2013 Yankees in-game thread

[Northern Star]

He might have been a HoF caliber pitcher if he wasn't pitching during the heart of the steroids era.

 

Gonna retire his number too, Sport?

[Divinity]

Gonna retire his number too, Sport?

 

No, he was a great pitcher, but he was never an Ace.

[Divinity]

His 3.86 career ERA would be the highest ERA among hall of fame pitchers.

 

Yes, that's why I said If he didn't pitch in the heart of the steroid era he "might" be

 

Take a look at the other facts besides ERA

 

"There aren't many pitchers with Pettitte's 250-odd wins and .625-ish winning percentage. Here are the pitchers with between 225 and 275 wins, and a winning percentage between .600 and .650:

 

.604 David Wells

.621 Bob Feller

.622 Carl Hubbell

.627 Andy Pettitte

.631 Juan Marichal

.638 Jim Palmer

.638 Mike Mussina

.648 Mordecai Brown

 

David Wells isn't getting into the Hall of Fame, but Mike Mussina might be. The other non-Pettitte guys are in."

 

Plus they're's always the fact he's won more postseason games than anyone

[Palodios]

Yes, that's why I said If he didn't pitch in the heart of the steroid era he "might" be

 

Take a look at the other facts besides ERA

 

"There aren't many pitchers with Pettitte's 250-odd wins and .625-ish winning percentage. Here are the pitchers with between 225 and 275 wins, and a winning percentage between .600 and .650:

 

.604 David Wells

.621 Bob Feller

.622 Carl Hubbell

.627 Andy Pettitte

.631 Juan Marichal

.638 Jim Palmer

.638 Mike Mussina

.648 Mordecai Brown

 

David Wells isn't getting into the Hall of Fame, but Mike Mussina might be. The other non-Pettitte guys are in."

 

Plus they're's always the fact he's won more postseason games than anyone

 

Winning percentage is heavily skewed because of some of those completely stacked Yankee teams. Wins are heavily considered, even still, for the HOF, but the problem is that that's what steroids helped. Even if you make the argument that he didn't use steroids to boost his performance, you can't laud him for his durability and high number of wins if he cheated to stay healthy.

 

The other factor is... Pettite played 19 seasons in the big leagues, and only went to 3 All-star games. No cy young awards, no MVP trophies. The problem isn't just that he looks completely outmatched by his HOF peers, he was completely outmatched by his peers. Honestly, I can't remember a time when he was better than a #3 on his own team.

[Divinity]

Winning percentage is heavily skewed because of some of those completely stacked Yankee teams. Wins are heavily considered, even still, for the HOF, but the problem is that that's what steroids helped. Even if you make the argument that he didn't use steroids to boost his performance, you can't laud him for his durability and high number of wins if he cheated to stay healthy.

 

The other factor is... Pettite played 19 seasons in the big leagues, and only went to 3 All-star games. No cy young awards, no MVP trophies. The problem isn't just that he looks completely outmatched by his HOF peers, he was completely outmatched by his peers. Honestly, I can't remember a time when he was better than a #3 on his own team.

 

I kinda view it as any extra time he spent on the field is offset by the 4 retire's he took off, more than half of which wouldn't have been recovery time. You're selling him short by calling him a No. 3, he was clearly a top notch No. 2. Also it wasn't only just his winning percentage either.

 

Quoting this part from an ESPN article

 

His career ERA of 3.86 would be the highest of any Hall of Fame pitcher, but when the current leader in the clubhouse, Red Ruffing (3.80), retired in 1947, the league average ERA was 3.71. This year, the AL average ERA is 4.01. Still, this would be a sticking point for a lot of voters.

 

And Pettitte's career WAR, if you're into that sort of thing, is 60.3, slightly below that of the average among Hall of Fame pitchers, but still equal to or better than that of Bunning, Ford, Koufax, Hunter and about 25 others who have a plaque on the wall.

 

Pettitte's winning percentage of .627 is well above the average among Hall of Famers, and he has never had a losing season, although with the way the Yankees have been playing lately, that could end over the course of the final nine games this season.

 

When you factor in Pettitte's astonishing postseason record, it becomes very difficult to argue against him as a Hall of Famer. His 19-11, 3.81 ERA, 276 2/3 innings pitched in the playoffs would be a great season by any standard, let alone against the best teams in baseball at the most important time of the year.

 

If only for that one damned slip-up!

 

That makes it not only hard, but impossible for me to argue in favor if him. Already, I have staked out my position on this matter. If a player uses performance-enhancing drugs, for whatever reason, my reading of Rule 5 of the Hall's induction criteria tells me that the player fails to meet three of the standards: the ones dealing with integrity, sportsmanship and character.

[Palodios]

You're selling him short by calling him a No. 3, he was clearly a top notch No. 2.

 

Between Roger, Moose, Johnson, Sabathia, Kuroda, Cone and others he has been very frequently in that #3 spot. Call him a #2 if you really want... but does any guy who isn't a #1 really belong in the hall?

[a700hitter]

No one from the steroid era is going in for a long time.

[Divinity]

No one from the steroid era is going in for a long time.

 

I'll bet you a hefty sum Mo' and Jeter do.

[a700hitter]

I'll bet you a hefty sum Mo' and Jeter do.

They shouldn't. There is no way of knowing that they were clean. Other guys are being kept out on suspicion without evidence. No one from that era is above suspicion. If they get in right away, it will be beause the writer love to suck pinstripe dick.

[Navafan29]

Congrats on Arod for breaking the MLB all time record for career grand slams during the appeal process.

[a700hitter]

It's a shame that one of the longest-standing records in the game (Gehrig's Grand Slam record) had to fall to a notorious cheater. Thank you Bud Selig for your contribution to destroying the integrity of a great games records.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I got into a big argument with a friend yesterday. He says A-Rod's suspension was too harsh. I told him I thought it was fair. How does everyone else feel?

[VA Sox Fan]

I got into a big argument with a friend yesterday. He says A-Rod's suspension was too harsh. I told him I thought it was fair. How does everyone else feel?

 

Extremely fair. Wish he couldn't appeal it and be playing. f*** him.

[a700hitter]

I got into a big argument with a friend yesterday. He says A-Rod's suspension was too harsh. I told him I thought it was fair. How does everyone else feel?

He got caught once and made a mea culpa, which was obviously worthless. He is climbing up the record books and ruining the integrity of the games records and statistics. He has made hundreds of millions of dollars cheating the game and the fans. ARod is no victim. On the other hand Selig and the Yankees are hypocrites looking to make an example of him when he can no longer perform at an elite level. The Yankees just want to save money. When he was hitting 50 bombs a year, they looked the other way.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

He got caught once and made a mea culpa, which was obviously worthless. He is climbing up the record books and ruining the integrity of the games records and statistics. He has made hundreds of millions of dollars cheating the game and the fans. ARod is no victim. On the other hand Selig and the Yankees are hypocrites looking to make an example of him when he can no longer perform at an elite level. The Yankees just want to save money. When he was hitting 50 bombs a year, they looked the other way.

 

His argument was "according to the rule book", first offense 50 games. The 2nd is 100. He says he hasn't been caught more than twice. Selig trying to stick it to A-Rod after his comments were childish. Also he's aware of A-Rod trying to get rid of the evidence isn't too bad. Says that's a 20-30 game ban. This conversation lasted about 2 hours, not even exaggerating. I love the Red Sox and I'm not biased. I truly feel like a season and a half would do justice. We have a bet going on. If it goes under 150 games, I owe him money. Anything higher and I win.

[mvp 78]

I got into a big argument with a friend yesterday. He says A-Rod's suspension was too harsh. I told him I thought it was fair. How does everyone else feel?

 

I can't say as I don't know all the evidence. Not sure telling others to use hgh should draw a stiffer penalty. Selig just has a grudge against ARod and wants to look like a good guy after spending almost 2 decades pretending the problem didn't exist. I hate Selig more than I hate any Yankee.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I agree Selig is a terrible commissioner.

[Brennan]

I can't say as I don't know all the evidence. Not sure telling others to use hgh should draw a stiffer penalty. Selig just has a grudge against ARod and wants to look like a good guy after spending almost 2 decades pretending the problem didn't exist. I hate Selig more than I hate any Yankee.

 

 

 

Fantastic point

[Brennan]

a roid's tainted GS last night keeping those pricks alive should be good for some bad karma for him though.

[jacksonianmarch]

He flagrantly used. He recruited others to the clinic. He actively tampered with the investigation and even tried to pay off Bosch and destroy information. He deserves his fate

[mvp 78]

ARod's suspension should just mirror Braun's. I think Braun is a worse human being. f*** that guy.

[User Name]

But Braun didn't meddle in the investigation, tried to bribe the main witness, or refuse to cooperate with the investigators.

[mvp 78]

But Braun didn't meddle in the investigation, tried to bribe the main witness, or refuse to cooperate with the investigators.

 

Braun, knowing that he had failed, blamed an MLB employee, said he was an antisemite and got him fired.

[User Name]

Braun, knowing that he had failed, blamed an MLB employee, said he was an antisemite and got him fired.

 

Terrible human being, yes, but he did not directly meddle with the investigation. The problem is that Braun's a coward and immediately took a deal, but A-Rod tried to fight it to the point where Selig wanted to choke him with his own two hands. That probably didn't help him.

[mvp 78]

Terrible human being, yes, but he did not directly meddle with the investigation. The problem is that Braun's a coward and immediately took a deal, but A-Rod tried to fight it to the point where Selig wanted to choke him with his own two hands. That probably didn't help him.

 

Braun didn't take a deal when he failed that test.

[Bellhorn04]

It'll be interesting to see if MLB pushes to keep the suspension at 211 games or if they agree to settle for just the 2014 season or even 150 games of it.

[Bellhorn04]

Braun didn't take a deal when he failed that test.

 

I'm hoping to see the full litany of A-Rod's transgressions before I decide whose sins were greater. MLB, the people with the evidence, obviously feel that A-Rod's were.

[User Name]

I'm hoping to see the full litany of A-Rod's transgressions before I decide whose sins were greater. MLB, the people with the evidence, obviously feel that A-Rod's were.

 

I remember reading somewhere that they literally had a "compendium" of evidence against A-Rod. MVP's missing the forest because of the trees here.

[Bellhorn04]

Certainly what Braun did, smearing an innocent individual to save his own ass, was pretty heinous.

[User Name]

Of course it was, and i think he deserved a more severe punishment. That does not discount the severity of what A-Rod did. Not only did he use, he encouraged OTHERS to use, tried to bribe the main witness of the case, refused to cooperate (and tried to actively hinder) the investigation.