Red Sox and Pirates have discussed Hanrahan

[SeanJohn93]

Two of the four players that we got from LA have been dumped. Two are left. It's starting to look more and more like a salary dump where we got just enough in return that the Commissioner would let it go through. We never wanted any of those guys, except De La Rosa who is probably a reliever.

 

Don't forget about Webster, he is projected to be atleast a #3 starter

[Rdsxmbnt]

Two of the four players that we got from LA have been dumped. Two are left. It's starting to look more and more like a salary dump where we got just enough in return that the Commissioner would let it go through. We never wanted any of those guys, except De La Rosa who is probably a reliever.

 

How is it dumping them if we got two useful players back, one of which has been an all-star the past two years.

 

And Webster and De La Rosa are two of the best arms in the system.

 

Whole post is just :dunno:

[SeanJohn93]

According to bleacherreport.com

 

Webster is the second-ranked prospect in the Dodgers’ farm system, according to Baseball America. The site also ranked him the 95th-best prospect in all of baseball in February.

 

He has spent this past season with the Chattanooga Lookouts in the Double-A Southern League. The righty has gone 6-8 in 27 games with a 3.55 ERA and 117 strikeouts and 57 walks.

[SeanJohn93]

Anybody think Brentz will have a better Red Sox career than Trot Nixon?

[italstallianion]

For what it's worth the Sox helped themselves by clearing some 40 spots which will come useful for the next rule 5 draft. Holt and DeJesus may be a wash but Holt has an option year remaining. For what it's worth Dejesus was our 36th ranked prospect (Pimental was 20th) and Brock Holt was the 18th ranked Pirates prospect by mlb.com.

 

I really have no idea why we did the trade. I don't think Hanrahan is worth it and I think Melancon can rebound, but I don't think we gave up much so I won't lose sleep over it. Meh.

[Dojji]

Two of the four players that we got from LA have been dumped. Two are left. It's starting to look more and more like a salary dump where we got just enough in return that the Commissioner would let it go through. We never wanted any of those guys, except De La Rosa who is probably a reliever.

 

I wouldn't call it a dump when we used the fair market value of both players to improve the team's outlook. We were desperate for quality depth at both middle infield positions. Sands for Holt is absolutely defensible.

 

More to the point, trading Sands now for a guy like Holt -- which I consider roughly fair value -- doesn't preclude them from having intended to use Sands themselves if the deal didn't come up.

 

Dejesus was never anything other than a makeweight. I can't see getting worked up over him even if he was "dumped."

 

Basicallly you're making the same mistake you always make a700. Looking at the results as if that was the only plan there ever was.

[SeanJohn93]

Former major leaguer Ryan Freel who played the majority of his career in the Reds organization committed suicide... RIP

[Dojji]

Anybody think Brentz will have a better Red Sox career than Trot Nixon?

 

Depends on how you mean. Numerically, it's not hard. Nixon's Red Sox career was basically 3 years. -- 01-03. Not hard to beat that level of production over a half decent career.

 

Iconically, it'd be really difficult. Trot was larger than life. And Bryce Brentz isn't nearly as awesome a name to say as Trot Nixon.

[SeanJohn93]

If the Napoli deal falls through, you could see two scenarios take place, one of which is the Adam LaRoche situation, he wants a 3 year deal while the Nats have only offered 2 and have told LaRoche that they will move on with Morse if he does not agree to 2 years. Whomever the Nats decide to go with, the other will be speculated to have interest from the Red Sox. Also, on a lesser note, Justin Smoak is available from the Mariners and has low value right now due to his disappointing season in the horrible hitting ballpark that Safeco field has to offer. Smoak could come here in a trade that involves Iggy, he would be expendable because of the holt acquisition.

[SoxSport]

Hanrahan deal finalized--Brock Holt for Dejusus final two players in deal. Holt is a 2B-SS, more hit than field. LHH, has always hit well for BA/OBP in minors. No power. .292 BA in short stint up with Pirates from AAA last year.Arm more suited for 2B. Looks like a utility player.

 

A bit disappointing since everybody expected Garret Jones. They just might be waiting for Napoli issue to resolve before they move further at 1B. Pirates have 3 1st baseman on roster right now, so Jones is probably expendable for a mutually agreeable player.

[Dojji]

... or we could break camp with Salty and Gomez splitting first base and Lavarnway and Ross splitting the catching duties.

 

Rather than give up valuable assets or bring in barely adequate talents, I might prefer that option.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Two of the four players that we got from LA have been dumped. Two are left. It's starting to look more and more like a salary dump where we got just enough in return that the Commissioner would let it go through. We never wanted any of those guys, except De La Rosa who is probably a reliever.

 

This is crazy.

 

The Sox got De La Rosa and Webster, both of which project to be top of the rotation pitchers (DLR could be an ace, Webster a #2/#3).

[Dojji]

Pretty much. It might be 2 of the 4, but's easily the 3rd and 4th most valuable players in the deal too. By a huge margin no less.

[SoxFanForsyth]

... or we could break camp with Salty and Gomez splitting first base and Lavarnway and Ross splitting the catching duties.

 

Rather than give up valuable assets or bring in barely adequate talents, I might prefer that option.

 

Salty/Gomez at 1B?!?

 

Yuck. Gag me.

 

I'd like to have an OBP at that position if I could.

[Lucienbel]

Brock Holt? I didn't see that coming. I was really hoping for Garett Jones. Good riddance to Melancon. What a turd! Ben thought his career was emerging, but it was about to submerge. Maybe he'll be a useful MIR guy for the Pirates. You don't use valuable trade chips to get a MIR guy.

 

I was also hoping that we'd end up with Jones too. Oh well, I still like this deal. Now it's just time to see what ends up happening with the Napoli thing. If Hanrahan can find his command again he'll be a great closer for us.

 

Someone also mentioned flipping Bailey and a smaller prospect for Porcello. Not sure if Bailey has that much value at the moment, but I'd love if we can make that happen.

[SoxSport]

Holt projects as a utility guy in the Pirates organization. He needs more power to offset his defensive liabilities at SS, to be a starter. Iglesias has enough defense to offset his weak offense if he can hit .250. It's a good idea to give him a full year in AAA, since he's only 22 and still has upside. I don't know what the Holt for DeJesus part of this deal was all about, except maybe they thought Holt would be a better utility player.

[redsoxfan3]

Two of the four players that we got from LA have been dumped. Two are left. It's starting to look more and more like a salary dump where we got just enough in return that the Commissioner would let it go through. We never wanted any of those guys, except De La Rosa who is probably a reliever.

 

I always was under the impression that it was a salary dump. I never really thought anything more of it, other than we got a 1B who could fill-in for the time being in Loney until the end of the year. We got Webster, DeJesus, Sands, Loney, and De La Rosa and freed up some money. We got some decent prospects in return.

 

I was interested in seeing what Sands could do, but he is still unproven. If Hanrahan has a solid year and we can sign him to another contract at the end of the year, I think this trade will even be that much better. We basically gave up a disappointment in Melancon, an unproven Sands, a prospect who has taken a step back in Pimentel, and an expendable utility player for an All-Star closer and another utility player/prospect. I am not disappointed at all about that. I think the trade was fair. Melancon is better off in the NL. We did not lose any top prospects or impact players, and we received one in return.

 

Webster and De La Rosa are still good prospects. I still do not mind the Dodgers trade. I still wish we had Gonzalez, but that was probably the only way we could have gotten rid of both Beckett and Crawford. The positive is that we have both of the two big prospects from that deal in Webster and De La Rosa, who could potentially be decent starters in the future.

[Palodios]

Two of the four players that we got from LA have been dumped. Two are left. It's starting to look more and more like a salary dump where we got just enough in return that the Commissioner would let it go through. We never wanted any of those guys, except De La Rosa who is probably a reliever.

 

Sands and Dejesus were never expected to be impact players. Never. The expectation is on Webster and De La Rosa by all means.

[italstallianion]

For the record, Webster and De La Rosa are our 4th and 5th best prospects according to Soxprospects. Dejesus was 36th. I think Sands was in the late teens or early 20's. I personally think Holt is a bit of an upgrade over Dejesus, not to mention the more convenient options.

[BSN07]

I think Iggy and Bailey are going to be on their way to Detroit for Porcello. They could really use Iggy's caliber of defense at SS and can hide him at #9. Bailey is the possible CL they are looking for.

[redsoxfan3]

For the record, Webster and De La Rosa are our 4th and 5th best prospects according to Soxprospects. Dejesus was 36th. I think Sands was in the late teens or early 20's. I personally think Holt is a bit of an upgrade over Dejesus, not to mention the more convenient options.

 

I never really heard anything good about DeJesus, so if Holt is an upgrade over DeJesus like you say, then that makes this trade better. DeJesus was expendable, that is for sure.

 

I think Iggy and Bailey are going to be on their way to Detroit for Porcello. They could really use Iggy's caliber of defense at SS and can hide him at #9. Bailey is the possible CL they are looking for.

 

I would be okay with that. Although, I think Bailey will be a nice bullpen piece for us this year. I would love for him to drop some weight and get into better shape. He could be a really good set-up man if he gets back to the way he was in Oakland. We have Tazawa, Bailey, Uehara, and Hanrahan as our late inning relievers. That is a very solid group. Our pen will look even better if Bard can become an elite reliever, have Miller pitch like he did last year, and have Aceves get back to the way he was for us in 2011. Not to mention we still have Breslow and Morales as options in the pen. Our pen is going to be a big strength for us.

 

Also, if any team can afford to put Iglesias in the linep, it is the Tigers. They will be getting plenty of offensive contribution from Hunter, Fielder, Cabrera, and Martinez (assuming Victor will be ready to go, which I have not heard).

[jacksonianmarch]

They didnt give up much in terms of 2013 value, that is for sure. I bet Pitt thinks they can turn Melancon into a guy like Hanrahan and make a big move with him

[a700hitter]

How is it dumping them if we got two useful players back, one of which has been an all-star the past two years.

 

And Webster and De La Rosa are two of the best arms in the system.

 

Whole post is just :dunno:

It remains to be seen whether they will be useful to us beyond De La Rosa becoming a reliever. Getting one reliever for AGon, Beckett, and Crawford for one guy that might be a reliever is a salary dump. That's pretty obvious.

[a700hitter]

Basicallly you're making the same mistake you always make a700. Looking at the results as if that was the only plan there ever was.

it was always obvious that the trade was first and foremost a salary dump. They got 3 All Star quality players without giving up their top hitting or pitching prospect. LA included nothing but players for which they had no future use and just enough tht it didn't look like we sold the players.

[Bellhorn04]

it was always obvious that the trade was first and foremost a salary dump. They got 3 All Star quality players without giving up their top hitting or pitching prospect. LA included nothing but players for which they had no future use and just enough tht it didn't look like we sold the players.

 

I was always surprised that we got this many prospects back. But you're probably right that the trade had to be structured this way to be allowed by the Commissioner.

[a700hitter]

I always was under the impression that it was a salary dump. I never really thought anything more of it, other than we got a 1B who could fill-in for the time being in Loney until the end of the year. We got Webster, DeJesus, Sands, Loney, and De La Rosa and freed up some money. We got some decent prospects in return.

 

I was interested in seeing what Sands could do, but he is still unproven. If Hanrahan has a solid year and we can sign him to another contract at the end of the year, I think this trade will even be that much better. We basically gave up a disappointment in Melancon, an unproven Sands, a prospect who has taken a step back in Pimentel, and an expendable utility player for an All-Star closer and another utility player/prospect. I am not disappointed at all about that. I think the trade was fair. Melancon is better off in the NL. We did not lose any top prospects or impact players, and we received one in return.

 

Webster and De La Rosa are still good prospects. I still do not mind the Dodgers trade. I still wish we had Gonzalez, but that was probably the only way we could have gotten rid of both Beckett and Crawford. The positive is that we have both of the two big prospects from that deal in Webster and De La Rosa, who could potentially be decent starters in the future.

It was a trade that had to be made, and JH and LL had no interest in who came back. They just wanted the trade to go through. How people can look at that trade as building our system is a bit overly optimistic. We have already gotten rid of Loney, DeJesus, and Sands. The fact that the other two are top ten prospects for us speaks volumes for the lack of pitching talent in our system.

[SoxFanForsyth]

It was a trade that had to be made, and JH and LL had no interest in who came back. They just wanted the trade to go through. How people can look at that trade as building our system is a bit overly optimistic. We have already gotten rid of Loney, DeJesus, and Sands. The fact that the other two are top ten prospects for us speaks volumes for the lack of pitching talent in our system.

 

Does the fact that both are top 100 prospects, DLR who would be top 50, speak volumes about the pitching talent overall?

[a700hitter]

I was always surprised that we got this many prospects back. But you're probably right that the trade had to be structured this way to be allowed by the Commissioner.

I am not criticizing the trade at all. As I said when it was just a rumor, I didn't care if we got anyone in return as long as they took the salaries. That was what it was all about. I think the Commisioner might have stepped in if it had not been a big market team like the Sox doing the selling. If it had been KC and not the Red Sox, it might have been a different outcome with the Commish.

[a700hitter]

Does the fact that both are top 100 prospects, DLR who would be top 50, speak volumes about the pitching talent overall?

Our system is not loaded with pitching talent. These guys are nothing special. Webster is slightly better as a prospect than Zach Stewart was. People tried to convince themselves that he was a possible back of the rotation starter for us before ended up in palooka- ville after the end of the season. I loved the LA trade, but people are over-estimating by a large margin what we got back.

[redsoxfan3]

It remains to be seen whether they will be useful to us beyond De La Rosa becoming a reliever. Getting one reliever for AGon, Beckett, and Crawford for one guy that might be a reliever is a salary dump. That's pretty obvious.

 

I agree with this. I don't really think anyone has a case with it being anything but a salary dump. Punto was a throw-in. Gonzalez, Beckett, and Crawford had contracts that totaled 364 million over the life of those contracts. Obviously all of that money was not owed to them because of years and time already played, but those are still very large contracts, which is the reason why it is considered a salary dump. We did get some decent prospects in return, but to argue anything other than the fact that we dumped a lot of salary is far from the truth. That was the main reason.

 

We lost a three time All-Star and two time top 10 Cy Young candidate in Beckett, we lost a four time All-Star and three time Gold Glove winner in Gonzalez, and a four time All-Star and one time Gold Glove winner in Crawford. Obviously there were power concerns with Gonzalez, under performance and health concerns with Crawford, and clubhouse and under performance concerns with Beckett. But, that is still a lot to replace. We did not trade away those guys because we were blown away by a trade from the Dodgers. We won the trade in terms of getting rid of a bunch of salary and still receiving prospects like Webster and De La Rosa. The Dodgers won that trade by present value impact players. A change of scenery will be good for those guys. The Dodgers got a 2.93 ERA from Beckett in seven starts. Gonzalez is a Gold Glove caliber 1B with a decent bat for them. They will be getting a healthy Crawford when he comes back. That in itself is enough to say that this was a salary dump. If we did it solely based on fairness of trade value without any financial impact, then we lost this trade.

 

It is only fair to say this was a salary dump. This was a big thing for us in financial flexibility. We were able to go out and sign Uehara, trade for Hanrahan, sign Napoli (assuming that we officially sign him), sign Victorino, sign Gomes, sign Drew, and sign Ross because of the financial flexibility that this trade gave us. We would not be able to make all of those signings without this trade. We might have been able to make the trade for Hanrahan, but DeJesus and Sands were both used in the trade for Hanrahan.

 

I know that you think that De La Rosa is going to be a reliever, but he still has potential to be a back-end of the rotation starter. I am not giving up hope on that just yet, but if anything, he still might be a decent reliever. Webster was the big prospect we got back. Even if projections have him as a middle to back-end of the rotation starter. I am sure plenty of people will be happy if he can become a reliable three or four starter. No one is expecting him to be an ace.