixed it, as they say, for you.

 

I'm stunned at how poorly the Rays played during the whole series. Wild pitches, bobbles, airmailed throws, mental mistakes, you name it. I guess it's a testimony to the level of talent on the Rays' squad that it was even that close.

 

I'm guessing that we're not going to get as many gifts in the next series, no matter who we play.

 

It seemed that way for the first few games but the last two seemed much cleaner. It probably didn't hurt that ellsbury and Vic were such distractions on the base paths. The Red Sox saw so many fastballs this series.

[sk7326]

Fixed it, as they say, for you.

 

I'm stunned at how poorly the Rays played during the whole series. Wild pitches, bobbles, airmailed throws, mental mistakes, you name it. I guess it's a testimony to the level of talent on the Rays' squad that it was even that close.

 

I'm guessing that we're not going to get as many gifts in the next series, no matter who we play.

 

Well, we thought Tampa would not give gifts either. The series was defined by the Sox outdoing the Rays at the stuff Tampa is good at, pitching, defense. And then the offense was relentless - even last night when they weren't scoring they were making one hard inning after another.

[mvp 78]

It seemed that way for the first few games but the last two seemed much cleaner. It probably didn't hurt that ellsbury and Vic were such distractions on the base paths. The Red Sox saw so many fastballs this series.

 

Game 4: 1 run off wild pitch, 1 run off Zobrist throwing error

Game 5: 1 run off passed ball

[SoxSport]

Good to be out of that place. Vic and Ells clearly sparks in smallball game to counter Rays. Plus they have the pitching. Farrell pressing the right buttons. Suspect we'll see more of Bogaerts platoon with Drew from now on vs lefties.

 

Now the hope is the Tigers can knock off the pesky As. Another Rays type team. Miggy is clearly not himself, and that takes a lot away from their hitting. Verlander seems to have notched it up, but their bullpen is suspect. Like their chances better with the Tigers. The As are a big pain in the ass at home, like the Rays. Can't figure why fatty Colon hasn't been banned for steroids.

[a700hitter]

Good to be out of that place. Vic and Ells clearly sparks in smallball game to counter Rays. Plus they have the pitching. Farrell pressing the right buttons. Suspect we'll see more of Bogaerts platoon with Drew from now on vs lefties.

 

Now the hope is the Tigers can knock off the pesky As. Another Rays type team. Miggy is clearly not himself, and that takes a lot away from their hitting. Verlander seems to have notched it up, but their bullpen is suspect. Like their chances better with the Tigers. The As are a big pain in the ass at home, like the Rays. Can't figure why fatty Colon hasn't been banned for steroids.

The Tigers have a big weakness with Beniot closing out games. He almost choked away a 4 run 9th inning lead yesterday. Their starters are formidable, but their pen is questionable. I think that their key guy in the upcoming series will be Smyly out of their pen. As he goes, so go the Tigers fortunes.

[sk7326]

Oh, I definitely would rather have the A's ... less bat-missing starting pitching. And yes, while their park robs us of power, it robs them too. And our outfield defense is solid enough to take advantage of all those fly balls that die in the outfield.

 

That said, there are no "upsets" in baseball playoffs. Just happy to still be ticking.

 

Boegarts came in handy in a tough spot - I don't think this changes the rotation but it might make it easier for Farrell to lift Drew in a matchup situation. Good composure in a situation where the temptation to press was high.

[Beaneater]

Well, we thought Tampa would not give gifts either.

 

True enough. They were the last team I would have expected gifts from.

 

However, the science of statistics tells me that since we got so many gifts from the Rays, we won't get any from the A's/Tigers. That is what statistics says, right?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Oh, I definitely would rather have the A's ... less bat-missing starting pitching. And yes, while their park robs us of power, it robs them too. And our outfield defense is solid enough to take advantage of all those fly balls that die in the outfield.

 

That said, there are no "upsets" in baseball playoffs. Just happy to still be ticking.

 

Boegarts came in handy in a tough spot - I don't think this changes the rotation but it might make it easier for Farrell to lift Drew in a matchup situation. Good composure in a situation where the temptation to press was high.

 

Not like Comerica is a hitters park, either, to be fair.

 

I'm ok with either team, to be honest.

 

Miggy's injury has really zapped his power, he can't get nearly as much torque in his swing. The Tigers SP is excellent, but it's exclusively RHP, which I certainly like.

 

Plus, Verlander goes tomorrow, Scherzer threw 47 pitches last night, high stress pitches at that. Will he be able to go on 3 days rest? Probably. But Verlander won't be going until Game 3 at the earliest, which is a big deal for this series.

 

Anibal Sanchez looked awful in game 3. And if you can get any of these SP out of the game early, the Tigers have horrible middle relief.

 

Should be interesting. Regardless, the Sox are really positioned well, with Lester and the rest of the staff well rested for the series while the Tigers/A's will have to figure out their rotation.

 

Looking back at the Rays/Sox series, this could not have worked out better for the Sox. All 4 pitchers were able to go, so Peavy isn't sitting there on 18 days rest anymore.

[SoxSport]

One thing I'll say about Farrell: he's always thinking in the dugout--always has an explanation for every move. A healthy contrast to Francoma. Tito's explanation was always manager's decision. And the media bought it.

[sk7326]

True enough. They were the last team I would have expected gifts from.

 

However, the science of statistics tells me that since we got so many gifts from the Rays, we won't get any from the A's/Tigers. That is what statistics says, right?

 

The science of statistics says it will all even out in the long run ... but to guess how it would is folly. The science tells us that a best of 7 (let alone 5) will tell us nothing about underlying quality ... especially in baseball where the starting pitching rotation means you are facing a different "team" every game.

[sk7326]

One thing I'll say about Farrell: he's always thinking in the dugout--always has an explanation for every move. A healthy contrast to Francoma. Tito's explanation was always manager's decision. And the media bought it.

 

It's not really a contrast - both worked in the same management structure. These are not opposing schools at all - Farrell bench coach is a former PawSox manager. So is his first base coach. This season has been more of a throwback to the 2007 days than any kind of rebuke of them.

[jacksonianmarch]

Surprised to see Colon go in game 5 vs the Tigers. I thought Gray was their most impressive pitcher thus far in these playoffs. They are going with their best guy during the regular season, but the hot hand is the way to go in elimination games. The Tigers are gonna run Verlander out there, and he looked back to his dominant self in his last start. I have a feeling the Tigers are coming out of that series with Scherzer and Sanchez starting games 1 and 2.

[redsoxrules]

Yeah that's quite interesting. Gray was a beast in that game 2.

[sk7326]

The extra travel day has definitely changed how managers are handling Game 4. With the extra day it allows you to have EITHER your #1 or #2 lined up with short rest. Detroit was able to exploit it with Scherzer as was LA with Kershaw. The Rays did to a degree too with Moore although Maddon was not taking any chances with asking for much inningswise from him. In particular, teams with a quality #2 starter now have an extra bullet to throw at Game 4.

[redsoxrules]

Surprised to see Colon go in game 5 vs the Tigers. I thought Gray was their most impressive pitcher thus far in these playoffs. They are going with their best guy during the regular season, but the hot hand is the way to go in elimination games. The Tigers are gonna run Verlander out there, and he looked back to his dominant self in his last start. I have a feeling the Tigers are coming out of that series with Scherzer and Sanchez starting games 1 and 2.

 

that actually hasn't been decided yet.

[Jasonbay44]

They actually just announced Gray will start.

[jung]

Hopefully Farrell will not forget XB's number now that he finally used him. Drew will start games against RH pitchers but Farrell has got to realize that he does have a legit tool in XB.

 

Give me the A's over the Tigers. I think the Tigers would be a tougher team to play even with Cabrera's issues and the closing problem in Detroit.

 

If Lester can be a monster again in upcoming game one, that would be huge whether the opponent is Detroit or Oakland. Game 1 is really meaningful in these 5 and 7 game series.

 

I wonder if there is a way we can get Eck and Don into these games instead of the turds we have been getting.

[seabeachfred]

Yeaha BTR .... I am enjoying the s*** out of this win. I thought we would be kicking ourselves for pitching to Longoria in game 3 ... now it no longer matters ... but please Farrell please please pitch around Miggy with first base open.

 

Look Mark, while this might sound like I'm beating a dead horse, the fact is that Farrell cannot make such a strategical mistake as he did with Longoria Monday evening. He himself said that he would not allow Longoria to beat him and guess what? That's what happened. First base was open, we had a three run lead and the question was who would you rather not have to face in that situation......Longoria with two on or Myers with the bags full? I think most of us know what answer we would have given.....even at that time.

[seabeachfred]

Wearing my lucky Red Sox Nation shirt today to school. Great win for the Sos. This team is special.

 

I wore my 2013 AL East Division Champion Red Sox shirt all day yesterday. I guess it didn't hurt the cause at all. Tomorrow I call two of my friends in Boston who work in hotels and have some connections for tickets. I would like to attend a game or two in Boston, either the first two or the last one or two. I haven't traveled out of state to see the Red Sox this year. I would like to do that now if I can get tickets, a hotel reservation and a plane flight.

Edited October 10, 2013 by seabeachfred

[seabeachfred]

It's not really a contrast - both worked in the same management structure. These are not opposing schools at all - Farrell bench coach is a former PawSox manager. So is his first base coach. This season has been more of a throwback to the 2007 days than any kind of rebuke of them.

 

Sk7, sorry my friend but there is a difference. Farrell will utilize his speed as he did so well last night. We have run more this year, hit and run more, bunted more, and move runners on a more consistent basis that when FrancoMa was in charge. With him it was station-to-station baseball and a total fear of giving away outs which always seems to be counter-balanced by the alarming amount of double plays the team hit into to kill one rally after another. The fact that we had strong hitting teams from 2004-2007 overcame that, but when the power declined starting in 2008 that type of strategy was exposed for the weakness that it was.

 

You only had to contrast last night's game with Farrell in charge with what we saw last week when the Guardians went against the Rays. Despite a large number of base runners, not once did FrancoMa turn them loose, not once did he try a steal, not once did he move a runner, not once did he hit and run......NOT ONCE DID THEY SCORE A RUN. We did some of those things last night in a close game and now we go to the ALCS while the Guardians are playing golf.

[Bellhorn04]

Look Mark, while this might sound like I'm beating a dead horse, the fact is that Farrell cannot make such a strategical mistake as he did with Longoria Monday evening. He himself said that he would not allow Longoria to beat him and guess what? That's what happened. First base was open, we had a three run lead and the question was who would you rather not have to face in that situation......Longoria with two on or Myers with the bags full? I think most of us know what answer we would have given.....even at that time.

 

I think Farrell hooked Peavy when he did last night out of respect for Longoria. He wanted Breslow to get Loney there so Longoria wouldn't be coming up with two men on. Breslow got Loney and Longoria led off the next inning instead.

[mvp 78]

Look Mark, while this might sound like I'm beating a dead horse, the fact is that Farrell cannot make such a strategical mistake as he did with Longoria Monday evening. He himself said that he would not allow Longoria to beat him and guess what? That's what happened. First base was open, we had a three run lead and the question was who would you rather not have to face in that situation......Longoria with two on or Myers with the bags full? I think most of us know what answer we would have given.....even at that time.

His reasoning: Longoria only had 1 rbi in 38 ab's against Buchholz and that he didn't want to load the bases on Buchholz and make him walk a tightrope against Myers. At the end of the day, he did a great job in game 4 and has brought a team from 69 wins to the ALCS. I can't complain too much.

[mvp 78]

I think Farrell hooked Peavy when he did last night out of respect for Longoria. He wanted Breslow to get Loney there so Longoria wouldn't be coming up with two men on. Breslow got Loney and Longoria led off the next inning instead.

 

Yup, Loney had been 10 for 30 against Peavy at that point. He wanted to hold off Loney and guessed right.

[sk7326]

Sk7, sorry my friend but there is a difference. Farrell will utilize his speed as he did so well last night. We have run more this year, hit and run more, bunted more, and move runners on a more consistent basis that when FrancoMa was in charge. With him it was station-to-station baseball and a total fear of giving away outs which always seems to be counter-balanced by the alarming amount of double plays the team hit into to kill one rally after another. The fact that we had strong hitting teams from 2004-2007 overcame that, but when the power declined starting in 2008 that type of strategy was exposed for the weakness that it was.

 

You only had to contrast last night's game with Farrell in charge with what we saw last week when the Guardians went against the Rays. Despite a large number of base runners, not once did FrancoMa turn them loose, not once did he try a steal, not once did he move a runner, not once did he hit and run......NOT ONCE DID THEY SCORE A RUN. We did some of those things last night in a close game and now we go to the ALCS while the Guardians are playing golf.

 

In 2008 and 2009 they were exposed as a Top 3 offensive team that averaged 95 wins a year?? Oh-kayyyy ... the Red Sox have been aggressive because they have the personnel to be opportunistic. This ain't the 1985 Cardinals or anything. The Red Sox stole 123 bases in 2013 ... they stole 120 in 2008 and 126 in 2009. What is different is the unsustainably crazy percentage (only caught 10 times all season). They have picked their spots beautifully. The station to station legend of 2007 is also not very true - 96 stolen bases, 7th in the AL. Hell, the go-go Red Sox of 2013 were 3rd in the AL in steals. 4th? The station to station Guardians.

 

Moving runners, hit and run ... they sound interesting but giving away outs is generally bad. They didn't score a run because they missed in a couple of key spots and Tampa pitched well - none of this is new fangled, this is stuff Earl Weaver figured out 40 years ago. Get baserunners, wait for the crooked number - that is higher percentage than over-bunting and wasting time on so-called productive outs. That it doesn't work all the time doesn't prove that it's not the right door to go through.

 

Last night's rally was thrilling. But it is much more a triumph of the stuff that carried the 2004-2010 era than it looks - zero extra base hits yes, but great at bat after great at bat ... sixteen baserunners in 9 innings and being able to shake off some really awful luck. The lineup and approach just wears down teams that whose pitchers aren't dialed in the entire way.

 

The team is a reflection on what a mistake it was to panic like they did in 2012 - this team has had a winning approach for the better part of a decade ... you just never know how October will shake out.

[jung]

Unless you are looking for one run late in the game leaving the opponent with little time to respond I don't much believe in the productive out. Maybe another instance would be with two strikes and runners in position to move up with less than two outs. But I would be pretty selective about applauding it there as well.

 

The specific hitter has something to do with it as well. You could have a hitter (especially in the NL) that looks like an out waiting to happen every time he steps to the plate. That might lead you to be satisfied with a productive out. But outs are rally killers and I do believe in rallies.

[sk7326]

Unless you are looking for one run late in the game leaving the opponent with little time to respond I don't much believe in the productive out. Maybe another instance would be with two strikes and runners in position to move up with less than two outs. But I would be pretty selective about applauding it there as well.

 

The specific hitter has something to do with it as well. You could have a hitter (especially in the NL) that looks like an out waiting to happen every time he steps to the plate. That might lead you to be satisfied with a productive out. But outs are rally killers and I do believe in rallies.

 

This. Basically there are times when you need one and only one run ... 9th inning, tie/down one ... other obvious spots. In the NL there is the pitcher coming up (why the notion the NL has more strategy is a little foolish - the manager has fewer options when one of their players is totally useless offensively).

 

But - and this Red Sox team (as the 2003-2009 vintages do also) show - you cannot give outs away. Your 27 outs is your team's time limit essentially - gotta make it count. The Sox with this collective approach, like the aforementioned teams or the Yankee title winners since 1998, it's like a fighter who just keeps leaning on you. Even if the knockout doesn't appear early, the body blows add up - it is just very very hard to keep the focus through the ordeal they put you through.

[sk7326]

The pitchers that can get the Sox are the guys who can pound the strike zone - and get a lot of swing and miss in the strike zone. Fortunately, that is a very short list of guys.