2013 Spring Training

[BSN07]

Pre 2004: if they win once, I'll die happy

 

Now: they must win every year!

 

That sums it up so beautifully

[a700hitter]

Pre 2004: if they win once, I'll die happy

 

Now: they must win every year!

 

I said since the end of last season, that I would like to see some competitive, respectable baseball in 2013, and maybe a few meaningful games in September. Who are these people that expect to win in 2013 on this site? Names please.

[Spitball]

Pre 2004: if they win once, I'll die happy

 

Now: they must win every year!

 

Hahaha! This is so true!

[seabeachfred]

No it isn't. Ortiz wanted a two-year deal so they gave it to him so they could secure his services. Not only does this avoid him whining about the contract, it also avoids the possibility of him getting pissed and bolting. Someone else would surely have given him a two-year deal. Had that happened, the same people who are claiming giving him a one-year deal was "common sense" would be bitching about how the FO should have given him the two-year deal and be done with it, and complain about how cheap they are.

 

That's the main problem of arguing with some of the posters on this site: Lack of a consistent thought process. People flip and flop their opinion to fit their need to whine.

 

Someone else would surely have given him a two-year deal? Really? Who would that be Mastermind? Talk about talking through your levis, that has to be rank with some of the dumbest things I've heard this spring. And what makes you such a know-it-all that it would have happened? It didn't because no team made such a move and they didn't because they knew Ortiz was hurt and might not recover and they sure as hell weren't going to give him the money the Red Sox did under those circumstances and then surrendeer a No. 1 draft choice in the bargain.

 

Now that the Red Sox have shut Ortiz down for a week, odds are he will not be ready for he season and it wouldn't surprise me if he winds up on the disabled list. As for people flip flopping, you base it what you think we would have said if it had turned out differently but from what I've read 700, SoxSport, Jung, me and others were never in favor of giving Ortiz a two year contract. You were because you support whatever the front office does. You cannot help yourself, it's in your DNA. If the front office does it, all is fine. Well all is not fine. There is a good chance we might get bumpkiss from Ortiz this season.

[seabeachfred]

Fair warning User, 700 is looking for anyone to go back and forth with these days. He even skipped his " you need x amount of posts before I respond to you" gig so he could get lead around by a Troll for a couple days. Better to just skip him, at least that may help avoid a meltdown on your 1st weekend back.

 

And fair warning to you BSN....User never finds fault with anything the front office does. He goes down the line with them on every conceivable move they make and even when he occasionally say something they do wrong he quickly modifies that so as to make them less culpable for any miserable move they may have made.

 

We have had five years of failure and near failure and last year we had the worst season any Red Sox team has had since 1965. For some posters to gloss over that and play make believe that all our problems are now in our rear view mirror is to me absolutely foolhardy at best and totally ignorant at worst.

 

Now with Ortiz on the shelf for a week, don't be surprised if he winds up on the DL. He is not healing and in fact, it looks like his health has regressed. This is nothing to pass off as immaterial.

[a700hitter]

Someone else would surely have given him a two-year deal? Really? Who would that be Mastermind? Talk about talking through your levis, that has to be rank with some of the dumbest things I've heard this spring. And what makes you such a know-it-all that it would have happened? It didn't because no team made such a move and they didn't because they knew Ortiz was hurt and might not recover and they sure as hell weren't going to give him the money the Red Sox did under those circumstances and then surrendeer a No. 1 draft choice in the bargain.

 

Now that the Red Sox have shut Ortiz down for a week, odds are he will not be ready for he season and it wouldn't surprise me if he winds up on the disabled list. As for people flip flopping, you base it what you think we would have said if it had turned out differently but from what I've read 700, SoxSport, Jung, me and others were never in favor of giving Ortiz a two year contract. You were because you support whatever the front office does. You cannot help yourself, it's in your DNA. If the front office does it, all is fine. Well all is not fine. There is a good chance we might get bumpkiss from Ortiz this season.

He woud have favored letting Ortiz walk if the FO had let him walk. He has no stomach to take a view opposite of the FO. What is the basis for anyone believing that some team would have offered a two year contract to a 37 year old injured Ortiz when he didn't get any such offers when he was healthy and age 35 and 36? It absurd to think that he might have been snatched away from us.

[seabeachfred]

That was not the general consensus. The general consensus was that Ortiz had the misfortune that befalls other players on occasion. He got injured at the worst possible time. The general consensus was that the Sox were the only team that would even consider it because they would at least get the bump from having retained a player from the "glory years", the championship years. That was considered the Ortiz' ace in the hole. While he had the misfortune to get injured he had the good fortune to be able to attach himself to the glory years of almost the only team in baseball that cares about such nonsense....your and my Boston Red Sox. I completely agreed with that opinion at the time and considered the Sox signing him a lead pipe cinch and two years almost a certainty.

 

Me, I would not have done it regardless of the ramifications. But that is me.

 

You take half the teams in baseball off the radar screen right from the start since the DH only exists in the AL.

 

Jung, I don't know what BSN was reading but it wasn't what we were reading. No team was ready to step in and give him a two year contract for he money the Red Sox were offering. The fact is that the money wasn't there, teams were leery about Ortiz injury and no team wanted to surrender a No. 1 draft choice for the privilege of signing a player who might not be able to play come Spring. No matter how you slice it, the only thing we can take out of this debacle is that the Red Sox were determined to see Papi retire as a Red Sox, and, as you said, only our team so glories in its past that they sign a guy because he once was one of our star performers who helped win a couple of titles.

 

Bernie Williams, Jorge Posada, Scott Brosias and Tino Martinez, among others, actually helped the Yankees win more title for their team than Ortiz won for us, but when their time was up they were sent packing. We keep them around. Witness how long we held onto Varitek and Wakefield when the sun had descended on their talents two and three years earlier.

[seabeachfred]

Come on man, read the article before passing judgement on a career ending injury. This had nothing to do with his Achilles.

 

Why is it we have so many so-called Red Sox fans here, whose first reaction is to expect the worst, and enjoy it?

 

Enjoy it Palodios? My ass we enjoy it. It kills us, ruins our day and evening. Our problem is that some of us care too much and we rail at the stupidity of the front office that has made questionable signings and miserable mistakes by the carload the past few years. There is supposed to be a new culture on the team this season---so the FO says, but we still have punks like Aceves around and we now have a crippled ballplayer who is not only not going to be ready for the start of the season but who may miss considerable time after the season begins.

[Palodios]

Enjoy it Palodios? My ass we enjoy it. It kills us, ruins our day and evening. Our problem is that some of us care too much and we rail at the stupidity of the front office that has made questionable signings and miserable mistakes by the carload the past few years. There is supposed to be a new culture on the team this season---so the FO says, but we still have punks like Aceves around and we now have a crippled ballplayer who is not only not going to be ready for the start of the season but who may miss considerable time after the season begins.

 

He's crippled now? The guy has some minor inflammation in his heels, and suddenly his career is over. 5-7 days has somehow turned to 5-7 weeks.

 

And honestly, I do think some of the posters here enjoy predicting the team's doom. Most of them get some kind of satisfaction in being right, even though its at the expense of the team.

[mvp 78]

I said since the end of last season, that I would like to see some competitive, respectable baseball in 2013, and maybe a few meaningful games in September. Who are these people that expect to win in 2013 on this site? Names please.

 

And just after you posted this, Fred posts his 5 years of failure nonsense. So, there you go.

 

Also, if all you want is meaningful games in September, you should have been fine with 09, 10 and 11, but you weren't.

[SoxFanForsyth]

He's crippled now? The guy has some minor inflammation in his heels, and suddenly his career is over. 5-7 days has somehow turned to 5-7 weeks.

 

And honestly, I do think some of the posters here enjoy predicting the team's doom. Most of them get some kind of satisfaction in being right, even though its at the expense of the team.

 

Exactly.

 

"If I'm right about the team sucking, I can gloat about that. If I'm wrong about the team sucking, I can gloat about the team being a good team".

[mvp 78]

Exactly.

 

"If I'm right about the team sucking, I can gloat about that. If I'm wrong about the team sucking, I can gloat about the team being a good team".

 

Yeah, it totally "kills them" and "ruins their day" so much that they are quick to use the I Told You So card.

 

If people want to be negative fans, it's fine by me. Just don't call others out for being ballwashers, because they don't agree with the negativity 100% of the time.

 

You liked the Victorino signing? Ballwasher.

 

You think the prospects that I don't like are good? Ballwasher.

 

You think the team could win 88 games and be in contention? Ballwasher.

 

You don't like my made up commentary? Ballwasher.

[jung]

That is such total ********.

 

Some of the posters here were absolutely dead nuts on in their low expectations for the 2012 Sox, were roasted alive for it when they offered those expectations, having their fandom questioned of all things just like this year. When they turned out to be exactly dead nuts on they never once offered an I told ya' so. Then again most of their detractors were not around to recognize that because they scurried off to the hills or some other forum I guess for fear of the apparently awesome power of the "Internet I told ya' so".

 

And ya' need to get your stories straight.

 

We can't be overly critical with low expectations and be overly critical with unrealistically high expectations at the same time! Unbelievable.

 

If I had to guess, for some of you, you are just lashing out because the same people that had low expectations for the 2012 team and had it called exactly right, are now expressing a similar view of the 2013 team and you just cannot handle the possibility that they will have called it exactly right once again.

 

At least be consistent for crying out loud and don't scurry off this year like a bunch of scared little children if you turn out to be on the wrong side of the discussion.

 

For the record this is a discussion forum carrying "Talksox" at its banner head, not "WorshipSox". If you cannot separate your opinions in discussion from your fandom, grow up and come back when you can.

 

For the record, the most embarrassingly subpar performances by this organization that i have witnessed in my entire 50 years as a fan have taken place the last two years....not fifty years ago. You don't have to have much of a memory to go back and find this organization's worst moments.....like hiring Bobby V to manage $179M in player salary assets....now they was a stroke of brilliance for ya'.

[jung]

That is such total ********.

 

Some of the posters here were absolutely dead nuts on in their low expectations for the 2012 Sox, were roasted alive for it when they offered those expectations, having their fandom questioned of all things just like this year. When they turned out to be exactly dead nuts on they never once offered an I told ya' so. Then again most of their detractors were not around to recognize that because they scurried off to the hills or some other forum I guess for fear of the apparently awesome power of the "Internet I told ya' so".

 

And ya' need to get your stories straight.

 

We can't be overly critical with low expectations and be overly critical with unrealistically high expectations at the same time! Unbelievable.

 

If I had to guess, for some of you, you are just lashing out because the same people that had low expectations for the 2012 team and had it called exactly right, are now expressing a similar view of the 2013 team and you just cannot handle the possibility that they will have called it exactly right once again.

 

At least be consistent for crying out loud and don't scurry off this year like a bunch of scared little children if you turn out to be on the wrong side of the discussion.

 

For the record this is a discussion forum carrying "Talksox" at its banner head, not "WorshipSox". If you cannot separate your opinions in discussion from your fandom, grow up and come back when you can.

 

For the record, the most embarrassingly subpar performances by this organization that i have witnessed in my entire 50 years as a fan have taken place the last two years....not fifty years ago. You don't have to have much of a memory to go back and find this organization's worst moments.....like hiring Bobby V to manage $179M in player salary assets....now they was a stroke of brilliance for ya'.

[Bellhorn04]

He woud have favored letting Ortiz walk if the FO had let him walk. He has no stomach to take a view opposite of the FO. What is the basis for anyone believing that some team would have offered a two year contract to a 37 year old injured Ortiz when he didn't get any such offers when he was healthy and age 35 and 36? It absurd to think that he might have been snatched away from us.

 

This offseason was different. There was a shortage of talent and a surplus of money. The contract the Rangers gave Berkman indicates they could have been after Ortiz.

[VA Sox Fan]

Come on man, read the article before passing judgement on a career ending injury. This had nothing to do with his Achilles.

 

Why is it we have so many so-called Red Sox fans here, whose first reaction is to expect the worst, and enjoy it?

 

We should just rename this entire website to Murphy's Law Red Sox. Because according to most people, the FO are idiots, the manager is a baffoon, Ortiz is never going to come back.

 

I literally have to be optimistic about every single player we have because the pessimism on this board is hideous and I try to balance it out.

 

At some point, though, reading through the same exact s*** over and over and over again about any and every player or any member of the FO becomes incredibly tired and miserable.

 

Our FO sucks, our manager sucks, our team sucks, and our prospects will all fizzle out.

 

Well then why in the hell do some of you even watch these games and watch this team?!?

 

LOL couldn't have said it better myself. It's like they get no enjoyment from anything team related and just expect misery. It's the older generation for the most part. I guess if I had been watching the team shoot itself in the foot for 50 years I'd have a hard time being anything other then a grumpy old man.

 

It's like the team won for awhile and these people lost their identity or something. Now they over compensate during a bad stretch for the franchise and feast on everything they can in case the team gives them nothing to be miserable about in the future.

 

He's crippled now? The guy has some minor inflammation in his heels, and suddenly his career is over. 5-7 days has somehow turned to 5-7 weeks.

 

And honestly, I do think some of the posters here enjoy predicting the team's doom. Most of them get some kind of satisfaction in being right, even though its at the expense of the team.

 

And just after you posted this, Fred posts his 5 years of failure nonsense. So, there you go.

 

Also, if all you want is meaningful games in September, you should have been fine with 09, 10 and 11, but you weren't.

 

Exactly.

 

"If I'm right about the team sucking, I can gloat about that. If I'm wrong about the team sucking, I can gloat about the team being a good team".

 

Yeah, it totally "kills them" and "ruins their day" so much that they are quick to use the I Told You So card.

 

If people want to be negative fans, it's fine by me. Just don't call others out for being ballwashers, because they don't agree with the negativity 100% of the time.

 

You liked the Victorino signing? Ballwasher.

 

You think the prospects that I don't like are good? Ballwasher.

 

You think the team could win 88 games and be in contention? Ballwasher.

 

You don't like my made up commentary? Ballwasher.

 

Pollyanna, pom-pom waving, front office worshiping, rose-colored glasses wearing, clueless ballwashers!!! ALL OF YOU!!! ;)

 

Seriously, you guys pegged the folks you referred too. Perfectly!

[jung]

The contract the Rangers gave Berkman indicates they could have been after Ortiz.

 

Fine, we are supposedly after "everybody" that becomes a FA. But that is not the point. Fine, I have little doubt that Texas would have made inquiries just like we make inquires. Take that to its logical conclusion assuming Texas could come to terms with Ortiz. They would have forced Ortiz to take the same physical that Berkman had to take. Ortiz would not have passed and that would have been the end of that.

 

That has been the point all along. Ortiz was 37 year old damaged goods. Nobody was going to offer Ortiz what he got from Boston for all the reasons I am too tired to repeat a third time here. The Berkman deal is not relevant because Ortiz could not have passed the physical that Berkman was forced to take and that Ortiz would surely have been forced to take had Texas taken their interest in Ortiz to a conclusion.

 

It is like folks want to forget the crux of the argument. Ortiz is/ was damaged goods....ergo can't pass physical.

[User Name]

jung, Berkman's knees are shot. His problem may be worse than Ortiz'. You're avoiding that clear-as-day issue to stand firm on your hindsight-based stance. Stop it.

[User Name]

Someone else would surely have given him a two-year deal? Really? Who would that be Mastermind? Talk about talking through your levis, that has to be rank with some of the dumbest things I've heard this spring. And what makes you such a know-it-all that it would have happened? It didn't because no team made such a move and they didn't because they knew Ortiz was hurt and might not recover and they sure as hell weren't going to give him the money the Red Sox did under those circumstances and then surrendeer a No. 1 draft choice in the bargain.

 

Now that the Red Sox have shut Ortiz down for a week, odds are he will not be ready for he season and it wouldn't surprise me if he winds up on the disabled list. As for people flip flopping, you base it what you think we would have said if it had turned out differently but from what I've read 700, SoxSport, Jung, me and others were never in favor of giving Ortiz a two year contract. You were because you support whatever the front office does. You cannot help yourself, it's in your DNA. If the front office does it, all is fine. Well all is not fine. There is a good chance we might get bumpkiss from Ortiz this season.

 

Fred, you are an idiot. Just look at the contract Texas gave Berkman and tell me they wouldn't have signed Ortiz. Also, there's one important thing lacking in YOUR DNA. The ability to use logic to form ideas.

[User Name]

And fair warning to you BSN....User never finds fault with anything the front office does. He goes down the line with them on every conceivable move they make and even when he occasionally say something they do wrong he quickly modifies that so as to make them less culpable for any miserable move they may have made.

 

We have had five years of failure and near failure and last year we had the worst season any Red Sox team has had since 1965. For some posters to gloss over that and play make believe that all our problems are now in our rear view mirror is to me absolutely foolhardy at best and totally ignorant at worst.

 

Now with Ortiz on the shelf for a week, don't be surprised if he winds up on the DL. He is not healing and in fact, it looks like his health has regressed. This is nothing to pass off as immaterial.

 

You're an idiot.

 

He woud have favored letting Ortiz walk if the FO had let him walk. He has no stomach to take a view opposite of the FO. What is the basis for anyone believing that some team would have offered a two year contract to a 37 year old injured Ortiz when he didn't get any such offers when he was healthy and age 35 and 36? It absurd to think that he might have been snatched away from us.

 

This is made-up ********. Also, i have made my personal criticisms of the FO known on site. You had me on ignore, so you don't know what you're talking about. However, unlike you, i'm no extremist, because you find everything the FO does wrong, and enjoy being a constant source of negativity. Glass house, stones and all that.

[VA Sox Fan]

You're an idiot.

 

Interesting that he brings your name up in a discussion you weren't a part of. Does the same thing to mvp or any of the many people that disagrees with him on a regular basis.

[jacksonianmarch]

Signing Ortiz while still injured with an injury that might require surgery was unwise. That being said, he'd have gotten a two yr deal on the open market. He rolled the dice and right now it's looking like Cherington might get burned

[User Name]

If it was unwise, what was the choice? That's the whole point. Do you risk further alienating the fanbase and being unable to replace his production? I don't think so.

[jacksonianmarch]

He was definitely painted into a corner with their most marketable player. He could have gone for berkman, although he's just as injured

[SoxSport]

Wilbur's latest criticism focusses on Ortiz:

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2013/03/as_far_as_late-.html

 

Does seem foolish for them to throw 2 years/$25 mil at Papi with uncertainty in his health.

Maybe they bought Valentine's story that Papi just sat to protect his next contract, and that he was bound to come back OK.

The team may have dug itself deeper throwing money at so many over 30 guys just to maybe stay respectable. Even for "short" term. After all, their own policy for years has been to avoid over 30 FAs.

These guys are a bigger injury risk.

[SoxSport]

Signing Ortiz while still injured with an injury that might require surgery was unwise. That being said, he'd have gotten a two yr deal on the open market. He rolled the dice and right now it's looking like Cherington might get burned

 

Don't think a 37yo guy coming off a foot injury will get a 2 year deal on the open market.

Star appeal in Boston got him the contract. He has thrown them a curve on his health.

[BSN07]

For those interested Bogaerts is coming up in the bottom of the 9th, tie game, runners on 1-2.

[SoxSport]

This offseason was different. There was a shortage of talent and a surplus of money. The contract the Rangers gave Berkman indicates they could have been after Ortiz.

 

Texas? no problem. Lucchino has nightmares about Ortiz playing in Yankee pinstripes.

[a700hitter]

This is made-up ********. Also, i have made my personal criticisms of the FO known on site. You had me on ignore, so you don't know what you're talking about. However, unlike you, i'm no extremist, because you find everything the FO does wrong, and enjoy being a constant source of negativity. Glass house, stones and all that.

Oh, so you don't like people mischaracterizing your opinions and ideas.

[SoxSport]

For those interested Bogaerts is coming up in the bottom of the 9th, tie game, runners on 1-2.

 

thanks for the tip. watching it now.