The Young Guns

[User Name]

I get that you're excited, but why rush up Bogaerts? Patience please.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I get that you're excited, but why rush up Bogaerts? Patience please.

 

He's had 300 PA in AA where he's hitting .315/.389/.538. That's a .926 OPS in 75 games. He's a guy they've been aggressive with in terms of promotions in the past.

 

Pushing him to AAA right now isn't rushing him.

 

Pushing him to the MLB level by August 1 may be rushing him, but you could always play Iggy at SS for 15-20 games and get Bogaerts an extra 75 AB in AAA, but I don't think that, contingent on his success at AAA, he will be starting at SS by mid August is rushing him.

 

Look at Manny Machado. He had 109 games in AA where he didn't exactly light it up (.789 OPS) and he was promoted and did just fine, all while changing positions and playing at the age of 19 (in my estimation, Bogaerts will have 75 games in AA, 50 in AAA, so 125 games between AA and AAA, even more than Machado had at AA). Machado and Bogaerts are very similar talents.

[Standing Room]

He's had 300 PA in AA where he's hitting .315/.389/.538. That's a .926 OPS in 75 games. He's a guy they've been aggressive with in terms of promotions in the past.

 

Pushing him to AAA right now isn't rushing him.

 

Pushing him to the MLB level by August 1 may be rushing him, but you could always play Iggy at SS for 15-20 games and get Bogaerts an extra 75 AB in AAA, but I don't think that, contingent on his success at AAA, he will be starting at SS by mid August is rushing him.

 

Look at Manny Machado. He had 109 games in AA where he didn't exactly light it up (.789 OPS) and he was promoted and did just fine, all while changing positions and playing at the age of 19 (in my estimation, Bogaerts will have 75 games in AA, 50 in AAA, so 125 games between AA and AAA, even more than Machado had at AA). Machado and Bogaerts are very similar talents.

 

I would say it's rushing him, he's already the youngest guy in the league. It's not going to stunt his development to let him show he can hit like this over the next month, and then if he's still killing the ball he can be promoted.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I would say it's rushing him, he's already the youngest guy in the league. It's not going to stunt his development to let him show he can hit like this over the next month, and then if he's still killing the ball he can be promoted.

 

You do realize that he was promoted to AA last August, right? He's had 300 plate appearances in AA. That's plenty, and the success he's had shows that he's adjusted to their pitching and, frankly, isn't being challenged at all.

[Dojji]

Cherington has done a great job of restocking the minors, and I love the direction this team is headed in right now.

[User Name]

But but but.......Ben is a boob

[Dojji]

You do realize that he was promoted to AA last August, right? He's had 300 plate appearances in AA. That's plenty, and the success he's had shows that he's adjusted to their pitching and, frankly, isn't being challenged at all.

 

If Bogaerts was promoted now I would easily understand why it was happening and would not believe he was being rushed.

[User Name]

If Bogaerts was promoted now I would easily understand why it was happening and would not believe he was being rushed.

 

The problem isn't him being promoted to AAA. The problem is the whole "he should be starting in the Majors by August" talk. It's silly

[redsoxbeatz]

I get that you're excited, but why rush up Bogaerts? Patience please.

 

Moving him up would be consistent with how he has been managed his whole career.

[Standing Room]

You do realize that he was promoted to AA last August, right? He's had 300 plate appearances in AA. That's plenty, and the success he's had shows that he's adjusted to their pitching and, frankly, isn't being challenged at all.

 

I'm well aware. He's still the youngest guy in the league and he's just started to make adjustments to AA.

[Dojji]

The problem isn't him being promoted to AAA. The problem is the whole "he should be starting in the Majors by August" talk. It's silly

 

If he's putting up those numbers in AA over that sample size, the majors are in range, age be damned. They've proven that with Ellsbury, Lowrie and Masterson, and all of those guys have been effective for the most part.

 

If they don't move him up to MLB now it's because they're being cautious. This kid is a prodigious talent and I expect him to be moved to Pawtucket in the next handful of weeks.

[Standing Room]

If he's putting up those numbers in AA over that sample size, the majors are in range, age be damned. They've proven that with Ellsbury, Lowrie and Masterson, and all of those guys have been effective for the most part.

 

If they don't move him up to MLB now it's because they're being cautious. This kid is a prodigious talent and I expect him to be moved to Pawtucket in the next handful of weeks.

 

If he hits like this for the next three weeks, then it would be reasonable to promote him. There's no hurry, we don't currently have a spot for him so we have the luxury of being cautious. Ellsbury and Pedroia are different, they both went to college and had more advanced hitting approaches entering the minors.

[SoxFanForsyth]

If he hits like this for the next three weeks, then it would be reasonable to promote him. There's no hurry, we don't currently have a spot for him so we have the luxury of being cautious. Ellsbury and Pedroia are different, they both went to college and had more advanced hitting approaches entering the minors.

 

This is a bit crazy. Bogaerts approach at 20 is as good as Ells and Pedroia at 22. Just because he's 20 doesn't mean that he's not ready.

 

I would think that the past year has shown this to be true more than any I can remember. Look at Trout, Harper, Machado, Profar, Puig.

 

If he's ready, you don't just sit on him because he's 20. I am not saying bring him to the Sox tomorrow. I'm saying take him to Pawtucket tomorrow. He does have a spot at Pawtucket, especially with Iglesias likely sticking as the UTIL guy.

[SoxFanForsyth]

The problem isn't him being promoted to AAA. The problem is the whole "he should be starting in the Majors by August" talk. It's silly

 

What do you think is holding him back from being MLB read in 2-2.5 months?

[Standing Room]

This is a bit crazy. Bogaerts approach at 20 is as good as Ells and Pedroia at 22. Just because he's 20 doesn't mean that he's not ready.

 

I would think that the past year has shown this to be true more than any I can remember. Look at Trout, Harper, Machado, Profar, Puig.

 

If he's ready, you don't just sit on him because he's 20. I am not saying bring him to the Sox tomorrow. I'm saying take him to Pawtucket tomorrow. He does have a spot at Pawtucket, especially with Iglesias likely sticking as the UTIL guy.

 

It's not crazy at all, it takes more than demonstrating a skill such as a good approach at the plate for two months. Players need to commit the skill to muscle memory, otherwise they'll just revert back to their bad habits when they're challenged and frustrated. Honestly, what downside is there to keeping him in AA for another three weeks?

[User Name]

What do you think is holding him back from being MLB read in 2-2.5 months?

 

We don't quite know yet how he would react to AAA pitching, how ready he is defensively, if SS is the position he'll be playing in the majors etc. All of that can be examined and sorted out in due time.

[User Name]

Moving him up would be consistent with how he has been managed his whole career.

 

Did you read my follow-up post? I have no problem with moving him to AAA. But projecting him to be starting at SS for the big club in August.......not so sure.

[User Name]

If he's putting up those numbers in AA over that sample size, the majors are in range, age be damned. They've proven that with Ellsbury, Lowrie and Masterson, and all of those guys have been effective for the most part.

 

If they don't move him up to MLB now it's because they're being cautious. This kid is a prodigious talent and I expect him to be moved to Pawtucket in the next handful of weeks.

 

And how would being cautious be a bad thing? That's the whole point. What is YOUR point?

[SoxFanForsyth]

We don't quite know yet how he would react to AAA pitching, how ready he is defensively, if SS is the position he'll be playing in the majors etc. All of that can be examined and sorted out in due time.

 

How are any of these things items that keep him from the bigs?

 

Defensively, that's certainly things he can sort out at the MLB level. He's played fine throughout his entire minor league career, there are very few concerns about his defense, in fact, he's been improving significantly according to all the reports I read. The biggest factor against him was size, which again, are you going to wait until he's 28 and filled out and say "ok now you can go to the bigs because we figured out what position you're going to play?" That's not even a comprehensible reason.

 

Yes - we still need to see how he deals with AAA pitching but all indications are that he'll fare just fine. He's had incredible success at each level, and actually has had the most success in his career as he's supposed to be challenged the most (in AA).

 

These are not good reasons to say it's silly to think he could be MLB ready by August.

[Standing Room]

How are any of these things items that keep him from the bigs?

 

Defensively, that's certainly things he can sort out at the MLB level. He's played fine throughout his entire minor league career, there are very few concerns about his defense, in fact, he's been improving significantly according to all the reports I read. The biggest factor against him was size, which again, are you going to wait until he's 28 and filled out and say "ok now you can go to the bigs because we figured out what position you're going to play?" That's not even a comprehensible reason.

 

Yes - we still need to see how he deals with AAA pitching but all indications are that he'll fare just fine. He's had incredible success at each level, and actually has had the most success in his career as he's supposed to be challenged the most (in AA).

 

These are not good reasons to say it's silly to think he could be MLB ready by August.

 

He has a fielding percentage in the .940 this year and over his career. He still has work to do, it's not something that would be ideal to "sort out in the majors", especially considering we already have two shortstops there.

 

You've yet to give one good reason we it would hurt to be cautious with him, and multiple reasons have been provided why it would be good to be cautious.

[User Name]

They are excellent reasons. The problem is that the fanboy in you is too excited to see Bogaerts in the majors

 

There's more than enough reason to wait until he's a finished product to promote him to the Majors. I would be a lot more inclined to agree with you on the timetable if the Sox didn't have not one, but two capable SS on the roster. If the need arises due to injury or ineffectiveness however, then your timetable becomes more realistic.

 

But why would they get rid of Drew or Iglesias when they are both currently excelling on the field and at the plate?

[mvp 78]

Even if he's "ready," there's no need to rush him to Boston this year. He csn compete for a spot in ST next year. I don't see the harm in that.

 

Did Drew get traded or suffer a season ending injury that I didn't know about?

[SoxFanForsyth]

They are excellent reasons. The problem is that the fanboy in you is too excited to see Bogaerts in the majors

 

There's more than enough reason to wait until he's a finished product to promote him to the Majors. I would be a lot more inclined to agree with you on the timetable if the Sox didn't have not one, but two capable SS on the roster. If the need arises due to injury or ineffectiveness however, then your timetable becomes more realistic.

 

But why would they get rid of Drew or Iglesias when they are both currently excelling on the field and at the plate?

 

Well, for one thing, Iglesias is going to see an inevitable huge slump soon. His BABIP is over .500. So while he's capable, Bogaerts would be an upgrade by August.

 

And Drew is fine, he's playing well, but if you've got a guy who can provide as good or better production than him, you don't hold him back for a player on a 1 year deal. You get what you can get for Drew on the market if Bogaerts is forcing his way on the scene.

 

The upside that Bogaerts brings is insanely higher than Drew, and if he is having the same success in AAA as he's having in AA, you absolutely trade Drew and promote Bogaerts.

 

Just look at Middlebrooks last year. Same situation. Youkilis wasn't hurt anymore, and Middlebrooks forced his way on the scene.

[SoxFanForsyth]

He has a fielding percentage in the .940 this year and over his career. He still has work to do, it's not something that would be ideal to "sort out in the majors", especially considering we already have two shortstops there.

 

You've yet to give one good reason we it would hurt to be cautious with him, and multiple reasons have been provided why it would be good to be cautious.

 

It would hurt because he could be the 2007 Ellsbury, or the 2012 Machado. The guy who pushes your team above the rest of a very tight division and wild card race.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Even if he's "ready," there's no need to rush him to Boston this year. He csn compete for a spot in ST next year. I don't see the harm in that.

 

Did Drew get traded or suffer a season ending injury that I didn't know about?

 

No, but if you've got a top prospect in all of baseball who is killing it in AA and AAA (this is all under the assumption that he continues to hit after a promotion to Pawtucket), then your 1 year deal guy in Drew becomes expendable and you trade him.

[User Name]

...or he could struggle with his hitting/fielding, lose confidence and have to compete for a spot next year anyway. Then the FO would take a s***-ton of flack for mishandling prospects.

 

You have no way of knowing whether he's ready or not. All you're seeing is the offensive numbers he's putting up and disregarding everything else.

[Standing Room]

Well, for one thing, Iglesias is going to see an inevitable huge slump soon. His BABIP is over .500. So while he's capable, Bogaerts would be an upgrade by August.

 

And Drew is fine, he's playing well, but if you've got a guy who can provide as good or better production than him, you don't hold him back for a player on a 1 year deal. You get what you can get for Drew on the market if Bogaerts is forcing his way on the scene.

 

The upside that Bogaerts brings is insanely higher than Drew, and if he is having the same success in AAA as he's having in AA, you absolutely trade Drew and promote Bogaerts.

 

Just look at Middlebrooks last year. Same situation. Youkilis wasn't hurt anymore, and Middlebrooks forced his way on the scene.

 

It's pretty much the opposite of the Middlebrooks situation. Middlebrooks had 96 games at AA and 40 games at AAA, where he was hitting .333/.380/.677, and he was called up because we didn't have anyone to play third base. Bogaerts has 70 something games at AA, no games at AAA, and we have two players who can play shortstop.

 

Bogaerts will be promoted in a month if he continues to hit. If he then hits at AAA, he'll be called up in September. If he then hits in September, he has a chance for a spot on the playoff roster like Ellsbury did in 2007. This isn't rocket science.

[mvp 78]

It would hurt because he could be the 2007 Ellsbury, or the 2012 Machado. The guy who pushes your team above the rest of a very tight division and wild card race.

 

Machado had no one in front of him. Ellsbury had Coco Crap in front of him (who had an ops .040 less than Drew does and was having his worse pro season). The need for Xander to come up just isn't really there right now.

[SoxFanForsyth]

...or he could struggle with his hitting/fielding, lose confidence and have to compete for a spot next year anyway. Then the FO would take a s***-ton of flack for mishandling prospects.

 

You have no way of knowing whether he's ready or not. All you're seeing is the offensive numbers he's putting up and disregarding everything else.

 

Not at all. I'm saying if he continues this run of dominance into AAA, then he could well be our starting shortstop in August, and that it wouldn't surprise me if he was.

 

I'm not saying he's going to be, I'm simply saying it's a very real possibility. Maybe that's where there's a disconnect, and perhaps I didn't articulate it well in my original comment, I'll have to go back and look.

[mvp 78]

No, but if you've got a top prospect in all of baseball who is killing it in AA and AAA (this is all under the assumption that he continues to hit after a promotion to Pawtucket), then your 1 year deal guy in Drew becomes expendable and you trade him.

 

Then let's wait until he's destroying Pawtucket before we declare him ready to take over at SS.