Shoring Up the Rotation

[BornToRun]

Yeah, giving up a top prospect is a deal breaker for me too.

 

Yup, me too. Always hated dealing top prospects.

[BSN07]

No way in hell a the Cubs get a Bradley type prospect for Garza and his 4 months of control. The guy has had an arm injury that has kept him out almost a full calender year. If some team gives up a top 5 prospect from their system, they are morons.

[Palodios]

No way in hell a the Cubs get a Bradley type prospect for Garza and his 4 months of control. The guy has had an arm injury that has kept him out almost a full calender year. If some team gives up a top 5 prospect from their system, they are morons.

 

We see it every year. All it takes is one desperate team. With the extra wild card spots, players will continue to sell for a premium at the deadline.

[a700hitter]

No way in hell a the Cubs get a Bradley type prospect for Garza and his 4 months of control. The guy has had an arm injury that has kept him out almost a full calender year. If some team gives up a top 5 prospect from their system, they are morons.

Agreed. At most Theo gets is a second tier prospect and a guy from the instructional league. Theo missed the boat on Garza. When he took over the team, he could have gotten a nice haul of prospects. Garza has done nothing except diminish in value since then.

[seabeachfred]

I hear that Franklin Morales guy is pretty good. What do you think it would take for him to pitch every 5 days for the Sox?

 

Honestly, there will be plenty of guys available, but I doubt any of them are going to be worth the cost. Gallardo, Price, Lee will be insanely expensive. The next tier is Ervin Santana, Ian Kennedy, Danks.

 

The one guy I'd want to keep an eye on is Marcum. Health issues have been a problem for him, and the Mets are going to be sellers. He might not cost much.

 

Morales? A lot of people seem to like him but I right now am not one of them. Reason? Simple!!!! The Yankees beat the living s*** out of him both times he started against them last season, and I believe the one time he relieved against the New Yorkers they pasted him as well. If he can't beat the Yankees I haven't a whole lot of use for him.

 

More to the point....I think we may need to upgrade our lineup more than get another pitcher. When we have to play Ross and Gomes against lefties we are naked to the world. Both stink with the bat and both strike out way too much for what little they give us. I still wonder when "Damaged Goods" Victorino will get back in the lineup, as well as t hat candy ass tin man who seems to be made of paper mache.

[BSN07]

Morales? A lot of people seem to like him but I right now am not one of them. Reason? Simple!!!! The Yankees beat the living s*** out of him both times he started against them last season, and I believe the one time he relieved against the New Yorkers they pasted him as well. If he can't beat the Yankees I haven't a whole lot of use for him.

 

Fred you can't sell on someone because of two starts against any team. You need to look at the whole body of work and if you do that Morales reveals himself to be a decent option to start if needed.

 

By this logic Ciriaco is the best SS in baseball.

[Standing Room]

Just curious, who do you guys envision these starters replacing in the rotation? Jon Lester's 3.70 xFIP is the highest of anyone in our rotation. Are we going to give up on a 25 year old Felix Doubront as a starter because he had two bad starts?

[User Name]

Morales? A lot of people seem to like him but I right now am not one of them. Reason? Simple!!!! The Yankees beat the living s*** out of him both times he started against them last season, and I believe the one time he relieved against the New Yorkers they pasted him as well. If he can't beat the Yankees I haven't a whole lot of use for him.

 

More to the point....I think we may need to upgrade our lineup more than get another pitcher. When we have to play Ross and Gomes against lefties we are naked to the world. Both stink with the bat and both strike out way too much for what little they give us. I still wonder when "Damaged Goods" Victorino will get back in the lineup, as well as t hat candy ass tin man who seems to be made of paper mache.

 

I see your ability to create derogatory terms for people is as sharp as ever.

[SoxSport]

They won't trade Bradley. He's on the verge of surpassing Ellsbury on the charts. Looks like more of a 5 tool player. Ells is playing well right now, but they have a surplus of outfielders, and he could be trade bait for a pitcher. Contending is all about how their starting pitching goes. The more, the better.

[VA Sox Fan]

I see your ability to create derogatory terms for people is as sharp as ever.

 

[SoxSport]

Agreed. At most Theo gets is a second tier prospect and a guy from the instructional league. Theo missed the boat on Garza. When he took over the team, he could have gotten a nice haul of prospects. Garza has done nothing except diminish in value since then.

 

The Cubs got their 3rd baseman in the draft. The Sox got a top 10 HS lefty pitcher--tall thin kid who can also hit LHd and play the OF. Reminds me remotely of a young Ted Williams in his HS days.

[a700hitter]

Morales? A lot of people seem to like him but I right now am not one of them. Reason? Simple!!!! The Yankees beat the living s*** out of him both times he started against them last season, and I believe the one time he relieved against the New Yorkers they pasted him as well. If he can't beat the Yankees I haven't a whole lot of use for him.

 

More to the point....I think we may need to upgrade our lineup more than get another pitcher. When we have to play Ross and Gomes against lefties we are naked to the world. Both stink with the bat and both strike out way too much for what little they give us. I still wonder when "Damaged Goods" Victorino will get back in the lineup, as well as t hat candy ass tin man who seems to be made of paper mache.

Fred, Ells's strained vajayjay is no laughing matter. It was very serious. He had to keep his feet elevated for several days.

[SoxSport]

Morales? A lot of people seem to like him but I right now am not one of them. Reason? Simple!!!! The Yankees beat the living s*** out of him both times he started against them last season, and I believe the one time he relieved against the New Yorkers they pasted him as well. If he can't beat the Yankees I haven't a whole lot of use for him.

 

More to the point....I think we may need to upgrade our lineup more than get another pitcher. When we have to play Ross and Gomes against lefties we are naked to the world. Both stink with the bat and both strike out way too much for what little they give us. I still wonder when "Damaged Goods" Victorino will get back in the lineup, as well as t hat candy ass tin man who seems to be made of paper mache.

 

They suck against lefties, no matter who they play. The problem is they have no legitimate RHd power hitter. Haven't since Manny (OK, Bay for a year).

 

I was looking for them to draft a RHd power OFer, but they took that lanky LHd pitcher/outfielder who looks like Ted Williams did when he was 17.

 

Morales needs to get his act together in Yankee stadium. He needs to understand that any LHd pitcher is better there.

[Bellhorn04]

Fred scores a rare triple metaphor on Ellsbury with 'candy', 'tin' and 'paper mache'.

[SoxSport]

Fred, Ells's strained vajayjay is no laughing matter. It was very serious. He had to keep his feet elevated for several days.

 

That's what he gets for stealing 5 bases in one game. He doesn't steal a base for 15 games, and then he goes and steals 5 in one. Spread 'em out, Ells.

[a700hitter]

Fred scores a rare triple metaphor on Ellsbury with 'candy', 'tin' and 'paper mache'.

And he made it look so easy.

[seabeachfred]

I see your ability to create derogatory terms for people is as sharp as ever.

 

Just put this in your diddy bag User......my derogatory terms apply only to players, not to any posters on the board. You seem to keep forgetting that. No nasty remarks are directed against fellow posters unless I'm attacked first for attacking some players. Keep that in mind----and I will continue to operate that way. I have little use for Gomes and Ross and that is my opinion and will express that. Disagree if you wish but do NOT attack me for that. Then it becomes personal and war ensues. Let it lay and there will be no flamage from me.

[seabeachfred]

Fred you can't sell on someone because of two starts against any team. You need to look at the whole body of work and if you do that Morales reveals himself to be a decent option to start if needed.

 

By this logic Ciriaco is the best SS in baseball.

 

Well BSN, you can't and I guess most people on this board might agree with you that you can't sell on someone because of two starts against the Yankees. However, I can and I do. To me if a Red Sox pitcher can't beat the Yankees I have very little use for him. THAT IS MY OPINION and I will express exactly that. If and when Morales stops being a pinata when he faces the New Yorkers and starts beating them, then I will come on board. Not until then.

 

Once again, we will just have to agree to disagree on a point.

[seabeachfred]

Fred, Ells's strained vajayjay is no laughing matter. It was very serious. He had to keep his feet elevated for several days.

 

Once again, you hit a real sarcastic home run Ted. I'm still laughing at it. Well, he finally got back in tonight and got four hits.....and so did Gomes....double glory hallejujah. If the tin man can go on a tear I will stay off him and root him on like the rest of the crew.;);)

[seabeachfred]

They suck against lefties, no matter who they play. The problem is they have no legitimate RHd power hitter. Haven't since Manny (OK, Bay for a year).

 

I was looking for them to draft a RHd power OFer, but they took that lanky LHd pitcher/outfielder who looks like Ted Williams did when he was 17.

 

Morales needs to get his act together in Yankee stadium. He needs to understand that any LHd pitcher is better there.

 

Glad to see someone back me up on the Morales vs Yankees issue. Lefties usually do very well there and Morales has to get his s*** together when he faces the Yankees no matter where he pitches against them. As for Trey Ball the Red Sox had better guess right about whether this guy is a pitcher or a hard hitting outfielder---and we need to start drafting some RH hitting power hitters and shitcan all these lefties we've signed the past decade. We now have more than enough of those. Good to hear from you Sox Sport.

[User Name]

Just put this in your diddy bag User......my derogatory terms apply only to players, not to any posters on the board. You seem to keep forgetting that. No nasty remarks are directed against fellow posters unless I'm attacked first for attacking some players. Keep that in mind----and I will continue to operate that way. I have little use for Gomes and Ross and that is my opinion and will express that. Disagree if you wish but do NOT attack me for that. Then it becomes personal and war ensues. Let it lay and there will be no flamage from me.

 

Well apparently you pissed Gomes off enough to have a monster night, so maybe your "wit" does have some use.

[User Name]

Glad to see someone back me up on the Morales vs Yankees issue. Lefties usually do very well there and Morales has to get his s*** together when he faces the Yankees no matter where he pitches against them. As for Trey Ball the Red Sox had better guess right about whether this guy is a pitcher or a hard hitting outfielder---and we need to start drafting some RH hitting power hitters and shitcan all these lefties we've signed the past decade. We now have more than enough of those. Good to hear from you Sox Sport.

 

Fred, do you follow the Red Sox minor league system? I'm going to assume you don't.

[a700hitter]

Morales is just not that good. He's not terrible. For small stretches, he can be very good and his stuff looks impressive. However, he has never been able to cut it as a starter. I'm not quite sure exactly what the issue is that has held him back from success in that role, but the fact is that Colorado gave up on him and discarded him like a spare part. Teams don't often do that with lefties who throw in the mid-90's if they have starter potential. They ruled him out for that role, and he is yet to stake his claim as a regular starter for us. He is at most a spot starter-- a short term depth option.

[Standing Room]

I'll ask again, which member of our rotation needs "shoring up"? Jon Lester has the worst peripherals on the staff, are we sending him to the bullpen?

[rjortiz]

Probably Doubront. I think the desire to add another starter has to do with wanting a pitcher who can shut down the opposition in October. I don't think we need a Peavy or Garza. I think we try to land Cliff Lee, or don't make a move at all.

[a700hitter]

Probably Doubront. I think the desire to add another starter has to do with wanting a pitcher who can shut down the opposition in October. I don't think we need a Peavy or Garza. I think we try to land Cliff Lee, or don't make a move at all.

If lee goes anywhere, I think he will go to Texas. The Rangers have show a proclivity for some in season splashy moves, and I don't see Lee waiving his limited no-trade clause to come to Boston without a sizable extension.

[Orange Juiced]

If lee goes anywhere, I think he will go to Texas. The Rangers have show a proclivity for some in season splashy moves, and I don't see Lee waiving his limited no-trade clause to come to Boston without a sizable extension.

 

I'm wondering if Philly would have to kick in some cash to make a deal work. Lee's making a HUGE amount of money. I know he's terrific but if they expect some team to take on a monster contract *and* give them a really good package of players/prospects, that may be too high of an expectation.

 

Maybe they can get back a good package but have to give up some $$ to make it work, or they don't chip in any $$ but don't get back as good a package in return, but I doubt they'll get the $$ relief AND a really good package.

[a700hitter]

I'm wondering if Philly would have to kick in some cash to make a deal work. Lee's making a HUGE amount of money. I know he's terrific but if they expect some team to take on a monster contract *and* give them a really good package of players/prospects, that may be too high of an expectation.

 

Maybe they can get back a good package but have to give up some $$ to make it work, or they don't chip in any $$ but don't get back as good a package in return, but I doubt they'll get the $$ relief AND a really good package.

The more good prospects they want the more money they will have to kick in. I think they could get a decent (not a top prospect) and get full salary relief.

[Orange Juiced]

The more good prospects they want the more money they will have to kick in. I think they could get a decent (not a top prospect) and get full salary relief.

 

So for Boston to get him, assuming they pay all of Lee's salary, what level prospect do you think would get the trade done?

[rjortiz]

I'm wondering if Philly would have to kick in some cash to make a deal work. Lee's making a HUGE amount of money. I know he's terrific but if they expect some team to take on a monster contract *and* give them a really good package of players/prospects, that may be too high of an expectation.

 

Maybe they can get back a good package but have to give up some $$ to make it work, or they don't chip in any $$ but don't get back as good a package in return, but I doubt they'll get the $$ relief AND a really good package.

 

Missing the playoffs the last three years has hurt ticket sales. A deep playoff run in October can help correct that problem, and having Cliff Lee in your rotation definitely improves your chances of winning a World Series.

 

He's lost some velocity on his fastball this year, and is still dominating. I'd take the gamble and offer the Phillies salary relief. He won't cripple the team financially, because a lot of their cheaper players are getting ready to assume larger roles. Iglesias, Middlebrooks, Nava, and Bradley will probably have starting jobs, and make the minimum. Lavarnway potentially could be our starting catcher. The rest of the team is pretty much locked up in 2014. The lone exception would be 1B, and maybe a few bullpen holes. If our cap is $189 million for 2014, I think we can afford to take Lee.