Trades before the deadline?

[italstallianion]

The Sox do have plenty of jetsam left that could be Rule 5 fodder so that could be a potential benefit to a trade. I'm not sure what we'd do with our rotation when Buchholz comes back if we have Peavy, but if a deal consisting of something like Middlebrooks/Brentz/Workman can get a deal done I'd take it. I'm not sure if the White Sox would take it for Peavy/Crain. At the most of the top prospects I'd only be willing to give up one of Ranaudo/Barnes/Owens

[italstallianion]

I love the idea of signing Brian Wilson, I'm not sure about signing Gonzalez, at least in respect for this season. I wouldn't mind him for future seasons (I definitely like that we don't have posting fees like dealing with Japanese pitchers)

[SoxFanForsyth]

^ SFF is as optimistic a poster as we have on TS and he thinks it is a bridge year.

 

Just to be clear, just because I think it's a "bridge year" doesn't mean that I don't think we can make a very deep playoff push. All I am saying is that there are much better teams on the horizon, and very soon at that. The Sox did a great job of turning this team into a playoff and WS contender while letting the prospects continue to develop. It's a bridge year in that we have some serious talent on the cusp and when that talent arrives, those will be the teams that you can mortgage the future a bit more for short term success, but not this year. The fact that we're competitive this year is the gravy, not the mashed taters. The taters arrive next year.

[a700hitter]

Just to be clear, just because I think it's a "bridge year" doesn't mean that I don't think we can make a very deep playoff push. All I am saying is that there are much better teams on the horizon, and very soon at that. The Sox did a great job of turning this team into a playoff and WS contender while letting the prospects continue to develop. It's a bridge year in that we have some serious talent on the cusp and when that talent arrives, those will be the teams that you can mortgage the future a bit more for short term success, but not this year. The fact that we're competitive this year is the gravy, not the mashed taters. The taters arrive next year.

I didn't misunderstand you, but thanks for the clarification. I find the use of the term "bridge year" incongruent if we win the Division or a World Championship. If that is the bridge, I don't want to get off the bridge.

[Orange Juiced]

Just to be clear, just because I think it's a "bridge year" doesn't mean that I don't think we can make a very deep playoff push. All I am saying is that there are much better teams on the horizon, and very soon at that. The Sox did a great job of turning this team into a playoff and WS contender while letting the prospects continue to develop. It's a bridge year in that we have some serious talent on the cusp and when that talent arrives, those will be the teams that you can mortgage the future a bit more for short term success, but not this year. The fact that we're competitive this year is the gravy, not the mashed taters. The taters arrive next year.

 

I agree. Before this season started, we were all debating whether Cherington's moves were any good, etc. My argument was that this team has a very bright future, but that might be a couple of years away still. And in the meanwhile, they added some pretty decent players on short-term deals, so the team has a chance to be competitive and interesting this year, holding the fort for when all that talent arrives.

 

And yet they've turned out to be much more than just competitive. They've turned out to have one of the best teams in the majors. This has caught us all by surprise. So that future we have in front of us is still very much there. It's just that the present is way better than we thought it would be.

 

Now the trick for the front office is this: given that they're much better than expected NOW, do they sacrifice some of that incredibly bright future for a chance to go for it now? Should they just play this out with what they have and say, well, this went better than we thought so any postseason success is gravy? Can they forge a middle ground and go for it without sacrificing too much of their bright future?

[Bellhorn04]

No love for Curt Leskanic?

 

Good catch...I was going to mention old Curt there, my bad.

[Bellhorn04]

I really dislike that term 'bridge year' too. If you have a shot at a championship you have to go for it. We have a chance.

 

We have a 'bright future' and all that, but our biggest offensive star, Ortiz, is not going to be with us too much longer.

[Orange Juiced]

I really dislike that term 'bridge year' too. If you have a shot at a championship you have to go for it. We have a chance.

 

We have a 'bright future' and all that, but our biggest offensive star, Ortiz, is not going to be with us too much longer.

 

How much of that bright future would you be willing to give up to go for it this year? Bogaerts for Peavy?

[BSN07]

How much of that bright future would you be willing to give up to go for it this year? Bogaerts for Peavy?

 

God no, that is so terrible.

 

The best prospects I would make available in certain trades are guys along the lines of Ranaudo, Workman, Brentz, Cechinni, Marrero, and Lavs. I wouldn't move any of the top guys for what's available at the moment.

 

Ranaudo/Workman + 1 of the other 3 would be a decent haul if the Red Sox are picking some a decent amount of the check.

[Dojji]

I'd still rather go after Ervin Santana than either Garza or Peavy. He's a better pitcher than the other two right now and has fewer risks associated with the trade.

[Bellhorn04]

How much of that bright future would you be willing to give up to go for it this year? Bogaerts for Peavy?

 

No sir. I was thinking more like Middlebrooks for Peavy, which has been rumored. I wouldn't part with a prospect like Bogaerts.

[User Name]

I'd still rather go after Ervin Santana than either Garza or Peavy. He's a better pitcher than the other two right now and has fewer risks associated with the trade.

 

We get it. You like guys who play for the Royals, but Santana probably isn't realistic for the Sox.

[italstallianion]

How much of that bright future would you be willing to give up to go for it this year? Bogaerts for Peavy?

 

If we gave up Bogaerts for a pitcher...other than say Sale/Kershaw/Harvey etc...I'd violently storm Boston with burning pitchforks.

[italstallianion]

God no, that is so terrible.

 

The best prospects I would make available in certain trades are guys along the lines of Ranaudo, Workman, Brentz, Cechinni, Marrero, and Lavs. I wouldn't move any of the top guys for what's available at the moment.

 

Ranaudo/Workman + 1 of the other 3 would be a decent haul if the Red Sox are picking some a decent amount of the check.

 

 

I really like Ranaudo so I'd be hesitant to move him/Barnes/Owens but I guess he'd be the one of those 3 I might be most likely to move. I'd be hesitant to move any of them unless I felt we were getting a clear and necessary upgrade.

[Orange Juiced]

If we gave up Bogaerts for a pitcher...other than say Sale/Kershaw/Harvey etc...I'd violently storm Boston with burning pitchforks.

 

No sir. I was thinking more like Middlebrooks for Peavy, which has been rumored. I wouldn't part with a prospect like Bogaerts.

 

I agree with both of you guys. Which is why, even though they have a real shot this year (much to our surprise), you don't go full-guns GFIN mode, because to do that would cost you the gems of your farm system. And the Sox won't do that, I wouldn't think.

 

Peavy doesn't really interest me that much. Here are his numbers over his 3 1/2 years with the White Sox:

 

80 g (about 22 per season on average), 510.2 ip (139.1 on average), 4.09 era, 105 era+, 1.17 whip, 7.9 k/9

 

Just one of his 3+ seasons in the AL has he had an era below 4.19.

Just one of his 3+ seasons in the AL has he pitched more than 112 innings or appeared in more than 19 games.

 

This year he's been a decent pitcher (4.19 era, 104 era+, 1.16 whip, 8.5 k/9), but those are basically Ryan Dempster numbers for the most part. Unless Clay was definitely done for the year, I wouldn't give up much for Peavy.

 

Lester seems to be rounding into form (3 of his last 4 starts he's been really solid), Lackey continues to be really good, Doubront continues to excel, and Dempster has been just fine. It's that last spot that's been the concern, and if Clay returns, say, on Sep 1, that means we're talking like 7 outings from Peavy before someone would have to go to the bullpen. That would almost certainly be Doubront, which would be terrible, since he's been one of their best starters. I guess you worry about that later, but can the Sox get relatively equal performance from Workman, et al, to what they'd get from Peavy over those 7 starts? I would bet that they'd be close enough to not want to give up much of value for him.

[Palodios]

Peavy and Crain/Lindstrom seem like very tempting targets. I've been told I rate Peavy higher than most people around here, but so be it. He's a 32 year old AL SP with a 3.49 career ERA, a CY Young, a 4 time all star, and is controllable. If the Red Sox could get both those guys for Middlebrooks + Wilson, it would be a difference maker in a playoff push.

[Standing Room]

Peavy and Crain/Lindstrom seem like very tempting targets. I've been told I rate Peavy higher than most people around here, but so be it. He's a 32 year old AL SP with a 3.49 career ERA, a CY Young, a 4 time all star, and is controllable. If the Red Sox could get both those guys for Middlebrooks + Wilson, it would be a difference maker in a playoff push.

 

Crain is hurt again, and will no longer be traded.

 

Dojji, Hochevar is reportedly available if you want us to trade for a member of the Royals.

[User Name]

Peavy and Crain/Lindstrom seem like very tempting targets. I've been told I rate Peavy higher than most people around here, but so be it. He's a 32 year old AL SP with a 3.49 career ERA, a CY Young, a 4 time all star, and is controllable. If the Red Sox could get both those guys for Middlebrooks + Wilson, it would be a difference maker in a playoff push.

 

That's because you do. Most of those achievements came while he was on the NL (Padres to boot). He hasn't been nearly as durable or as effective in the AL save for one season.

 

On a side note, Crain's injured and won't be ready before the TDL, so that likely takes him out of the list of Red Sox options.

[Palodios]

I didn't misunderstand you, but thanks for the clarification. I find the use of the term "bridge year" incongruent if we win the Division or a World Championship. If that is the bridge, I don't want to get off the bridge.

 

What concerns me the most about the Red Sox is that they don't have a very solid #1. They have plenty of #2s and #3s, but in a wild card game against a Verlander/Weaver/Price/Colon/Darvish I think the Red Sox will be toast.

[User Name]

So if Buchholz comes back he's not a very solid #1? When healthy (and that when should be bolded and in 24 size lettering) Buchholz pitches like an ace. If he's healthy come crunch time, i like the Sox' chances against any of those guys with Buch on the mound. Not to mention Lackey has actually outpitched three of the pitchers you mention above.

[dduncan6er]

Peavy is coming off one of the best seasons of his career in which he threw about 220 innings. His injury earlier this year was a rib, and the injury will actually prevent him from hitting his player option for 2015 which is a good thing. The money left on his deal will scare some other teams away I believe. I think he's a great fit and I'd give up a package centered around WMB for him in a heart beat. If something like WMB/Workman/Marrero for Peavy is a possibility I'd pull the trigger.

[User Name]

Why does everyone wanna trade Workman?

[Palodios]

It was a slash Lindstrom in all fairness... I wasn't sure if there was anything the Red Sox could do to bypass the rules to trade for Crain as a PTBNL.

 

I would attribute Peavy's failures to health more than anything. He's definitely a when-healthy guy, and the times he has been healthy -- like 2012, and most of 2013 till he started to get hurt -- he's been very good in the AL. He's a gamble, but I would much rather chance it for a 2012 Peavy than an any-year Bud Norris.

[dduncan6er]

Why does everyone wanna trade Workman?

 

He's out performed his career #'s so far in the majors. His first couple starts may have increased his value quite a bit to some teams, while everything I've read on the guy over his career have said he projects as a bullpen guy. Granted the scouts have been wrong before but I think he's a great candidate to be moved while his value is a bit inflated.

[dduncan6er]

It was a slash Lindstrom in all fairness... I wasn't sure if there was anything the Red Sox could do to bypass the rules to trade for Crain as a PTBNL.

 

I would attribute Peavy's failures to health more than anything. He's definitely a when-healthy guy, and the times he has been healthy -- like 2012, and most of 2013 till he started to get hurt -- he's been very good in the AL. He's a gamble, but I would much rather chance it for a 2012 Peavy than an any-year Bud Norris.

 

I want absolutely no part of Norris if any of the top 10 prospects in the system are going to be moved in the deal.

[User Name]

I don't think a couple decent starts at the MLB level will inflate his value as much as you think. If we can come to this conclusion, why can't MLB scouts and GM's?

[Palodios]

So if Buchholz comes back he's not a very solid #1? When healthy (and that when should be bolded and in 24 size lettering) Buchholz pitches like an ace. If he's healthy come crunch time, i like the Sox' chances against any of those guys with Buch on the mound. Not to mention Lackey has actually outpitched three of the pitchers you mention above.

 

Do we have a reason to have any confidence whatsoever in Buchholz? Historically he has pitched very poorly the first few starts coming off the DL, and that's if he does come back in mid September.

[Palodios]

Why does everyone wanna trade Workman?

 

The scouting reports I've heard give me the impression that Workman has flat pitches, and a somewhat low ceiling. Cheap starting pitching is still very valuable, which is why he seems like a good chip.

[User Name]

Do we have a reason to have any confidence whatsoever in Buchholz? Historically he has pitched very poorly the first few starts coming off the DL, and that's if he does come back in mid September.

 

Then you'd have him right at the verge of going back to being awesome by October. If he can't come back by mid-September at the least then he's useless either way. By that same token, do we have any reason to have any confidence whatsoever in Peavy? He's essentially another Buchholz health-wise but not as good.

[dduncan6er]

I don't think a couple decent starts at the MLB level will inflate his value as much as you think. If we can come to this conclusion, why can't MLB scouts and GM's?

 

Scouts and GM's don't always have the same opinion of players in different organizations.