Lester on the block

[Designated Hater]

Time to go friend.

 

Your story was a good one while you were fighting and beating cancer, but from a baseball standpoint, you have not fulfilled your potential. You came close in 2009/2010, but went backwards the last couple years. And it also seems that you are easily swayed into partaking in activities that are detrimental to your teams well-being.

 

Ship him to KC and get this thing moving for 2013 already.

[MANNYHOF24]

I think this would be a mistake. He is still only 28, had a few down years (2011 wasn't bad by any means). The Red Sox will always be able to buy offense, I don't agree with unloading your potential best arm with the team so starved for pitching. I fully expect Lester to work his ass off this winter and have a rebound year.

[jopete19]

Well put... I think the Sox hired JF to better our pitchers. Don't get rid of Lester. He still has good innings left in him.

[rjortiz]

Lester for Myers is more than fair value for us. Sign Grienke as a replacement, and you've upgraded two areas of need.

[Bellhorn04]

Interesting rumor, I'll be checking MLBTR as always but I'm not holding my breath on this one coming to reality.

[onlybereaved]

I think this would be a mistake. He is still only 28, had a few down years (2011 wasn't bad by any means). The Red Sox will always be able to buy offense, I don't agree with unloading your potential best arm with the team so starved for pitching. I fully expect Lester to work his ass off this winter and have a rebound year.

 

Agreed/Backed. My vote would go to keeping Lester.

[Lord Snow]

Lester is not on the block.

 

The Red Sox only have 2/5ths of the rotation filled with quality arms. Do you really think they're looking to make it 1/5th?

 

While the deal would be attractive to a team with 5 or 6 good options for the rotation the Sox simply cannot afford to part with Lester or Buchholz this offseason. No way.

[Lucienbel]

I think this would be a mistake. He is still only 28, had a few down years (2011 wasn't bad by any means). The Red Sox will always be able to buy offense, I don't agree with unloading your potential best arm with the team so starved for pitching. I fully expect Lester to work his ass off this winter and have a rebound year.

 

I'm also going to agree. Way too soon to give up on him, and I see him still having some good years left in the future.

[wetcamelfood]

I was ready to trade him for Johan Santana then I heard Farrell say he would be a 15 game winner and thought he was nuts but he was right, he was great when Farrell was here. No coincidence to me that he sucked the minute Farrell left so now that he's back I say keep him too. Fair enough if Les still sucks later but for now no trade. I guess my only concern is if our pitchers run to Farrell for advice if they don't like what they hear from whoever is going to be the pitching coach now then he'll think "why am I here if they're going to ask Farrell everything" but whatever that's their problem to figure out I guess.

[Lord Snow]

I was ready to trade him for Johan Santana then I heard Farrell say he would be a 15 game winner and thought he was nuts but he was right, he was great when Farrell was here. No coincidence to me that he sucked the minute Farrell left so now that he's back I say keep him too. Fair enough if Les still sucks later but for now no trade. I guess my only concern is if our pitchers run to Farrell for advice if they don't like what they hear from whoever is going to be the pitching coach now then he'll think "why am I here if they're going to ask Farrell everything" but whatever that's their problem to figure out I guess.

 

It wouldn't be a bad idea for the Red Sox to go out and maybe trade for Johan Santana this off-season. The Mets would probably welcome the opportunity to get rid of his contract (he's owed $31M through 2013; $25.5M in 2013 + $25M club option with $5.5M buyout for 2014).

 

Santana pitched well during the first half of 2012 but an ankle injury and a back injury destroyed his second half and ultimately ended his season early. I'm encouraged by the fact that his arm is okay. The Sox have the money to spend and Santana threw 103 innings before the ASB with a 3.24 ERA. I'd like that kind of production on the Sox.

 

Complete fringe trade idea, but I'd be happy with it.

[a700hitter]

It wouldn't be a bad idea for the Red Sox to go out and maybe trade for Johan Santana this off-season. The Mets would probably welcome the opportunity to get rid of his contract (he's owed $31M through 2013; $25.5M in 2013 + $25M club option with $5.5M buyout for 2014).

 

Santana pitched well during the first half of 2012 but an ankle injury and a back injury destroyed his second half and ultimately ended his season early. I'm encouraged by the fact that his arm is okay. The Sox have the money to spend and Santana threw 103 innings before the ASB with a 3.24 ERA. I'd like that kind of production on the Sox.

 

Complete fringe trade idea, but I'd be happy with it.

It's worth looking into since he brings only a 2 year commitment. Is Cherries creative enough to consider this?

[SeanJohn93]

Santana is owed too much money and has been an injury concern ever since joining the mets. No way do I want him and his lucrative contract on the sox and give up significant prospects for him

[a700hitter]

Santana is owed too much money and has been an injury concern ever since joining the mets. No way do I want him and his lucrative contract on the sox and give up significant prospects for him

I wouldn't consider giving up significant prospects in a salary dump.

[Orange Juiced]

I'm also going to agree. Way too soon to give up on him, and I see him still having some good years left in the future.

 

I would definitely consider trading him for Myers, and I wouldn't consider it "giving up on" Lester. I would consider it for two reasons:

 

(1) that they would have an opportunity to trade him for a major, major offensive prospect, and

 

(2) that there is more pitching available in the free agent market than there is good hitting. So they could go right back out and fill that pitching void easier than they could acquire a potential 35-40 home run bat that they'd have cost-controlled for years.

 

I think Lester is likely to have a good year this year; I'm not advocating giving up on him. I just think you could trade him for something really special and use your other resources (namely, money) to fill in the other holes.

[Emmz]

Lester is not on the block.

 

The Red Sox only have 2/5ths of the rotation filled with quality arms. Do you really think they're looking to make it 1/5th?

 

While the deal would be attractive to a team with 5 or 6 good options for the rotation the Sox simply cannot afford to part with Lester or Buchholz this offseason. No way.

 

Would you still consider Lester a quality starter, though? Everyone's making the assumption that Farrell is the reason for his successes, and lack thereof.

[Palodios]

Give him a real catcher, and watch him turn back to the real Lester. His decline and Salty's prominence are far too coincidental for my tastes.

[Behindenemylines]

Lester is a lefty, home grown, and still young with a lot of bullets left in his arm. I'm not moving him unless its in a package to Seattle for King Felix. We have been complaining that the Sox have no starting pitching and we are going to trade one of the few we have. Besides the name that the KC media brought up was Wil Myers. He is a corner outfielder with power and at best an average fielder. Not someone you trade a proven starting pitcher for.

[a700hitter]

Would you still consider Lester a quality starter, though? Everyone's making the assumption that Farrell is the reason for his successes, and lack thereof.

I don't think pitching coaches play any significant role in a pitcher's success or failure at the major league level. I have met some pretty good pitchers over the years and not a single one attributes his success to his pitching coach. This is far from a scientific survey, but I get the feeling that their sentiments are pretty representative of pitchers as a whole. If Lester figures things out a returns to form, I don't think it will have much to do with Farrell.

[mvp 78]

If Lester figures things out a returns to form, I don't think it will have much to do with Farrell.

 

Especially since HE'S NOT THE PITCHING COACH.

[a700hitter]

Especially since HE'S NOT THE PITCHING COACH.

Good point.

[Lord Snow]

Would you still consider Lester a quality starter, though? Everyone's making the assumption that Farrell is the reason for his successes, and lack thereof.

 

Yes. As a Sox fan I have to consider Lester a quality starter. The 2013 season is dependent on him regaining his 2008-2011 form. Age is on Lester's side which is a major positive.

 

He had a bad season. But so did the Red Sox. Lester didn't have much to pitch for. I thought the team as a whole gave up last year. Now, Lester is a professional and ideally should be pitching his heart out whether his team is 10 games above .500 or 10 games below but he is human. I'm willing to give him a mulligan if he goes out and gives us 220 innings next season like we all know he can.

[jacksonianmarch]

Lester's problem isnt physical, he lost his way last yr. It's easier to fix a mental issue rather than a physical loss of stuff. While I don't forsee a 20 win 220IP 3.10ERA season next yr, I think he starts progressing towards his natural ability

[SoxFanForsyth]

Especially since HE'S NOT THE PITCHING COACH.

 

Completely irrelevant. Just because Farrell isn't the pitching coach does not negate the history he has with Lester, or the fact that he is still a manager with a strong pitching background.

 

Not like he's going to just ignore the pitchers, and for a guy as monumental to the Red Sox success as Lester, he's going to do everything in his power to get him back on track, even if that means intruding on pitching coach duties.

 

The fact that he's not the pitching coach is completely meaningless. He's still going to get him back on track, or the Sox will be a bad team again.

[Emmz]

Yes. As a Sox fan I have to consider Lester a quality starter. The 2013 season is dependent on him regaining his 2008-2011 form. Age is on Lester's side which is a major positive.

 

He had a bad season. But so did the Red Sox. Lester didn't have much to pitch for. I thought the team as a whole gave up last year. Now, Lester is a professional and ideally should be pitching his heart out whether his team is 10 games above .500 or 10 games below but he is human. I'm willing to give him a mulligan if he goes out and gives us 220 innings next season like we all know he can.

 

your argument is based entirely off of assumption, the biggest one being that he will regain his prime form. What suggests he will regain form, when he's statistically trending downward?

 

the other two assumptions you're making are that Lester wasn't in the game mentally, and that the team's poor play is to blame for this. A lot has to go right for you to be right.

[Elktonnick]

Lester's problem isnt physical, he lost his way last yr. It's easier to fix a mental issue rather than a physical loss of stuff. While I don't forsee a 20 win 220IP 3.10ERA season next yr, I think he starts progressing towards his natural ability

 

Is it? As Yogi famously said " Ninety percent of this game is half mental". Then again just look at Daniel Bard. From what I ahve seen Lester's problem is not only mental but physical. His velocity was down. He may have lost a consistent fastball. Why? I don't know but he has lost confidence in that pitch and he over used his cutter which is being clobbered.

[SoxSport]

Somebody leaked this proposed deal, and it probably wasn't the Red Sox. It doesn't appear Lester is "on the block". Rather it looks like KC is looking for a starter and asked about Lester, dangling Myers as the bait.

 

There are two sides to looking at this proposed deal. One side says yes--Myers is the best hitting prospect in the minors right now, and Lester had an off year. Plus it opens a spot in the rotation for somebody else, and they can use Lester's salary elsewhere. The other side says it's crazy to weaken your weakest link when you should be strengthening it.

 

The question is which Lester will show up next year. Also, Myers looks like he needs a half year or more in AAA. They are in good financial position now to spend, so why not go after FAs instead of prospects they have enough of right now.

 

I still think they should go after Hamilton. He would energize the fanbase and fill the middle part of the lineup. I don't see that happening next year with Myers. Or maybe ever, as prospects go.

[Elktonnick]

Somebody leaked this proposed deal, and it probably wasn't the Red Sox. It doesn't appear Lester is "on the block". Rather it looks like KC is looking for a starter and asked about Lester, dangling Myers as the bait.

 

There are two sides to looking at this proposed deal. One side says yes--Myers is the best hitting prospect in the minors right now, and Lester had an off year. Plus it opens a spot in the rotation for somebody else, and they can use Lester's salary elsewhere. The other side says it's crazy to weaken your weakest link when you should be strengthening it.

 

The question is which Lester will show up next year. Also, Myers looks like he needs a half year or more in AAA. They are in good financial position now to spend, so why not go after FAs instead of prospects they have enough of right now.

 

I still think they should go after Hamilton. He would energize the fanbase and fill the middle part of the lineup. I don't see that happening next year with Myers. Or maybe ever, as prospects go.

 

They may "kick the tires" on Hamilton but I can't see it happening for alot of reasons. Some club will give Hamilton more than five years and I can't see Boston doing that. If they were then they haven't learned anything from the FA signings that got them in this pickle in the first place.

[mvp 78]

Completely irrelevant. Just because Farrell isn't the pitching coach does not negate the history he has with Lester, or the fact that he is still a manager with a strong pitching background.

 

Not like he's going to just ignore the pitchers, and for a guy as monumental to the Red Sox success as Lester, he's going to do everything in his power to get him back on track, even if that means intruding on pitching coach duties.

 

The fact that he's not the pitching coach is completely meaningless. He's still going to get him back on track, or the Sox will be a bad team again.

 

It's relevant as his duties with the rest of the team and FO will cause him to spend far less time with the SP's.

[Lord Snow]

I'm getting a vibe that the big money isn't out there for free agents this off-season.

 

I understand it's still before winter meetings, but there hasn't even been rumors of offers for any of the top free agents which makes me think that Josh Hamilton's 7-year $175M contract isn't happening, nor is Zack Greinke's 6-year $160M contract (or whatever his camp is trying to sling). I haven't boo on Anibal Sanchez either.

[jung]

Apparently the Sox and KC were in general discussions the past few days. Everybody's name gets mentioned in those discussions cause both sides are trying to figure out which players there might at least be some movement on and which would be "a hard no".

 

I don't even know why somebody thinks this sort of stuff is even worth a leak. The mediots are always looking to get their columns over the crease though.