Rating Ben Cherington

[BigPapi]

This can certaintly change in the next month and a half left in the season, but we are gonna grade how good some of the key guys he acquired before this season for this season have performed so far.

 

This doesnt include all of them, but here are the main guys who I am including: Jonny Gomes, Stephen Drew, Koji Uehara, Mike Napoli, shane victorino, and ryan dempster.

 

A is if the player is playing well above what was expected

 

B is if the player is playing a little bit above what was expected

 

C is if the player is playing exactly as expected

 

D is if the player is playing below what was expected

 

F is if the player has been atrocious and just a completely bad pickup that Ben made

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Koji: A

Victorino:A-B

Gomes: B

Carp:B

Drew:B-C

Dempster:C-D

Napoli: C-D

Melancon:F

Bailey:F

Hanrahan:F

Edited August 11, 2013 by RedSoxfanforlife305

[VA Sox Fan]

No offense but there a tons of threads out here about Cherrington. Do you have to start a thread every time you have a thought/question/statement?

[BigPapi]

No offense but there a tons of threads out here about Cherrington. Do you have to start a thread every time you have a thought/question/statement?

 

I wasnt aware of one like this,

[Dojji]

No offense but there a tons of threads out here about Cherrington. Do you have to start a thread every time you have a thought/question/statement?

 

No offense, but I'd rather not top a 50 page thread every time someone has a new thought about any given topic.

[VA Sox Fan]

No offense, but I'd rather not top a 50 page thread every time someone has a new thought about any given topic.

 

Some of these newbies have started more threads in their short tenure here than I or even you have. You're guilty of it too.

[BigPapi]

No offense, but I'd rather not top a 50 page thread every time someone has a new thought about any given topic.

 

Well im sorry, im sorry. I thought this was America!! Haha.

[sk7326]

All of his moves this year have been solid or better, Hanrahan trade aside. He has been prepared for this gig for years - and it shows. Also it is hard to rate him, because he does work in a very weird front office - and there are moves (like last year's manager or the Dodgers trade) which were foisted upon him.

 

Really, how he handled the Dodgers trade showed me a lot. That was clearly a deal made at the ownership/Lucchino level reacting to negative criticism (as they often do). His team was able swoop in and make it an acceptable baseball trade. His ability to do the right things in the scouting-development-analytics areas, while reporting to people who probably are telling him all about how much they need NESN's ratings to increase, is good and underrated.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I don't get how a player playing worse than expected is Cherington's fault. If you sign a guy who is expected to hit 25-30HR and bat .290 (for example), and the guy hits ten HRs and hugs the Mendoza line, how the hell can you blame the GM for signing him? Blame the guy who sucks for sucking. This is my major issue discussing problems with the FO. It's like the fiasco of the last two years with the contracts of Crawford and Gonzalez. Yes, Crawford sucks, but who the hell expected him to? He was signed expecting him to be a great player because he was, in fact, a great player. The fact that he sucked shouldn't reflect on Theo's abilities as a GM, it should reflect on Crawford's abilities to not suck. The same should go for Cherington and any of the guys he signed, within reason.

 

I say within reason because GMs can make mistakes. Mike Cameron was a mistake, the man was as washed up as you can be without a bunch of hippies forming a bucket chain to keep you wet.

[SCM33]

No offense but there a tons of threads out here about Cherrington. Do you have to start a thread every time you have a thought/question/statement?

 

According to Dojji and others, we don't need megathreads......

 

Just think about it, an organized forum....who would ever want that? Id rather have a clusterf*** every time I log in.

[Youk Of The Nation]

There is no happy medium on this site. Either everyone is creating a new thread for every thought that pops into their head regardless of it's import, or they are bumping months-old threads to start a new discussion. Here's a quick guideline:

 

If a thread is no longer on the front page, you probably shouldn't bump it.

 

If something you want to say or discuss can be even slightly related to a thread that IS on the front page, put it in there.

 

If what you want to post is a statement and not a question, it would probably be just as well that you post it in the gamethread. "Ellsbury is en fuego" is a good example of this.

 

I'm going to cull the main page now and let's see if we can keep it tidy from now on, shall we?

[Jasonbay44]

I actually like the idea someone mentioned in another thread about having a thread for each player, or at least the ones important enough to be discussed. I feel like just having player threads would make the forum look much cleaner.

[jung]

I don't think just player threads would get it done but it seems like it would contribute mightily. Then again this comes from a guy that has started a grand total of one thread here and that was a game thread started when the guy that had the right to the game thread, simply could not make it.

[Lord Snow]

This can certaintly change in the next month and a half left in the season, but we are gonna grade how good some of the key guys he acquired before this season for this season have performed so far.

 

This doesnt include all of them, but here are the main guys who I am including: Jonny Gomes, Stephen Drew, Koji Uehara, Mike Napoli, shane victorino, and ryan dempster.

 

A is if the player is playing well above what was expected

 

B is if the player is playing a little bit above what was expected

 

C is if the player is playing exactly as expected

 

D is if the player is playing below what was expected

 

F is if the player has been atrocious and just a completely bad pickup that Ben made

 

I'll use my own rating system because some players have played as I expected but still not well.

 

Gomes: C- (.785 OPS from a left-fielder, .729 OPS vs LHP (what he was bought for))

 

Drew: C+ (.781 OPS)

 

Koji: A+ (no explanation needed)

 

Napoli: B (he's delivering about as expected, but not as hoped)

 

Victorino: C (.749 OPS for $13 million, no thanks)

 

Dempster: D (NL Pitcher. Ben should have read the scouting reports.)

[Bellhorn04]

I'll use my own rating system because some players have played as I expected but still not well.

 

Gomes: C- (.785 OPS from a left-fielder, .729 OPS vs LHP (what he was bought for))

 

Drew: C+ (.781 OPS)

 

Koji: A+ (no explanation needed)

 

Napoli: B (he's delivering about as expected, but not as hoped)

 

Victorino: C (.749 OPS for $13 million, no thanks)

 

Dempster: D (NL Pitcher. Ben should have read the scouting reports.)

 

How can you possibly give Napoli a higher grade than Drew or Gomes? Even by the crudest of measures that doesn't make sense. Drew and Gomes now have higher OPS's than Napoli. And don't forget that unless Napoli misses a bunch of time before the season ends he's going to get 13 million.

 

By WAR ratings, Drew and Victorino have emerged as solid values this year.

[jung]

Boy I really don't know how to project a hot streak for Napoli at this point unless they cut back on his games and he revitalizes as a result. I don't think he will regress farther but heck this is far enough isn't it? If he stayed right were he is right now for the remainder of the season, I think that would result in some pretty ugly numbers.

[sk7326]

I'll use my own rating system because some players have played as I expected but still not well.

 

Gomes: C- (.785 OPS from a left-fielder, .729 OPS vs LHP (what he was bought for))

 

Drew: C+ (.781 OPS)

 

Koji: A+ (no explanation needed)

 

Napoli: B (he's delivering about as expected, but not as hoped)

 

Victorino: C (.749 OPS for $13 million, no thanks)

 

Dempster: D (NL Pitcher. Ben should have read the scouting reports.)

 

Dempster - innings eater for a team without any - scouting reports said not as good as he showed in Chicago, not as bad as with Texas (lot of HR luck there) ... B-

 

Uehara - great value A+

 

Victorino - all of his WAR is in defense, contract rich for a potential platoon player down the line, but short hitch, B

 

Napoli - C. Average 1B right now, but could still be better.

 

Drew - A-. Excellent contract, quietly very good year.

 

Gomes - B+. For what he is, a bench bat - has been good. Excellent approach even if I wish he had made contact a little more.

[Lord Snow]

How can you possibly give Napoli a higher grade than Drew or Gomes? Even by the crudest of measures that doesn't make sense. Drew and Gomes now have higher OPS's than Napoli. And don't forget that unless Napoli misses a bunch of time before the season ends he's going to get 13 million.

 

By WAR ratings, Drew and Victorino have emerged as solid values this year.

 

Drew is making about 50% more than Napoli. That counts for something. Gomes isn't a full-time player. Napoli is slumping in August but was good in July with .860 OPS.

 

I see Napoli finishing the season with about an .800 OPS and 85 RBI, and that's worth $6M or whatever the Sox paid for him.

[Lord Snow]

Dempster - innings eater for a team without any - scouting reports said not as good as he showed in Chicago, not as bad as with Texas (lot of HR luck there) ... B-

 

Uehara - great value A+

 

Victorino - all of his WAR is in defense, contract rich for a potential platoon player down the line, but short hitch, B

 

Napoli - C. Average 1B right now, but could still be better.

 

Drew - A-. Excellent contract, quietly very good year.

Gomes - B+. For what he is, a bench bat - has been good. Excellent approach even if I wish he had made contact a little more.

 

Please explain how you determined Drew is having a "quietly very good year", and is an A-. Do you have any numbers to support this or do you just enjoy his smile?

[Bellhorn04]

Drew is making about 50% more than Napoli. That counts for something. Gomes isn't a full-time player. Napoli is slumping in August but was good in July with .860 OPS.

 

I see Napoli finishing the season with about an .800 OPS and 85 RBI, and that's worth $6M or whatever the Sox paid for him.

 

If Napoli stays healthy he'll get 12 or 13 million. His base contract is 5 million but he has a series of bonuses for days on active roster and plate appearances that can take him up to 13 million.

[jung]

I have thought for a long time now that Naps either hits his incentive clauses to $13M or gets close enough that it hardly matters. I think what we should be happy about is that we did not end up signing him for three years. That is looking like it would make the Chinese Water Torture look like a day in the park.

[sk7326]

Please explain how you determined Drew is having a "quietly very good year", and is an A-. Do you have any numbers to support this or do you just enjoy his smile?

 

On pace for a 3-4 win sort of season. Like Mark Bellhorn, strikes out so much that the good stuff is easy to miss. Gets on base a lot, plays an excellent shortstop - and a legitimately dangerous bat at the bottom of the order. For a one year flyer - he has been very good. I was settling for average, he has been legitimately good. Iglesias' first 2 months were seductive as all those balls found holes - but there is not really that much of a race as to who offered a better all around package at the position.

[SoxSport]

Ben is Henry's boy. The media knows that. Hence, Ben gets no criticism in the media. The media generally saves its ammunition for the manager, anyways. Besides, the FO isn't only Ben--it's a lot of people, plus his bosses.

 

Who is responsible for the Red Sox resurgence? The first place to look is the changes. The coaching and the manager have been excellent. And they have the backing of the whole organization. Which means the players are putting out. And the FO has added some experience (James et al), which they lacked last year.

 

They have made some good signings--and some bad ones. The bad one is Dempster. Waste of money. The others are good--especially Napoli's reduced 1 yr contract. Carp and Breslow have been good pickups. Bailey and Hanrahan have not worked out. Moving Bard to starter was a disaster. Signing Uehara has saved them at closer--for now. The Peavy trade is too early to call.

 

The FO still doesn't seem to sense the same urgency as a lot of the fans--and some of the media. There is a clear problem against LHP--not enough RHd hitting--or guys who hit left handers. So everybody has been waiting for Middlebrooks and/or Bogaerts to get called up. Middlebrooks finally got the call--it should have been a week or so earlier. Clearly, Bogaerts should be platooning with Drew at SS against LHP, but that hasn't happened yet. Bradley has disappeared from view, a guy with 5 tool potential who would improve their OF defense and put more speed into the lineup.

 

I don't yet see a commitment to pulling every stop to win this division. Rather, they still have one foot in the bucket that says "bridge season" on it--let's keep the prospects under wraps. I think the future arrived a bit too quickly for some.

Edited August 13, 2013 by SoxSport

[seabeachfred]

Ben is Henry's boy. The media knows that. Hence, Ben gets no criticism in the media. The media generally saves its ammunition for the manager, anyways. Besides, the FO isn't only Ben--it's a lot of people, plus his bosses.

 

Who is responsible for the Red Sox resurgence? The first place to look is the changes. The coaching and the manager have been excellent. And they have the backing of the whole organization. Which means the players are putting out. And the FO has added some experience (James et al), which they lacked last year.

 

They have made some good signings--and some bad ones. The bad one is Dempster. Waste of money. The others are good--especially Napoli's reduced 1 yr contract. Carp and Breslow have been good pickups. Bailey and Hanrahan have not worked out. Moving Bard to starter was a disaster. Signing Uehara has saved them at closer--for now. The Peavy trade is too early to call.

 

The FO still doesn't seem to sense the same urgency as a lot of the fans--and some of the media. There is a clear problem against LHP--not enough RHd hitting--or guys who hit left handers. So everybody has been waiting for Middlebrooks and/or Bogaerts to get called up. Middlebrooks finally got the call--it should have been a week or so earlier. Clearly, Bogaerts should be platooning with Drew at SS against LHP, but that hasn't happened yet. Bradley has disappeared from view, a guy with 5 tool potential who would improve their OF defense and put more speed into the lineup.

 

I don't yet see a commitment to pulling every stop to win this division. Rather, they still have one foot in the bucket that says "bridge season" on it--let's keep the prospects under wraps. I think the future arrived a bit too quickly for some.

 

SoxSport, you wonder if the Boston front office has gleaned anything brain wise from looking at the tea leaves in the Majors this season. Remember how the Natonals shut down Stratford (or whatever the hell is name is) late last season and used the excuse we'll be back in the playoffs again and again. Well guess what They are not making it this year and seem to be traveling in reverse. When you have a chance to win you take advantage of it and pull out all the stops to win the division and go deep in the Playoffs and let the chips fall where they may. Sure, we will have Bogey next season and Bradley too, but we will lose Ellsbury, Napoli and maybe Carp and Salty, so our offense may be actually weaker next year. There is now some suspicion that Jackie might have trouble hitting ML pitching consistently and who will play first base for us----and where are we going to get that big horse for the front of the rotation? We might actually go a little backwards next season until the starting lineup takes full form (2015? Maybe?) And we still will need some good starting pitchers not named Dumpster, Less-ster or Breakholz, who most likely might turn up lame next season as well. We have a chance to win something this year---GO FOR IT !!!!!! If a good starting pitcher suddenly materializes on the waiver wire---get him. No one expected us to be in this position but there we are and we should take full advantage of it.

[sk7326]

From a lot of the insider accounts - it really does seem like the baseball pros - Cherington and his staff - have had much more empowerment to work without the TV ratings people lording over them, power which did not exist last year. The decisions have been far less reactive, and the deals have been far less desperate. The coaching staff has gotten on the same page, and the manager deserves credit for not being a bozo.

 

The players who have always been good have been good - the guys who have been winners here until the injury plague of 2011-2012. What changed was a lot of bad luck sort of things have improved - Farrell has been able to put a fairly steady lineup on the field all season - and the rotation has suffered without Buchholz but has been pretty stable otherwise (even with his slide late, has been an underrated quality Dempster - and Lester - have provided). The team also got back to the OBP-driven, slow as molasses approach with tough at bat after tough at-bat.

 

Let's put it this way - we're all guessing with regards to "responsibility" for 2012 v 2013. But in 2013, all the moves smell like things the Red Sox Front Office of the mid-late 2000s would have done. 2012 resembled something a WEEI caller would do.

[Lord Snow]

From a lot of the insider accounts - it really does seem like the baseball pros - Cherington and his staff - have had much more empowerment to work without the TV ratings people lording over them, power which did not exist last year. The decisions have been far less reactive, and the deals have been far less desperate. The coaching staff has gotten on the same page, and the manager deserves credit for not being a bozo.

 

The players who have always been good have been good - the guys who have been winners here until the injury plague of 2011-2012. What changed was a lot of bad luck sort of things have improved - Farrell has been able to put a fairly steady lineup on the field all season - and the rotation has suffered without Buchholz but has been pretty stable otherwise (even with his slide late, has been an underrated quality Dempster - and Lester - have provided). The team also got back to the OBP-driven, slow as molasses approach with tough at bat after tough at-bat.

 

Let's put it this way - we're all guessing with regards to "responsibility" for 2012 v 2013. But in 2013, all the moves smell like things the Red Sox Front Office of the mid-late 2000s would have done. 2012 resembled something a WEEI caller would do.

 

The 2013 Red Sox were able to get rid of the deadwood from the 2012 Sox. That team had a bunch of negativity surrounding it starting with the hiring of Bobby Valentine. John Farrell was always the right man for the job if it wasn't going to be Francona, we got our man in 2013. Beckett had worn out his welcome. Crawford's contract debacle was just an enormous waste of resources that was always on everyone's mind.

 

In truth this team started to get better after last year's trade. Cherington brought in a lot of stop-gap style pieces, which is fine considering the strength of the Sox's farm system.

 

Stephen Drew has no place on this team in the future with the imminent arrival of Xander. 3rd base will be manned by Will Middlebrooks or Garin Cecchini sooner rather than later, and in an ideal world one will go to 1B or LF, and one to 3B. Cecchini is going to be a BBA top 25 prospect next year if he finishes off 2013 how he's started it, maybe even top 10.

[SoxSport]

Rizzo actually got a promotion this year after that disastrous decision last year about Strasburg. It was a classic example of the overmanaging of pitching that is rampant in Baseball these days. People doing things to "save arms" without knowing what the hell they are doing. It just shows you how difficult it is to criticize a GM. Managers, sure. But GMs? It's a case of the higher up you go, the more insulated you become.

[SoxSport]

The 2013 Red Sox were able to get rid of the deadwood from the 2012 Sox. That team had a bunch of negativity surrounding it starting with the hiring of Bobby Valentine. John Farrell was always the right man for the job if it wasn't going to be Francona, we got our man in 2013. Beckett had worn out his welcome. Crawford's contract debacle was just an enormous waste of resources that was always on everyone's mind.

 

In truth this team started to get better after last year's trade. Cherington brought in a lot of stop-gap style pieces, which is fine considering the strength of the Sox's farm system.

 

Stephen Drew has no place on this team in the future with the imminent arrival of Xander. 3rd base will be manned by Will Middlebrooks or Garin Cecchini sooner rather than later, and in an ideal world one will go to 1B or LF, and one to 3B. Cecchini is going to be a BBA top 25 prospect next year if he finishes off 2013 how he's started it, maybe even top 10.

 

The "negativity" was there long before Valentine was hired. He has become a convenient scapegoat for the mismanagement and dysfunction that caused the Red Sox downfall before he was hired. That they totally screwed up the hiring process after firing Tito was a testimony to that. The organization broke down.

 

Valentine took the millions and kept his mouth shut, like a good little soldier. He was the scape goat who got paid off for his silence.

 

MLB these days isn't just a bunch of players trying to win games. It's about scrambling any way you can to grab all those millions that TV is dropping on the sport--thanks largely to advertising and our cable bills.

[sk7326]

The "negativity" was there long before Valentine was hired. He has become a convenient scapegoat for the mismanagement and dysfunction that caused the Red Sox downfall before he was hired. That they totally screwed up the hiring process after firing Tito was a testimony to that. The organization broke down.

 

Valentine took the millions and kept his mouth shut, like a good little soldier. He was the scape goat who got paid off for his silence.

 

MLB these days isn't just a bunch of players trying to win games. It's about scrambling any way you can to grab all those millions that TV is dropping on the sport--thanks largely to advertising and our cable bills.

 

Valentine as a scapegoat has some truth, once again a comic level of injury derailed the team as much as anything. But when one considers how inept he was at managing his own coaching staff (I don't care if his players liked him) - that was a serious problem, and a poor reflection on him. (nobody in a real job would be allowed that garbage either)

 

The negativity was largely self-inflicted. Instead of a 90-72 team which lost a playoff bid on the shoulders of a team which had a month of poor pitching and started to run out of players generally - the management team listened to much to the soap operas fabricated by WEEI or Dan Shaughnessy and the like and were very reactionary. But it is seductive - nobody wants to say there was a lot of bad luck. 2012 the bad luck compounded, and then the trade + the injuries left them fielding a legitimately bad team. This year, a bunch of the unlucky has sort of shifted back to "about how it should be" and suddenly, a contender.

[sk7326]

The "negativity" was there long before Valentine was hired. He has become a convenient scapegoat for the mismanagement and dysfunction that caused the Red Sox downfall before he was hired. That they totally screwed up the hiring process after firing Tito was a testimony to that. The organization broke down.

 

Valentine took the millions and kept his mouth shut, like a good little soldier. He was the scape goat who got paid off for his silence.

 

MLB these days isn't just a bunch of players trying to win games. It's about scrambling any way you can to grab all those millions that TV is dropping on the sport--thanks largely to advertising and our cable bills.

 

Valentine as a scapegoat has some truth, once again a comic level of injury derailed the team as much as anything. But when one considers how inept he was at managing his own coaching staff (I don't care if his players liked him) - that was a serious problem, and a poor reflection on him. (nobody in a real job would be allowed that garbage either)

 

The negativity was largely self-inflicted. Instead of a 90-72 team which lost a playoff bid on the shoulders of a team which had a month of poor pitching and started to run out of players generally - the management team listened to much to the soap operas fabricated by WEEI or Dan Shaughnessy and the like and were very reactionary. But it is seductive - nobody wants to say there was a lot of bad luck. 2012 the bad luck compounded, and then the trade + the injuries left them fielding a legitimately bad team. This year, a bunch of the unlucky has sort of shifted back to "about how it should be" and suddenly, a contender.