Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[Palodios]

The Rangers, Reds and Detroit all have had very good/great pitching staffs the last couple of years and they play in horrendous ballparks. The ballpark is less important than the ability of the pitcher IMO.

 

Sure, but how many years? I remember not very long ago when Detroit's rotation was one deep, and the Rangers were all bat, and no arm. All three organizations have done very good jobs at developing and trading for very good pitchers lately, I won't argue that.

[a700hitter]

I read that we don't play the Yankees at Fenway until July 19th. The scheduling is getting increasingly more ridiculous each year.

[mvp 78]

I read that we don't play the Yankees at Fenway until July 19th. The scheduling is getting increasingly more ridiculous each year.

 

Get rid of interleague play. Stop the AS Game from deciding home field.

 

If the Sox start too slow, everyhome game against the Yanks could be meaningless. Fantastic.

 

Thanks Bud.

[SeanJohn93]

I believe that it is important to note that the sox did not get themselves into any long term deals like they did with Gonzo and Crawford. With Victorino, Dempster, Lackey, and (hopefully) Napoli all coming off the books in no more than 3 years, it allows them to be tradable assests in years to come that other teams may find attractive in the final year of their contracts. These players will have some value because of their contracts and could get a prospect in return to add to the promising crop of players who are expected to contribute by that time in Bogaerts, Bradley, Brentz, De La Rosa, Webster, Barnes, and possibly Raunando if he ever gets healthy

[a700hitter]

Get rid of interleague play. Stop the AS Game from deciding home field.

 

If the Sox start too slow, everyhome game against the Yanks could be meaningless. Fantastic.

 

Thanks Bud.

Let's home for a fast start helped by the strengthened bullpen. Meaningless games at home against the Yankees turns my stomach.

[Station 13]

I would eliminate the all-star game completely. it's stupid and baseball takes 5-6 days off? 1 for the boring HR derby, another for a glorified exhibition game, and 3 days more. Just do away with it please and just let baseball finished earlier by a week.

[Station 13]

I read that we don't play the Yankees at Fenway until July 19th. The scheduling is getting increasingly more ridiculous each year.

 

Didn't we not play the Yankees last season in NY till July too? Also this interleague thing all-year is really going to affect Ortiz for away games.

[jung]

I hate interleague play especially since the DH has not been resolved between the two leagues. Even with that I hate the whole idea. The model can't be a game with a 16 game regular season (pro football).

 

Having the AS game decide WS home field is idiotic.

[wyo-sox]

I would eliminate the all-star game completely. it's stupid and baseball takes 5-6 days off? 1 for the boring HR derby, another for a glorified exhibition game, and 3 days more. Just do away with it please and just let baseball finished earlier by a week.

 

I like that! I have never been able to muster much interest in the asg.

[Station 13]

Let the interleague record decide homefield, where the AL has won more games for the last 10+ year.The Stros moving to the AL will help out the NL in that regard though.

[jung]

They clearly need the extra days that the all star game takes up. However the league still generate tons of money off the damn thing and the league organizations wait their turn to make the big score in the year they are hosting. Regrettably I don't see it going away which is why I only called for detaching it from WS home field. It is just a pageant for crying out loud. Don't attach something that really matters to it.

[Dojji]

Let the interleague record decide homefield, where the AL has won more games for the last 10+ year.The Stros moving to the AL will help out the NL in that regard though.

 

Next year, sure, but if the Stros ever sort themselves out they're one of the better teams in the league.

[Spitball]

I was expressing an opinion based on conversations with pitchers who I have met. I said that this wasn't a scientific survey, and yes it is based merely on anectdotal first hand information. Your evidence is also anecdotal and none of it seems to be first hand information. Yes, you knew Sain, but how many pitchers told you that Sain straightened out their mechanical flaws. I was not making a blanket attack on the usefulness of MLB pitching coaches contrary to what you may be thinking. Yes, there are good, bad and average pitching coaches just like with everything else. However, it is my opinion that their value lies in areas other than spotting and correcting mechanical flaws, which at the MLB level is very hard to do especially with veterans. I don't buy into the notion of pitching gurus who can turn around pitchers careers. Yes, it happens at times, but not as often as people think IMO. Again, this is my opinion as I have stated over and over. I believe they make suggestions and try to help pitchers tinker all the the time, but rarely do they spot a mechanical flaw that turns a guy around. If there was a pitching coach who could do that, he'd be worth his weight in gold considering the importance of pitching and the Yankees would be collecting them like Free agents. There is no bidding war over pitching coaches.

 

As for Farrell, I do not think he is a very good pitching coach. I didn't see the results when he was with us nor at Toronto. Of recent Sox pitching coaches, I think Wallace was the bet. Again, just my opinion, but I have as much proof of my opinion as you do.

 

Edit: BTW, Norm Sherry was the backup catcher for the Dodgers when he helped out Koufax.

 

Well, I have seen plenty of evidence:

 

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=3&id=3285

 

From Wilber Wood - “He helped me on my mechanics, because if you have good mechanics, especially on a breaking ball or an off speed pitch you’re going to have that movement. He also stressed defense by a pitcher, that you have to be in position to field a ball. You look at a lot of guys today, they aren’t in any position to field anything hit back up the middle because they aren’t in a good position. Johnny stressed the fundamentals of pitching.”

 

And there are a lot more out there, but I don't see the point.

[a700hitter]

Well, I have seen plenty of evidence:

 

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=3&id=3285

 

From Wilber Wood - “He helped me on my mechanics, because if you have good mechanics, especially on a breaking ball or an off speed pitch you’re going to have that movement. He also stressed defense by a pitcher, that you have to be in position to field a ball. You look at a lot of guys today, they aren’t in any position to field anything hit back up the middle because they aren’t in a good position. Johnny stressed the fundamentals of pitching.”

 

And there are a lot more out there, but I don't see the point.

More truth comes out from players about managers, coaches and other players over dinner and drinks as opposed to things said to the media. It's interesting that you picked a knuckleballer like Wilbur Wood to use as an example, when most pitching coaches acknowledge that they don't have a clue how to help a knuckle ball pitcher. You are right there is no point. You have your opinion about the issue and I have mine. I am not saying that they play no role in pitching mechanics. Obviously, they do. We differ on the impact that they have at the major league level in this regard. I don't think there is a definitive answer on it, so I don't know why you keep trying to invalidate my opinion on this. You have you opinion. I am fine with that.

[Bellhorn04]

Well, I have seen plenty of evidence:

 

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=3&id=3285

 

From Wilber Wood - “He helped me on my mechanics, because if you have good mechanics, especially on a breaking ball or an off speed pitch you’re going to have that movement. He also stressed defense by a pitcher, that you have to be in position to field a ball. You look at a lot of guys today, they aren’t in any position to field anything hit back up the middle because they aren’t in a good position. Johnny stressed the fundamentals of pitching.”

 

And there are a lot more out there, but I don't see the point.

 

The value of a pitching coach, like the value of a catcher who is a 'good game-caller', or the manager himself, is difficult to measure so it invites skepticism. But I don't see how anybody can deny that it's possible for someone who is good at their trade to have a positive impact.

 

I took a couple of golf lessons this year for the first time ever. I had always been skeptical about their value. But the instructor immediately noticed that I had the weight on my feet too far back on my heels. Changing this one little thing made a huge improvement for me.

[a700hitter]

The value of a pitching coach, like the value of a catcher who is a 'good game-caller', or the manager himself, is difficult to measure so it invites skepticism. But I don't see how anybody can deny that it's possible for someone who is good at their trade to have a positive impact.

 

I took a couple of golf lessons this year for the first time ever. I had always been skeptical about their value. But the instructor immediately noticed that I had the weight on my feet too far back on my heels. Changing this one little thing made a huge improvement for me.

I wonder what kind of impact that instructor would have on Tiger Woods' game.

 

Edit: I think that is the more accurate analogy.

[Bellhorn04]

I wonder what kind of impact that instructor would have on Tiger Woods' game.

 

Edit: I think that is the more accurate analogy.

 

With golfers I think it's very much an individual thing and I'm guessing it's the same with pitchers. I think drawing comparisons between the two is fair because in both cases we're dealing with repeating mechanical motions.

 

I have no doubt at all that certain golfers like Tiger are very much affected by their instructors. Tiger of course has changed instructors and changed swings several times. Many of these pro golfers are constantly making adjustments to their mechanics.

 

Then there are other golfers like Lee Trevino and Bubba Watson who are totally self-taught and refuse instruction.

 

I am guessing a lot of this also holds true for major league pitchers.

[Lucienbel]

I don't know if you get rid of the All Star Game, but the fact that it decides home field advantage and the fans vote sucks. Either get rid of the fan vote and let it still decide or let it not decide and keep the fan vote. I like watching the All Star Game as it tends to be fun, but putting that much at stake on a game that is just fun is silly.

[a700hitter]

With golfers I think it's very much an individual thing and I'm guessing it's the same with pitchers. I think drawing comparisons between the two is fair because in both cases we're dealing with repeating mechanical motions.

 

I have no doubt at all that certain golfers like Tiger are very much affected by their instructors. Tiger of course has changed instructors and changed swings several times. Many of these pro golfers are constantly making adjustments to their mechanics.

 

Then there are other golfers like Lee Trevino and Bubba Watson who are totally self-taught and refuse instruction.

 

I am guessing a lot of this also holds true for major league pitchers.

Golfers like pitchers are always tinkering and no doubt their coaches are making suggestions, but at that pro-level finding a mechanical flaw that would transform a player's game would be rare. People shouldn't get there hopes up that Farrell is going to watch some video of Lester and turn him back into an All Star pitcher. I am sure that every pitching coach in the organization was studying that video last year. Whatever is wrong, he'll have to figure it out himself. Maybe Farrell can help rebuild his confidence and that is very important, but I am not expecting a magic bullet mechanical fix. Those are fairly rare. The one possible magic bullet fix could be a change of catchers-- the numbers seem to bear that out.

[Rdsxmbnt]

I don't think they need any magic bullet for Lester. He's still a good pitcher, his peripherals look good, he's not injured and his velocity and durability are all there. Pitchers have off years sometimes, look at guys like Beckett and Halladay, pitchers with the traits I described above are generally a good bet to bounce back. In fact he finished the season strong with a 3.76 ERA in his last 80 innings.

[a700hitter]

I don't think they need any magic bullet for Lester. He's still a good pitcher, his peripherals look good, he's not injured and his velocity and durability are all there. Pitchers have off years sometimes, look at guys like Beckett and Halladay, pitchers with the traits I described above are generally a good bet to bounce back. In fact he finished the season strong with a 3.76 ERA in his last 80 innings.

Maybe he has already figured it out.

[Dojji]

A nice thing to hope for. If our D up the middle is better next year than it was last year that can only help. I'm particulraly thinking about shortstop. Stephen Drew oesn't exactly have a high standard set for him by his predecessors. And if Drew could reclaim his pre-injury form, he's a well above average defender.

[Spitball]

I don't think they need any magic bullet for Lester. He's still a good pitcher, his peripherals look good, he's not injured and his velocity and durability are all there. Pitchers have off years sometimes, look at guys like Beckett and Halladay, pitchers with the traits I described above are generally a good bet to bounce back. In fact he finished the season strong with a 3.76 ERA in his last 80 innings.

 

http://nesn.com/2012/10/john-farrell-has-already-identified-jon-lester-daniel-bards-issues-with-hopes-to-bring-them-back-to/

 

"From a pitching standpoint there were some very obvious things with Jon that he and I have already talked about that you saw with his delivery that he kind of drifted into, "Farrell said. "That might have affected his overall consistency.

 

One of the major functions of a pitching coach is to correct mechanical flaws. Hopefully, Nievas and Farrell can correct the delivery problem that developed, perhaps, because the Sox have employed two different pitching coaches in the last two years.

[a700hitter]

I wish I had a dollar for every time a pitching coach thought they had identified a mechanical flaw in a struggling pitcher's delivery, and he continued to struggle. I remember after cutting Allan Embree, the Yankees signed him and they were so excited to get a hard throwing lefty for their pen and Suzynne Waldman announced that Mel Stottlemyre had spotted a very fixable mechanical flaw that would straighten him out. He was horrible that season. I laughed at Stot straightening him out, because Stot never straightened out anyone's mechanics. Embree s*** all over himself for the Yankees.

 

My recollection is that we had one official pitching coach last year and one unofficial pitching coach. Neither of them found Lester's flaw in enough time to salvage Lester's season. They had the video to review. I don't think Farrell is a guru compared to the others. If he was, he should have gotten Ricky Romero on track in Toronto last year.

 

Lester may straighten himself out, but I think Bard is a complete lost cause. I think we will learn eventually that he has an injury.

[a700hitter]

Our biggest opportunity to improve our starting pitching may be to get rid of Salty.

[Rdsxmbnt]

I wish I had a dollar for every time a pitching coach thought they had identified a mechanical flaw in a struggling pitcher's delivery, and he continued to struggle. I remember after cutting Allan Embree, the Yankees signed him and they were so excited to get a hard throwing lefty for their pen and Suzynne Waldman announced that Mel Stottlemyre had spotted a very fixable mechanical flaw that would straighten him out. He was horrible that season. I laughed at Stot straightening him out, because Stot never straightened out anyone's mechanics. Embree s*** all over himself for the Yankees.

 

My recollection is that we had one official pitching coach last year and one unofficial pitching coach. Neither of them found Lester's flaw in enough time to salvage Lester's season. They had the video to review. I don't think Farrell is a guru compared to the others. If he was, he should have gotten Ricky Romero on track in Toronto last year.

 

Lester may straighten himself out, but I think Bard is a complete lost cause. I think we will learn eventually that he has an injury.

 

Bard is a lost cause IF he doesn't regain his velocity. He never had great command but with a 98 mph fastball and high 80's slider you don't need that. With a 92 MPH and low 80's slider you need command and realistically you need a third pitch. If he shows up at camp with the 92mph then I think he's done. We'll see. Agree on Salty too, want him gone or off the regular catching rotation.

[BSN07]

Salty, unifying talksox posters everywhere lol

[a700hitter]

To think that people would argue about him at one time.

[a700hitter]

Bard is a lost cause IF he doesn't regain his velocity. He never had great command but with a 98 mph fastball and high 80's slider you don't need that. With a 92 MPH and low 80's slider you need command and realistically you need a third pitch. If he shows up at camp with the 92mph then I think he's done. We'll see. Agree on Salty too, want him gone or off the regular catching rotation.

The fact that he didn't regain his velocity after 3 months of pitching in short relief and any semblance of command was lost leads me to think that there is something structurally wrong.

[jung]

I just don't know what they were trying to do to bring him back. What I saw of his minor league stints he was unable to find the plate at all. Not sure if he might have gotten so gun shy that he started aiming the ball. It would not make sense for a pitcher that relies on velocity to try to nurse the ball over the plate just to get it over even if he is trying to fight his way back. So I have to think that except for those instances where he just finally was trying to throw any strike anywhere at any velocity, most times he must have been trying to throw at his normal velocity. That sure as heck was not working out. The last few times I saw him in the minors he had absolutely no idea where the ball was going and velocity was still way off.

 

We have been discussing different ways of throwing in some of these threads. Clearly Bard is a "stand tall and fall" hurler. While that style of throwing is easier on the body, once you lose your landing spot and other critical points along the way it can be real difficult to get it all back in place again. Bard looked like he was all over the map last I saw of him.

 

Maybe Tim Wakefield has a Nekro like career waiting for him. Maybe Bard can be the first pupil he teaches the knuckler to. Things might not be able to get much worse for Bard from the last place I saw him.

 

I honestly think that if Bard has a career it will be a second coming, not some appearance that he makes this year. In that regard I think he is just plain done. He may be back but probably with a rebuilt motion and God only knows what else.