Trades before the deadline?

[User Name]

The whole point of the discussion boils down to the ridiculous idea that iortiz and a700 have in regards to Papelbon. He's not some mythical, irreplaceable beast. The Sox have simply not taken the right road in trying to replace him (IF Bailey keeps struggling). He wasn't worth the money when Philly signed him, and he's not worth the money and prospects now.

 

There are other external and internal options that could be effective for a lot less money.

 

I love how iortiz cops out of the money discussion by saying Papelbon has been worth every penny. He f***ing hasn't. He's a 1 IP relief pitcher.

[iortiz]

Right, because spending that much money on Papelbon instead of proceeding like they did this offseason was a better idea. The very idea makes no sense.

 

You missed bold this and compare. Look how much you have spent in closers since Pap walked and see the results --- failure and overpays. On the other hand see the results of Pap in Philly thus far --success; every penny spent on him has worth thus far.

 

To you, nothing makes sense unless you agree on. Nothing new.

[User Name]

It doesn't make sense because it's the idea of long-term commitment vs short term commitment, for one. For two, they have not spent as much money as the Phillies have spent on Papelbon in a club that isn't even contending.

 

It doesn't make sense because your whole set of ideas is based on faulty logic. 75% of the site agrees with the notion that you're wrong, but somehow you still think you're right with the Papelbon nonsense. Nothing new.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I hate the way they do those stats though. They count 'blown holds' the same as 'blown saves' but they don't add saves and holds together.

 

For example they show Tazawa as having 3 blown saves, but 2 of those were really blown holds where he came into the game in the 7th. It was a 'save opportunity', but only if he had pitched the 7th, 8th and 9th.

 

Look into it and you'll see what I mean.

 

I know what you mean. My point is more along the lines that the potential replacements aren't doing their jobs all that well either.

[iortiz]

The whole point of the discussion boils down to the ridiculous idea that iortiz and a700 have in regards to Papelbon. He's not some mythical, irreplaceable beast. The Sox have simply not taken the right road in trying to replace him (IF Bailey keeps struggling). He wasn't worth the money when Philly signed him, and he's not worth the money and prospects now.

 

There are other external and internal options that could be effective for a lot less money.

 

I love how iortiz cops out of the money discussion by saying Papelbon has been worth every penny. He f***ing hasn't. He's a 1 IP relief pitcher.

Knew it. You blame me again about the Pap thing and wasn't me who brought him to the discussion, was your boy MVP. Check it up.

 

And that is absolutely untrue. He has worth every penny thus far, look at the numbers. And most likely will worth for the rest of his contract.

[SoxFanForsyth]

So, Bailey is or isn't the answer?

 

I don't know. We'll have to see. I don't think he was ever a great fit because of his fly ball rates, but right now his FB% and his HR/FB are at unsustainable high levels, so we're certainly seeing the worst of it. It will correct itself, and that's when you make the judgement.

[iortiz]

It doesn't make sense because it's the idea of long-term commitment vs short term commitment, for one. For two, they have not spent as much money as the Phillies have spent on Papelbon in a club that isn't even contending.

 

It doesn't make sense because your whole set of ideas is based on faulty logic. 75% of the site agrees with the notion that you're wrong, but somehow you still think you're right with the Papelbon nonsense. Nothing new.

 

Oh boy, not sure how you made the math but its glad to see I have a 25% loyal fan base on my side

[mvp 78]

Right, because spending that much money on Papelbon instead of proceeding like they did this offseason was a better idea. The very idea makes no sense.

 

And he's ignoring the bigger "price" the Sox would pay: prospects. I'm not really concerned about the $$$.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Buster Olney said yesterday on Mut and Merloni that he would expect the Phillies to get a B+ prospect in return for Papelbon.

 

To me, this means someone like Brentz, Britton, or Lavarnway, and the Sox taking on the full salary.

 

My question is this - Would you feel comfortable giving away one of those 3 players for Papelbon, or is even that cost prohibitive?

[iortiz]

And he's ignoring the bigger "price" the Sox would pay: prospects. I'm not really concerned about the $$$.

 

It wasn't the discussion at all MVP, and you know it. Stop the ******** storm.

 

On the other hand if there were a possibility I I would explore which prospects we are talking about. Ain't gonna happen, though.

[iortiz]

Buster Olney said yesterday on Mut and Merloni that he would expect the Phillies to get a B+ prospect in return for Papelbon.

 

To me, this means someone like Brentz, Britton, or Lavarnway, and the Sox taking on the full salary.

 

My question is this - Would you feel comfortable giving away one of those 3 players for Papelbon, or is even that cost prohibitive?

 

If that were the price I would make the deal in a heartbeat.

[mvp 78]

They shall go for Pap if they can. His contract has worth every penny thus far and there is no indication of a decline, in fact the guy is still a stud.

 

Not that it's a surprise, but I wasn't the one to bring Paps to the discussion.

 

What's Spanish for "rides the short bus?" Autobus Israel?

[iortiz]

Not that it's a surprise, but I wasn't the one to bring Paps to the discussion.

 

What's Spanish for "rides the short bus?" Autobus Israel?

 

Really? C'mon man! That was buried. Done. We were talking about Bailey and you know it.

[mvp 78]

Really? C'mon man! That was buried. Done. We were talking about Bailey and you know it.

 

If that discussion is over, start a new thread? :dunno:

[iortiz]

If that discussion is over, start a new thread? :dunno:

 

Not sure what's your point man, but I think you know my position on this, don't you?

[User Name]

Career low velocity, K/9 and near career high HR rate with a 3.02 FIP. No sign of decline if you're in active denial only.

[iortiz]

Career low velocity, K/9 and near career high HR rate with a 3.02 FIP. No sign of decline if you're in active denial only.

Not sure why you try/want to convince me. Is that so important to u? Really?

[mvp 78]

Not sure what's your point man, but I think you know my position on this, don't you?

 

Yes, your position is to dig yourself a hole by not understanding another person's posts and wait for A700 to pull you out of it.

[MJantomaso]

There has to be some old washed up closer that we can feed steroids to. Its been working for the Yanks!

[iortiz]

Not sure if we should explore another SP as well. Seems like our depth has worked out just fine lately with Aceves and Doub. Hopefully they keep going that way. On the other hand I have little concern about Buch's health and Lester's inconsistency.

[a700hitter]

Not sure what's your point man, but I think you know my position on this, don't you?

He doesn't know what his point is. We conceded all of the points and he is arguing to argue. It is not even coherent.

[a700hitter]

Hey Israel, didn't we already conced that Bailey was the answer and that Papelbon sucks? We also conceded that the FO should not be looking at other closers. What's their disagreement? I'm not getting the point that they are trying to make. Bailey is the man and Papelbon is overpaid, washed up trash. Case closed.

[Standing Room]

He doesn't know what his point is. We conceded all of the points and he is arguing to argue. It is not even coherent.

 

Hey Israel, didn't we already conced that Bailey was the answer and that Papelbon sucks? We also concede that the FO should not be looking at other closers. What's their disagreement? I'm not getting the point that they are trying to make. Bailey is the man and Papelbon is overpaid, washed up trash. Case closed.

 

Nine times out of ten when someone reverts to this, it's because they don't have much of an argument. Rather than bringing nothing to the table, why not discuss the actual point at hand - whether Papelbon is worth prospects and his salary? If someone thinks that he is, please make a case.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Not sure if we should explore another SP as well. Seems like our depth has worked out just fine lately with Aceves and Doub. Hopefully they keep going that way. On the other hand I have little concern about Buch's health and Lester's inconsistency.

 

Doubront isn't depth, he's our #5 starter.

 

We'll see how our depth turns out this weekend with Webster going up against Detroit. That's going to be a big start for him, a true test against an elite offense.

 

I hope he actually throws his sinking fastball this time rather than his straight 4 seamer.

[a700hitter]

@ Dutchy, ^ Ignored, but certainly just arguing to argue.:harhar:

[a700hitter]

Doubront isn't depth, he's our #5 starter.

 

We'll see how our depth turns out this weekend with Webster going up against Detroit. That's going to be a big start for him, a true test against an elite offense.

 

I hope he actually throws his sinking fastball this time rather than his straight 4 seamer.

The matchups with Detroit present a big test for our rotation.

[iortiz]

Nine times out of ten when someone reverts to this, it's because they don't have much of an argument. Rather than bringing nothing to the table, why not discuss the actual point at hand - whether Papelbon is worth prospects and his salary? If someone thinks that he is, please make a case.

 

bringing nothing to the table? C'mon man we have discussed this over and over and over so many times, look at threads, this isn't new at all. We already rest the case sooooooo many times.

 

Sure, You can agree or disagree on this but saying that we haven't brought nothing to the table is not fair.

[iortiz]

Doubront isn't depth, he's our #5 starter.

 

We'll see how our depth turns out this weekend with Webster going up against Detroit. That's going to be a big start for him, a true test against an elite offense.

 

I hope he actually throws his sinking fastball this time rather than his straight 4 seamer.

 

My bad, I should say our backed of our rotation and depth with Aceves.

 

Hopefully Webster had learned something about his last start and give us a possibility to at least keep us in the game.

[a700hitter]

bringing nothing to the table? C'mon man we have discussed this over and over and over so many times, look at threads, this isn't new at all. We already rest the case sooooooo many times.

 

Sure, You can agree or disagree on this but saying that we haven't brought nothing to the table is not fair.

Exactly, we have been repeatedly asked and we have repeatedly anwered these same questions since Papelbon left. We have not convinced certain people, so there is no point in continuing to argue about it. I shouldn't speak for you, but I am conceding that Bailey is our answer for closer and that the FO should avoid all discussions regarding Papelbon. Apparently, even agreement with some folks is met with derision and insults. Dutchy is a messed up dude. You can't even agree with him.

[iortiz]

Exactly, we have been repeatedly asked and we have repeatedly anwered these same questions since Papelbon left. We have not convinced certain people, so there is no point in continuing to argue about it. I shouldn't speak for you, but I am conceding that Bailey is our answer for closer and that the FO should avoid all discussions regarding Papelbon. Apparently, even agreement with some folks is met with derision and insults. Dutchy is a messed up dude. You can't even agree with him.

 

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me in this topic or any other. Problem is that some posters want to convince others the way they view the game or any other topic saying that this has "no sense" or what is the other sentence? "You have reading comprehension problems", or even with personal attacks, when somebody thinks different. That has been the problem all along.