Do Sox give Ellsbury Crawford's money?

[Behindenemylines]

I think the dumping of Crawford contract was saying that Crawford wasn't worth the $$$$$$. I think the Sox will go back to putting a worth on a player and if that player wants more they will trade him or let him walk. I don't think it will be the years that the Red Sox have a problem with in what Boros will ask for, I think it will be how much $$$$ per year he wants for Ellsbury. Sox could offer 5 years at 15 million and if Ellsbury wants to play in Boston he should take that. If he ask for more $$$$ the Sox will trade him some time before next July's trading deadline.

[Spitball]

Olney said. "I'm guessing at some point the Red Sox are going to talk to Scott, see if they can work out some deal, get a price tag on him, it's going to be monumental, it's going to be astronomical, then they'll go out and talk to teams about a trade. And I'll be surprised if anyone blows them away, because of the fact that he's going to be a free agent next fall with Scott as his agent."

 

This is the dilemma. I am not sure Ellsbury will be worth a price tag that is "going to be monumental, it's going to be astronomical." But, if the Sox trade him, he is saddled with the injury issues and Scott Boras.

 

I believe the best hope is that Josh Hamilton signs with the Angels, and the Rangers are desperate for a replacement. They have a surplus of young shortstops and young pitchers. Plus, the Sox have centerfielder Jackie Bradley nearly ready.

[Bellhorn04]

This is the dilemma. I am not sure Ellsbury will be worth a price tag that is "going to be monumental, it's going to be astronomical." But, if the Sox trade him, he is saddled with the injury issues and Scott Boras.

 

 

It seems strange hearing this kind of hyperbole about a player who is muddling along with a line of 262/306/362 and 2 HR in 56 games. Perhaps the injury has contributed to the struggles, but perhaps that's not such a good thing either.

[Spitball]

It seems strange hearing this kind of hyperbole about a player who is muddling along with a line of 262/306/362 and 2 HR in 56 games. Perhaps the injury has contributed to the struggles, but perhaps that's not such a good thing either.

 

It is not a good thing, in my opinion, if they overpay long term for Ellsbury. He is pretty much Crawford without the track record. I wish they had traded him last winter when his value was arificially high.

[jung]

Hindsight is 20:20 but Ells is to typical for a Sox player. In reality the odds were way in favor that Ells 2011 was a once in a career event for him. As I have said I think he is a fine ball player that will have fine but not outstanding seasons for the remainder of his career all of which will remain under the shadow of injury and what injury does to him as a player.

 

The Sox have never in my mind played the odds with players and have taken the long odds time and time again. When you don't win any of those long shot bets, you really end up behind the eight ball as you did not take advantage of the player's value when you had the chance and you now have an asset that is quickly declining in value.

 

I am not even sure we should consider the fact that Ells will not be able to get anything like the contract deal he could have had "looking on bright side" as we likely would have been better off with the assets we could have garnered out of trading him at his peak than we will be getting more time out of Ells at a relative bargain price.

 

Boras will be in a tough spot for a change as he will likely be forced to concede and take an extension deal for Ells with the Sox or run the very real risk of Ells having a very similar 2013 to his 2012 which will make FA a bust for both of them. Even a mean average kind of season for Ells in 2013 will not come close to recovering for him the lost FA value he once would have had.

[SCM33]

Deal Ellsbury, get what you can.....he wont be worth the contract, and who knows what we get back in a trade.......but there is no way we can pay this guy 20M a year long term.

 

We just got rid of Carl Crawford, no need to sign up for another one.

[SoxSport]

Ellsbury isn't even worth considering for big money unless he shows he can repeat last year's season next year.

I hope he never gets the chance to do that in a Red Sox uniform. He should be traded in the off-season for a starter. They have enough outfield prospects, but they don't have the pitching.

 

One of Henry's problems is he hates to break the umbilical cord. This has hurt the Red Sox in the past developing opportunities for younger players. That has to end if they are going to contend again.

[Elktonnick]

Ellsbury isn't even worth considering for big money unless he shows he can repeat last year's season next year.

I hope he never gets the chance to do that in a Red Sox uniform. He should be traded in the off-season for a starter. They have enough outfield prospects, but they don't have the pitching.

 

One of Henry's problems is he hates to break the umbilical cord. This has hurt the Red Sox in the past developing opportunities for younger players. That has to end if they are going to contend again.

 

I certainly agree. Ellsbury confounds me. I am afraid he could be another Brady Anderson who had one truly great year. If the Sox could get a reasonably solid starter, a nbr 3 or better I 'd of course trade him. If not, I'd wait to see what he does next year. Granderson is scheduled to be a free agent I believe at the end of 2013. Granderson may be signable at a more reasonable rate than Ellsbury.

[jung]

Well I don't know if you would get Granderson for less but I have really begun to lose interest in seeing Ells remain long term. Boras continuing to insist that he will go to FA probably limits how much the Sox could get back for him. I still think the Sox should try to force the issue if they are not already. See if they can sign him for reasonable money. If not see if they can trade him and get anything back. If not they are stuck with letting him play out his current contract. I just don't like what I see.

[SoxSport]

I certainly agree. Ellsbury confounds me. I am afraid he could be another Brady Anderson who had one truly great year. If the Sox could get a reasonably solid starter, a nbr 3 or better I 'd of course trade him. If not, I'd wait to see what he does next year. Granderson is scheduled to be a free agent I believe at the end of 2013. Granderson may be signable at a more reasonable rate than Ellsbury.

 

I like Grandy, too, but I think the Yankees will re-sign him. He's too good a hitter in Yankees stadium. And a nice guy. Right now, his numbers are down, and he's not a great OBP guy, so we'll see what he wants.

 

I can't see them re-signing Ellsbury with Boras as his agent. Boras thinks his players are God and deserve top dollar. He sometimes builds ridiculous cases for them. Owners like Henry and the Phillies owners don't like to deal with Boras. That's why they didn't re-sign Madsen. Lucky for them.

[a700hitter]

I like Grandy, too, but I think the Yankees will re-sign him. He's too good a hitter in Yankees stadium. And a nice guy. Right now, his numbers are down, and he's not a great OBP guy, so we'll see what he wants.

 

I can't see them re-signing Ellsbury with Boras as his agent. Boras thinks his players are God and deserve top dollar. He sometimes builds ridiculous cases for them. Owners like Henry and the Phillies owners don't like to deal with Boras. That's why they didn't re-sign Madsen. Lucky for them.

We would have to over pay Granderson to get him from the Yankees. We are a dysfunctional circus. Why would he come here?

[Palodios]

We would have to over pay Granderson to get him from the Yankees. We are a dysfunctional circus. Why would he come here?

 

Granderson shouldn't be the Red Sox's target. I think the perfect opportunity for them is Shane Victorino. He's a player coming off a bad season, with a good combination of speed and power. The Red Sox are probably looking at players that they can get with one year contracts with high annual value. Victorino would be able to rebuild his value here, as the Red Sox themselves begin to rebuild. With Crawford, Kemp, Ethier in the outfield for the Dodgers in 2013, he'll likely be available.

[a700hitter]

Granderson shouldn't be the Red Sox's target. I think the perfect opportunity for them is Shane Victorino. He's a player coming off a bad season, with a good combination of speed and power. The Red Sox are probably looking at players that they can get with one year contracts with high annual value. Victorino would be able to rebuild his value here, as the Red Sox themselves begin to rebuild. With Crawford, Kemp, Ethier in the outfield for the Dodgers in 2013, he'll likely be available.

I like Shane. He can be a bit of a hot head, but he plays hard and smart. I am not sure that he is a 1 year sign. I could see the Giants going after him.

[Spitball]

Jackie Bradley is a centerfielder and a top prospect. Let's hope the Red Sox recognize a new direction.

[a700hitter]

Jackie Bradley is a centerfielder and a top prospect. Let's hope the Red Sox recognize a new direction.

I don't think we need to rush Ellsbury out of town. He is one of the few guys that we have left with any talent.

[Station 13]

Grandy would lose about 12HR leaving YS for Boston

 

his YS HR overlay to Fenway

 

He still a 30HR guy, and a low BA and nearly 200K.

 

pass.

 

http://hittrackeronline.com/overlay/overlay_1346988994_352055913.jpg

[Station 13]

I don't think we need to rush Ellsbury out of town. He is one of the few guys that we have left with any talent.

 

There's no need to move him yet, first offer him an extension if he performs well (.300/.350/.450 mid next season). If he turn it down by all mean get him in a Nats uniform.

 

I offer 6/100M if he is close to 2011. $100,000,000 what the f*** these players eat for breakfast? Caviar spread on toast?

[jung]

Good job Station 13. Jacko scoffed at me when I chided that the new Yankee Stadium is the "house that Granderson built". Seems to make the point pretty well I think.

[FenwayWest]

I would go up to maybe a 5yr $100M contract... I think those injuries were just bad luck, and to say he's just a speed guy is just incorrect, he's shown he has power too.

 

The Yankees spend big $$ on free agents.. The small market teams can scout talent but can't afford to keep them when they're up for Free agency... I think Boston is in a unique place where they should pay to keep their homegrown talent, and focus on their player dev system.

[SCM33]

I would go up to maybe a 5yr $100M contract... I think those injuries were just bad luck, and to say he's just a speed guy is just incorrect, he's shown he has power too.

 

No way.....

 

What has he proven besides his Brady Anderson year? The ONLY thing he has proven is that you can't rely on him.

[Palodios]

I like Shane. He can be a bit of a hot head, but he plays hard and smart. I am not sure that he is a 1 year sign. I could see the Giants going after him.

 

The guy will probably end the season with an OPS in the .680s-- well below his career numbers. I don't see him turning down a 15-20 million dollar contract to rebuild his value for 2014.

[Orange Juiced]

So if/when Ellsbury becomes a free agent after the 2013 season, how much do the Yankees spend to acquire him?

[mvp 78]

So if/when Ellsbury becomes a free agent after the 2013 season, how much do the Yankees spend to acquire him?

 

Depends upon how many games he loses to injury in 2013 and if he can have a rebound year.

 

I just worry that he's Grady Sizemore 2.0.

[a700hitter]

The guy will probably end the season with an OPS in the .680s-- well below his career numbers. I don't see him turning down a 15-20 million dollar contract to rebuild his value for 2014.

A $15-20 million deal for 1 year? I don't see anyone offering him that. I think he will be happy to get a 3 year Josh Willingham-type deal, which by the way was the best signing of the last off season. The guy is putting up a great season in a pitcher's ballpark.

[jung]

Whatever he turns out to be I very seriously doubt he will ever be the Ells of 2011 nor the Ells of 2012 for that matter. He is most likely something in the middle but chances are that something in the middle is closer to the 2012 version than the 2011 especially since he is slowly but gradually aging on top of everything else.

 

The Sox do have the benefit of at least trying to offer him an extension although I just don't see that as all that meaningful. Boras is the kind of agent that only has interest in the big play and he will gamble that Ells will come back strong enough in 2013 to make that gamble pay off.

 

That gamble may actually not be in Ells best interests the way he is going but Boras will make sure he takes it. The biggest problem for both of them is that Ells cannot seem to stay on the field, takes a long time to come back from injury and the level of his performance drops off substantially in the process. There is every chance that you can sign a 5 year contract with him and only get 2.5 years of player out of the deal. Unless Ells has an outrageous 2013 I really don't think he will draw really big money. I just don't think he is the kind of player that will come back that strong in 2013 or any year after that for that matter.

[mvp 78]

Ellsbury is 28. Age doesn't have anything to do with his drop in performance. He'll still be in the prime of his career for the next 4 years.

[Designated Hater]

Depends upon how many games he loses to injury in 2013 and if he can have a rebound year.

 

I just worry that he's Grady Sizemore 2.0.

 

Bingo on the Grady Sizemore comparison.

 

Ells seems very fragile to me and sure he's CAPABLE of having a great year, but great years are just that. The Red Sox need consistency. Jacoby won't bring that. Ship him out of here this winter in a package deal with Dustin for some major league starting pitching (2nd and 3rd starters are fine) and a prospect or 2.

[Palodios]

A $15-20 million deal for 1 year? I don't see anyone offering him that. I think he will be happy to get a 3 year Josh Willingham-type deal, which by the way was the best signing of the last off season. The guy is putting up a great season in a pitcher's ballpark.

 

Player A's career: .340 OBP, .770 OPS, 25 steals per season, 3 gold gloves.

Player B's career: .330 OBP, .770 OPS, 45 steals per season, 1 gold glove.

 

If Carl Crawford made 140 million, I hesitate to believe that Victorino will want to settle. The Red Sox are probably going to be handing out high annual value one or two year contracts, and Victorino seems like a perfect fit, especially since his current team won't need him in 2013.

[mvp 78]

Steals and gold gloves are useless metrics.

[Palodios]

Steals and gold gloves are useless metrics.

 

Its a shame the Red Sox didn't know that before signing Crawford.