2013 Spring Training

[jung]

Don't be ridiculous. The Berkman deal is not at all comparable nor did he get two years. He got a year with a vesting option.

[Bellhorn04]

Don't be ridiculous. The Berkman deal is not at all comparable nor did he get two years. He got a year with a vesting option.

 

But he's guaranteed $11 million for one year after missing almost the entire 2012 season and talking retirement. It does tend to support User's position that the Rangers would have been willing to pay Ortiz close to what the Sox did.

[User Name]

What's ridiculous is to think they're not comparable. The vesting option is based on PA's, so it's easy to obtain if he's healthy, but that's the point. He's in worse shape than Ortiz, with chronic knee and shoulder problems, yet he still got a one-year guarantee plus a vesting option.

 

You're being unreasonable in order to defend a position not worth defending. You just don't have a leg to stand on.

[BSN07]

Don't be ridiculous. The Berkman deal is not at all comparable nor did he get two years. He got a year with a vesting option.

 

2/26M and 1/11+ 550 PA for an everyday DH vesting option for 13M isn't comparable? classic

[Palodios]

Who....well lets start with there is no direct replacement for Ortiz out there...maybe Thome comes close.

 

You're complaining about Ortiz who only played 90 games last year, and your solution is to replace him with a guy who hasn't played a full season since 2008?

 

And to say he's a greedy ballplayer? They're all greedy if you use that logic. He makes millions. So does Hamilton, Votto, Fielder, Cabrera .... you know, those guys that his offense is comparative to. If you want to put out a bunch of selfless players, watch independent leagues.

[User Name]

Who....well lets start with there is no direct replacement for Ortiz out there...maybe Thome comes close.

 

There are some overarching considerations here. There is no way the Sox would have considered them but I would have. In my view the Sox while enduring what is really based on expectation a bad few years and a completely horrible two years had been given an almost once in a lifetime opportunity via the LA deal. The culture of the Red Sox is not the culture of a winner. Sorry, nobody wishes it different more than I but it is not. The Pats are the only team in this town that has maintained the culture of a winner for any amount of time worth mentioning. Ortiz was the last of the players that cared more about piling more millions atop his already hefty bank account while the economy was going in the tank, people were losing jobs and their very homes and the team had turned into a bunch of whiny, loser malcontents. They had reached a depth that they were not even able to achieve during what some of us true masochists probably consider the real glory years (those before 2004). I would have dumped Ortiz on his royal ass regardless of the consequences. That would finally have cleaned house of the whiny malcontents. Ortiz does deserve honorable mention because with the exception of the one major slump he went through, it did not seem to affect his play. However he was dizzy enough to call that clubhouse of losers his own which was another effort at a money grab by Ortiz. That combined with his whining stuck him in the whiny, greedy malcontent category. In truth, Ortiz is not a leader anyway. Clearly the mess that had become the Sox clubhouse had an impact on him, not the other way around. This is not the Ortiz that we pulled off the scrap heap. Ortiz became the visible face of the greedy ballplayer....rich beyond his wildest dreams off of contracts from a team that had picked him off the scrap heap. But it was not enough because the Sox had f***ed up with so many other contracts that they owned him his f***ed up contract too. This ******** has simply gone on too long in Boston, so long that a number of us simply accept it as the norm and I think even find something attractive in it as if it has some sort of charm that is so classically Red Sox. It just has got to finally stop. It is no longer cute and I did not relish the nostalgic return to something even worse than the Yawkey clubhouse one bit. If it does not stop we will never in this town have consistent, year in year out contending Sox teams.

 

Plus it is high time for the Sox to bite the bullet. They should have made this Pedey's team without question. Pedey is the one guy that still cared about winning when everything was falling apart around him......the one guy that was not so obviously grabbing for everything he could get while the gettin' was good......just about as underpaid as Ortiz without all the drama. I would have even sweetened Pedey's deal at the point of having some extra cash to throw around not only to send a message to the rest of the team but to send a message to the fan base that they finally get it over there on Yawkey way and to quiet the idiots that have decided that Ortiz is some sort of god but Pedey is an *******. These people are gluttons for punishment.

 

So to me the Achilles was all the rational I needed. It would have made a tough decision easy. What better year to finally clean house completely and really move to change the culture of the Red Sox than this, a year that even LL is calling a bridge year. This is a year when they were already bringing in guys that simply play the game and are for the most part grateful for the incredible good fortune they and Ortiz for that matter have had. I simply no longer trust that even the two years would have kept David in line. He would have found something to complain about because that is what he has become.

 

If you want to talk about the Achilles itself, you just cannot ignore that sort of injury on a 37 year old player carting 250 lbs of beef around atop it. Remember, people were alarmed that it had made 0 progress even at the point of the signing. Not only was it still an issue but it had still to that point made 0 progress. Here we are months later and it has still made .........0 progress.

 

As for who to get as a replacement, I might have tried Thome. I might have gone in a completely different direction....away from the dedicated DH.....it would have been a good year to bite the bullet on that decision as well.

 

There is no direct replacement for Ortiz but that was in part the problem with going with him. We are sitting here considering whether or not we are going to be without him anyway and to not be willing to consider that very real possibility is sticking your head in the sand. At some point the risk is substantially higher that even if he does get comfortable enough to play, he is at considerable risk for just ripping the thing wide open anyway. Again, he is trying to stop and start 250 lbs when he is running on a weakened Achilles. Does anybody honestly think he is going to go from making no progress for months to having a healthy Achilles? He is currently by his own admission unable to play and even when back may well just rip the thing which ends his career! Does that sound like the Sox or what!!!

 

Thome last 3 years: .905 OPS, no longer an everyday player.

 

Ortiz last 3 years: .981 OPS, Boston stalwart and beloved by fans.

 

Common sense please.

[jung]

For one thing the Berkman deal was contingent on his passing a physical. Could Ortiz pass a physical right now...he can't even jog for crying out loud.

[ibot2much]

You just don't have a leg to stand on.

 

Just lke Ortiz with his two MRIs...one for each heel

[User Name]

Do you ever post something relevant? Honest question.

[jung]

The Herald reports today via Internet that David Ortiz has left JetBlue Park saying that Manager Farrell may have a comment regarding his status later this afternoon (Sunday). Ortiz refused to comment himself as he was leaving.

[RedSoxNC84]

I know this is off-topic but I found it interesting.. Allen Webster used to live just a couple miles from me

[BSN07]

For one thing the Berkman deal was contingent on his passing a physical. Could Ortiz pass a physical right now...he can't even jog for crying out loud.

 

Every player takes a physical. That's like saying his deal was contingent on him signing it with a pen...

[ibot2much]

Ortiz has been shut down for 5-7 days due to inflammation in both heels. He did have a tear in the A. tendon which has healed so this injury is thought to be separate from the A.

 

Being ready for Opening Day is not expected.

This is according to Peter Abraham on Boston.Com

[jung]

"Healed" is a rather loosely used term. Ortiz will not end up with the same Achilles he once had. He is going to be at an elevated risk level for continued Achilles damage and discomfort for the rest of whatever his career turns out to be.

 

Berkman had to pass a physical to get his money....a physical that Ortiz could surely not have passed either now or at any time since his re-injury. I don't see how you could use Berkman's Texas deal as an example of a team that would have signed Ortiz when Ortiz could not have passed the physical.

[ibot2much]

As a side note to the physical thing, I wondered if they could have gotten insurance on Ortiz in the condition he was in. I remember when they hired back Schilling for his many millions with the injured shoulder. After he pooped out and never pitched once, we heard that the RS had to eat that whole salary because the insurance company would not take Schill on as a risk.

 

For fear of setting off at least one person here, I will not state that the video game scam was Schill's second.

[Palodios]

"Healed" is a rather loosely used term. Ortiz will not end up with the same Achilles he once had. He is going to be at an elevated risk level for continued Achilles damage and discomfort for the rest of whatever his career turns out to be.

 

Come on man, read the article before passing judgement on a career ending injury. This had nothing to do with his Achilles.

 

Why is it we have so many so-called Red Sox fans here, whose first reaction is to expect the worst, and enjoy it?

[Bellhorn04]

For fear of setting off at least one person here, I will not state that the video game scam was Schill's second.

 

People generally profit from scams. Pretty sure that's not the case with Schilling's video game venture.

[mvp 78]

Watch out, his achilles injury is spreading to the other foot like a flesh eating disease! How did ownship not expect this injury to switch feet???

[Palodios]

Watch out, his achilles injury is spreading to the other foot like a flesh eating disease! How did ownship not expect this injury to switch feet???

 

Hey now, it did happen to Manny Ramirez's knees once

[jung]

I read the article.That is just terrific news for Red Sox fans. You have just got to be kidding. How does the article contradict anything I wrote? I have said that the term healed is used rather loosely and that he will be at an increased risk for what remains of his baseball career. I did not read anything that contradicted that.

 

It really does not matter. We will be able to tally up the games he plays soon enough and then we will know.

 

By the way, I would not discount the possibility that protecting the Achilles is causing Ortiz issues elsewhere. Have you seen what his efforts to "run" look like? Does that look like a natural stride to you.

[Dojji]

Watch out, his achilles injury is spreading to the other foot like a flesh eating disease! How did ownship not expect this injury to switch feet???

 

Don't talk like its completely implausible with an older player favoring one leg to keep playing despite an injury to the other.

 

I mean mostly I agree with you and the panic mongering is frankly hilarious, but let's be reality.

[mvp 78]

Don't talk like its completely implausible with an older player favoring one leg to keep playing despite an injury to the other.

 

I mean mostly I agree with you and the panic mongering is frankly hilarious, but let's be reality.

 

Yes, let's be reality.

[User Name]

Goddamnit i was about to post just that.

[SoxFanForsyth]

We should just rename this entire website to Murphy's Law Red Sox. Because according to most people, the FO are idiots, the manager is a baffoon, Ortiz is never going to come back.

 

I literally have to be optimistic about every single player we have because the pessimism on this board is hideous and I try to balance it out.

 

At some point, though, reading through the same exact s*** over and over and over again about any and every player or any member of the FO becomes incredibly tired and miserable.

 

Our FO sucks, our manager sucks, our team sucks, and our prospects will all fizzle out.

 

Well then why in the hell do some of you even watch these games and watch this team?!?

[Dojji]

Yes, let's be reality.

 

This is OUT HOUSE!

 

I miss HFBoards. Stupidest thing I've done in a long list of stupid things is managing to get banned there.

[BSN07]

We should just rename this entire website to Murphy's Law Red Sox. Because according to most people, the FO are idiots, the manager is a baffoon, Ortiz is never going to come back.

 

I literally have to be optimistic about every single player we have because the pessimism on this board is hideous and I try to balance it out.

 

At some point, though, reading through the same exact s*** over and over and over again about any and every player or any member of the FO becomes incredibly tired and miserable.

 

Our FO sucks, our manager sucks, our team sucks, and our prospects will all fizzle out.

 

Well then why in the hell do some of you even watch these games and watch this team?!?

 

LOL couldn't have said it better myself. It's like they get no enjoyment from anything team related and just expect misery. It's the older generation for the most part. I guess if I had been watching the team shoot itself in the foot for 50 years I'd have a hard time being anything other then a grumpy old man.

 

It's like the team won for awhile and these people lost their identity or something. Now they over compensate during a bad stretch for the franchise and feast on everything they can in case the team gives them nothing to be miserable about in the future.

[mvp 78]

This is OUT HOUSE!

 

I miss HFBoards. Stupidest thing I've done in a long list of stupid things is managing to get banned there.

 

In real, the health Ortiz was a huge question mark and the FO chose to sign him because he's a likable guy and the Sox were miserable last year.

 

To me, the contract was just a "thanks for the memories, do some more commercials, so that when Ells is gone in 2014 the pink hats will at least know one guy on the team." Since the Sox aren't going to be a WS contender this year or next, I can't be upset about him being injured.

[mvp 78]

Pre 2004: if they win once, I'll die happy

 

Now: they must win every year!

[Dojji]

Pre 2004: if they win once, I'll die happy

 

Now: they must win every year!

 

That's the truth.

[User Name]

In real, the health Ortiz was a huge question mark and the FO chose to sign him because he's a likable guy and the Sox were miserable last year.

 

To me, the contract was just a "thanks for the memories, do some more commercials, so that when Ells is gone in 2014 the pink hats will at least know one guy on the team." Since the Sox aren't going to be a WS contender this year or next, I can't be upset about him being injured.

 

Also, he can hit. There's that.

 

Those memories have amassed a .981 OPS the last three years.