Rotation

[Bellhorn04]

The two guys that really interest me right now are Jeremy Guthrie and Shaun Marcum. They're both AL East pitchers who throw big innings. AND, they're both going to get reasonable contracts.

 

I understand they both have question marks from last season, but AL East middle of the rotation pitchers available for cheap... why hesitate?

 

I agree, a couple of reasonable targets there.

[a700hitter]

The two guys that really interest me right now are Jeremy Guthrie and Shaun Marcum. They're both AL East pitchers who throw big innings. AND, they're both going to get reasonable contracts.

 

I understand they both have question marks from last season, but AL East middle of the rotation pitchers available for cheap... why hesitate?

We could do worse. We could get them both and still have a ton of payroll available. IMO, they could upgrade from Guthrie and have plenty of payroll to play with.

[Station 13]

We could do worse. We could get them both and still have a ton of payroll available. IMO, they could upgrade from Guthrie and have plenty of payroll to play with.

 

They have over $100M to go to match last year's payroll. They should able to get a few 'can't miss' players if there's such out there.

[SoxSport]

They have over $100M to go to match last year's payroll. They should able to get a few 'can't miss' players if there's such out there.

 

I'd be surprised if they get to $50 million in pre-season spending. They won't come close to matching last season's payroll, which was too high for them. That's why they dumped salary.

 

I have a hunch Henry is playing it tight to the vest on spending. It could be almost as tight as last year. He is well-positioned now to sell the team, and that could be his priority. Even if he doesn't sell, I think he will continue to be conservative on spending.

[Bellhorn04]

I'd be surprised if they get to $50 million in pre-season spending. They won't come close to matching last season's payroll, which was too high for them. That's why they dumped salary.

 

I have a hunch Henry is playing it tight to the vest on spending. It could be almost as tight as last year. He is well-positioned now to sell the team, and that could be his priority. Even if he doesn't sell, I think he will continue to be conservative on spending.

 

If that were the case I don't think Cherry would have made the comments he did about the payroll being large this year.

[BSN07]

If that were the case I don't think Cherry would have made the comments he did about the payroll being large this year.

 

Ya I saw that too. I haven't heard too many rumors about Grienke, so I'm feeling that this could be the big money guy if they do happen to go out and get one. They tried to downplay the Hamilton talks as due diligence. So I'm not totally sold they are serious about him.

 

Besides I don't think they need to go right back to the LT limit this year. I think they can field a respectable team at 120-130M. Leaving plenty of room for moves over the next couple years.

[rjortiz]

I wouldn't be opposed to adding Kuroda and Marcum. Two solid pitchers on short term deals. We could flip them at the deadline if we aren't competitive.

[Bellhorn04]

Ya I saw that too. I haven't heard too many rumors about Grienke, so I'm feeling that this could be the big money guy if they do happen to go out and get one. They tried to downplay the Hamilton talks as due diligence. So I'm not totally sold they are serious about him.

 

Besides I don't think they need to go right back to the LT limit this year. I think they can field a respectable team at 120-130M. Leaving plenty of room for moves over the next couple years.

 

One thing about this, though: the new rules that come into effect for 2014 are so punitive for going over the LT threshold (which is 189M for 2014) that teams may be doing whatever they can to stay under each year. So if the Sox do have a 2013 payroll of 120-130M, with the 2013 threshold at 178M, we can't expect them to spend the 'extra' 48-58M in 2014 or future years. I would expect them to make an effort to spend at least 150-160M this year.

[Palodios]

We could do worse. We could get them both and still have a ton of payroll available. IMO, they could upgrade from Guthrie and have plenty of payroll to play with.

 

Guthrie had a 4.00 ERA during his time in the AL East.

 

Even if the Red Sox spend 100 million for a guy like Greinke/Sanchez or bid on Haren, they may still end up as worse players because of the transition from the NL or from the AL West.

 

Put into perspective, Greinke has a 3.77 career ERA, while Shaun Marcum has a 3.76 career ERA. His health issues are concerning, but once again, AL East experience, and a bargain.

[SoxSport]

If that were the case I don't think Cherry would have made the comments he did about the payroll being large this year.

 

Yeah, I think I wrote the post before I heard that comment. I then wrote a post saying that could mean they're going after Hamilton. First Heyman writes an article about rumors of Hamilton and the Red Sox, and now further talk on the Rose/Millar show on mlb.com tonite.

The feeling is the Sox need a superstar for that market and somebody to anchor the lineup--having traded AdGon reluctantly-- to unload Crawford and Beckett.

[jung]

Well at least Hamilton might actually be an anchor. Agons was turning into a lead weight...not quite the same thing.:D

[Bellhorn04]

So much for Guthrie...re-signed with the Royals today.

[BSN07]

So much for Guthrie...re-signed with the Royals today.

 

On a 3 year deal. You honestly can't be too disappointed?

 

He was a one year type, I'm not sure anyone other then the Royals would have offered him multiple years. I'm glad the Sox didn't offer him something similar to KC's offer.

[Bellhorn04]

On a 3 year deal. You honestly can't be too disappointed?

 

He was a one year type, I'm not sure anyone other then the Royals would have offered him multiple years. I'm glad the Sox didn't offer him something similar to KC's offer.

 

It makes you wonder, though, if there are any good deals on pitchers to be had. Prices keep getting higher.

[Palodios]

On a 3 year deal. You honestly can't be too disappointed?

 

He was a one year type, I'm not sure anyone other then the Royals would have offered him multiple years. I'm glad the Sox didn't offer him something similar to KC's offer.

 

I adamantly disagree.

 

Put it into perspective. Guthrie would be taking Daisuke's spot in the rotation. This is a guy with a career 4.28 ERA 200 inning guy-- despite pitching the majority of his career in the American League east.

 

Sure, he got years, but not AAV. 3/24 to play for the Royals? I bet he would have taken a 2/18-20 deal with an option to play for the Red Sox, and that's pennies compared to other contracts out there.

 

I'm very concerned that we're going to end up with an overpaid NL West pitcher who can't handle the East.

[Bellhorn04]

Kuroda re-signed with the Yankees for $15 million.

[BSN07]

Kuroda re-signed with the Yankees for $15 million.

 

Ya it was rumored he was either playing for the Yankees or going back to Japan. AAV is a bit high but on a one year deal it's hard to argue with it.

[jung]

15 sounds like the most somebody would have offered Kuroda even on a one year deal. I suspect that was the best he was offered and the Yanks matched it.

[Bellhorn04]

It's a 50% raise for Kuroda. Add that to Guthrie's $25 million deal and the message is loud and clear: the price of pitching continues to have a high rate of inflation.

[a700hitter]

It's a 50% raise for Kuroda. Add that to Guthrie's $25 million deal and the message is loud and clear: the price of pitching continues to have a high rate of inflation.

Yep. People who think there are cheap value pitching options are just kidding themselves. The best pitching value in baseball is Gio Gonzalez who extended with the Nats for 5 years for about $40 million. That was a huge swing and a miss by Cherries.

[mvp 78]

Sox need frontline starters and they aren't available via FA this year. Need to make some trades. Getting a 4.00 ERA starter isn't adding much to this team.

[a700hitter]

Sox need frontline starters and they aren't available via FA this year. Need to make some trades. Getting a 4.00 ERA starter isn't adding much to this team.

I disagree. A couple of starters who eat 200 innings and pitch to a 4 ERA would help enormously.

[mvp 78]

The problem with the rotation is the front end, not back end.

[Dojji]

It's both actually.

[RedSoxNC84]

I'm hoping the priority really is pitching this offseason. It seems a lot like they are spending too much time signing backup catchers and monitoring Hamilton instead of eyeing pitchers in trades or free agency. I'm not saying Cherington should have given Jeremy Guthrie 25MM but still, we haven't had a single pitching acquisition yet, minus the pitching coach.

 

Starting to look a lot like last offseason, I wonder when he'll start signing the retreads..

[Bellhorn04]

Yep. People who think there are cheap value pitching options are just kidding themselves. The best pitching value in baseball is Gio Gonzalez who extended with the Nats for 5 years for about $40 million. That was a huge swing and a miss by Cherries.

 

I think it was actually a caught looking.

[BSN07]

I'm hoping the priority really is pitching this offseason. It seems a lot like they are spending too much time signing backup catchers and monitoring Hamilton instead of eyeing pitchers in trades or free agency. I'm not saying Cherington should have given Jeremy Guthrie 25MM but still, we haven't had a single pitching acquisition yet, minus the pitching coach.

 

Starting to look a lot like last offseason, I wonder when he'll start signing the retreads..

 

So they aren't working on anything other then whats being reported in the media?

 

And he hasn't signed anyone yet? It's not even December. Out of all the guys signed so far who would you have wanted? Hunter would have been nice, but his 1st choice was Detroit and didn't give other teams a chance to make an offer. Guthrie? 3 years? God no. Kuroda? Again would have been nice, but it was reported it was going to be Yankees or Japan. Not much you can do there. Any other gem the FO missed out on that I've over looked?

 

This year has been backwards for the most part. The guys that are usually signing late in the off season are signing quick and the big name FA's aren't guessitmated to sign until well into December. But as for the pace of the off season? I don't see it as any different as any other off season. Major things typically don't happen until after Thanksgiving and sometimes not even until the Winter Meetings.

 

.

[Bellhorn04]

So they aren't working on anything other then whats being reported in the media?

 

And he hasn't signed anyone yet? It's not even December. Out of all the guys signed so far who would you have wanted? Hunter would have been nice, but his 1st choice was Detroit and didn't give other teams a chance to make an offer. Guthrie? 3 years? God no. Kuroda? Again would have been nice, but it was reported it was going to be Yankees or Japan. Not much you can do there. Any other gem the FO missed out on that I've over looked?

 

This year has been backwards for the most part. The guys that are usually signing late in the off season are signing quick and the big name FA's aren't guessitmated to sign until well into December. But as for the pace of the off season? I don't see it as any different as any other off season. Major things typically don't happen until after Thanksgiving and sometimes not even until the Winter Meetings.

 

.

 

This year, though, the Sox have a lot of needs and the free agent market is thin and getting thinner.

[BSN07]

This year, though, the Sox have a lot of needs and the free agent market is thin and getting thinner.

 

Doesn't mean you throw more money at s***. It's thin for a reason. And just because they have a lot to spend, doesn't mean they have to spend it now. Maybe they really are on total rebuild mode. ANd if that's the case how often to those teams jump early into Free Agency?

 

I'd rather see a team of prospects then team full of Guthrie's, Berkman's, and other retreads that don't make the team significantly better and save the money for a legit star.

[Palodios]

Doesn't mean you throw more money at s***. It's thin for a reason. And just because they have a lot to spend, doesn't mean they have to spend it now. Maybe they really are on total rebuild mode. ANd if that's the case how often to those teams jump early into Free Agency?

 

I'd rather see a team of prospects then team full of Guthrie's, Berkman's, and other retreads that don't make the team significantly better and save the money for a legit star.

 

Guthrie is not s***. Unlike the majority of the players out there, he is AL East proven.

 

Once again, realize that he would be taking the place of Daisuke Matsuzaka in the rotation, not Beckett.