Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[Dojji]

If you have to go back to the 50's to find that example, it's not the sign of a strong argument.

 

The Sox play it safe with their rookies. This much is a fact. Whether it's "too long" is a judgment call, and the only way to really tell is in retrospect. A number of the players they "held onto too long" flamed out, yes. Lars Anderson is probably Exhibit A. Now, would those players have flamed out in the majors, to an even more disastrous result, if the team had had to try and win with them? Hard to say, but they couldn't stay consistent in AAA doesn't speak well in their favor.

[Palodios]

I don't even know where to put this, but there was an interesting article in the globe about charities run by professional athletes.

 

http://www.boston.com/business/2013/02/23/nonprofit-game-many-athletes-post-losing-records/6SLCmkOTWXy8pYQPLqcFyI/story.html

 

On A-rod

 

A foundation started by New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez gave only 1 percent of proceeds to charity during its first year of operation in 2006, then stopped submitting mandatory financial reports to the IRS and was stripped of its tax-exempt status.

 

[One Event] helped the A-Rod Family Foundation raise $403,862 in 2006, but little found its way to charity, according to IRS records. The foundation gave $5,000 to Jay-Z’s Shawn Carter Scholarship Fund and $90 to a Little League Baseball club in Miami.

[Palodios]

On Beckett

 

But an examination of the group’s financial records — part of a Globe review of more than 150 Internal Revenue Service filings by 50 nonprofits operated by professional athletes — reveals that just 37 cents of every dollar raised by the Josh Beckett Foundation went toward its mission to “improve the health and well-being of children.” That’s far less than the 65 to 75 cents that nonprofit specialists say is an acceptable minimum.

[a700hitter]

From mazz's column today. This is true and a little pathetic

There are, after all, only three players in Boston's projected starting lineup who can boast both relative youth and legitimate talent: Dustin Pedroia, Will Middlebrooks, and Jacoby Ellsbury.

[jacksonianmarch]

a700, I would actually be slightly please with their direction, though. I believe Bradley and Bogaerts will be above average (or more) regulars in the bigs. Prior administrations would be parading them out in ST and into the season when they werent ready. They have bought their prospects some time.

[SoxSport]

a700, I would actually be slightly please with their direction, though. I believe Bradley and Bogaerts will be above average (or more) regulars in the bigs. Prior administrations would be parading them out in ST and into the season when they werent ready. They have bought their prospects some time.

 

The only reason Middlebrooks got his chance last year was because Youks got hurt.

 

Bradley is blocked by Victorino unless they trade Ellsbury.

 

Bogaerts has a cast of thousands auditioning at SS, and everybody is blocked by Drew this year.

[jung]

While I think the comment from Mazz is essentially true, I am not sure many baseball teams would do much better when discussing a combination of relative youth and legit talent. That combination is tough to come by, especially in baseball. Its a sport that requires a very particular kind of talent that is not just athletic in the sense that we would think about it for a football player.

 

Who do the Yanks have left for example...Granderson, Gardner....?????

 

Not sure how Mazz is considering pitchers if at all in his piece.

[jacksonianmarch]

I wouldnt say blocked at all. The fact that Ellsbury has Boras and is in his walk yr opens up a spot for Bradley, presumably next season. Also, your LFer is Johnny Gomes, signed for 2 yrs, who is best used as the RH portion of a platoon. Bradley isnt blocked at all by Victorino, as a matter of fact, if Bradley pushed his way onto the club, he'd be your starting LFers vs righties this yr.

 

Middlebrooks was going to get significant time last yr regardless. He'd either have played 1B after AdGon got dealt or for Youks had he been dealt away in a more amicable fashion.

 

Bogaerts has nobody in front of him. Drew gives you a solid professional on a 1 yr deal. If Bogaerts proves ready, they'd trade, bench or release Drew when the time comes.

 

Remember, I think the sox are probably going to be in contention into early July, then lose ground enough to be out of it. That means, that the prospect game could start come the ASB. But they have to resist the temptation to bring up kids who arent ready.

[jacksonianmarch]

While I think the comment from Mazz is essentially true, I am not sure many baseball teams would do much better when discussing a combination of relative youth and legit talent. That combination is tough to come by, especially in baseball. Its a sport that requires a very particular kind of talent that is not just athletic in the sense that we would think about it for a football player.

 

Who do the Yanks have left for example...Granderson, Gardner....?????

 

Not sure how Mazz is considering pitchers if at all in his piece.

 

I wouldnt put Granderson in the young category, and now that Cano is 30, he isnt young either. The Yankees have the catcher's position as the only one I'd fully expect to be manned by a sub 30 yr old player.

[Station 13]

The only reason Middlebrooks got his chance last year was because Youks got hurt.

 

Or was because he hit 9HR (.333 .380 .677 1.057 ) in 93AB?

[rhet]

Bogaerts has nobody in front of him. Drew gives you a solid professional on a 1 yr deal. If Bogaerts proves ready, they'd trade, bench or release Drew when the time comes.

 

And eat a $9.5 million salary? Nope. Drew is definitely the man this season.

[Palodios]

And eat a $9.5 million salary? Nope. Drew is definitely the man this season.

 

Good shortstops are tough to come by. He turns into a valuable trade chip midseason.

[rjortiz]

From mazz's column today. This is true and a little pathetic

 

It's even more pathetic when you consider that Ellsbury is a free agent after this year.

[Bellhorn04]

Mazz's statement seems pretty pointless to me, not that it's anything new for him.

 

In 2004 we had hardly anybody who was both young and talented.

[a700hitter]

Mazz's statement seems pretty pointless to me, not that it's anything new for him.

 

In 2004 we had hardly anybody who was both young and talented.

2004 had a lot of talent, maybe not young, but they weren't too old. Most had some prime years left. This team has little talent.

[rorschach]

Hey y'all converted from Met's fan to RedSoxNation in 86', but this will be the first year I get to watch all the Red Sox games, as I live in Illinois, and this is my first season purchasing MLB.TV! Just wanted to say hey y'all, and I really look forward to a amazing year of Red Sox baseball!! :ortiz:

[rorschach]

Lackey has looked really good so far from what I've seen of him.

[Palodios]

2004 had a lot of talent, maybe not young, but they weren't too old. Most had some prime years left. This team has little talent.

 

The crazy thing about the 2004 team is that we always seem to forget that it was a team made of mortals. The 2013 rotation certainly has the potential to beat out the 2004 one:

 

Schilling -- 3.20 ERA.

Pedro -- 3.90 ERA.

Arroyo 4.02

Wakefield -- 4.87

Lowe 5.42 ERA

[rjortiz]

The crazy thing about the 2004 team is that we always seem to forget that it was a team made of mortals. The 2013 rotation certainly has the potential to beat out the 2004 one:

 

Schilling -- 3.20 ERA.

Pedro -- 3.90 ERA.

Arroyo 4.02

Wakefield -- 4.87

Lowe 5.42 ERA

 

You have to adjust for the difficulty of the two years. Wakefield was average in 2004 with those numbers.

[a700hitter]

The crazy thing about the 2004 team is that we always seem to forget that it was a team made of mortals. The 2013 rotation certainly has the potential to beat out the 2004 one:

 

Schilling -- 3.20 ERA.

Pedro -- 3.90 ERA.

Arroyo 4.02

Wakefield -- 4.87

Lowe 5.42 ERA

The biggest plus for the 2004 staff is that they didn't miss any starts and after the trading deadline they went on a long run of 6+ inning starts that kept the bullpen fresh for the post season. The performance of the pen in that post season was remarkable. They were very mortal too, but they were well rested and had more left in the tank than the Yankee pen. Also, the 2004 staff did have two aces that were great stoppers after a few losses.

[jung]

Oh yea, a rotation with Schilling and Pedro at the top sounds just ....mortal to me. You can't be serious. If you want to make the case that Starting Pitching covers for a lotta' deficits elsewhere....fine. However calling that team a team of mortals without recognizing that we had two Starting PItching Stars at the top of what was really a pretty competent rotation misses the essence of what made that a tough team to beat.

 

Its easy to be goofy and fun loving and be a team of idiots when you have two guys at the top of the rotation kicking butts and takin' names.

 

Funny, we don't recognize how valuable starting pitching is to us when we have it and we don't recognize how costly it is to us when we don't.

[Palodios]

Oh yea, a rotation with Schilling and Pedro at the top sounds just ....mortal to me. You can't be serious. If you want to make the case that Starting Pitching covers for a lotta' deficits elsewhere....fine.

 

Did you look at the stats? Those guys were way past their primes. 2004 was arguably Pedro's worst full season of his career. Schilling had a good season, but was it any different than Lester's 2008, 2009, 2010, or 2011?

[a700hitter]

Did you look at the stats? Those guys were way past their primes. 2004 was arguably Pedro's worst full season of his career. Schilling had a good season, but was it any different than Lester's 2008, 2009, 2010, or 2011?

Stats that were smack in the middle of the steroid era.

[Palodios]

Stats that were smack in the middle of the steroid era.

 

Pedro pitched his entire career smack in the middle of the steroid era, and his worst full season of his career came during the 2004 season.

[a700hitter]

Pedro pitched his entire career smack in the middle of the steroid era, and his worst full season of his career came during the 2004 season.

Except when he was injured, Pedro was never a mere mortal on the mound.

[rjortiz]

Did you look at the stats? Those guys were way past their primes. 2004 was arguably Pedro's worst full season of his career. Schilling had a good season, but was it any different than Lester's 2008, 2009, 2010, or 2011?

 

Adjusted for league difficulty, all of Lester's seasons are worse than Schilling's.

[a700hitter]

Pal, any rotation with Schilling and Pedro is in pretty good shape. Pedro is a sure fire Hall of Famer and Schilling has a very good chance too. Your arguments based on the 1 year stats is exactly why Vin Scully says that stats should be used the way a drunk uses a lamppost-- for support not for illumination.

[Bellhorn04]

Palodios, you'd be better off using the 2007 rotation as an example of mortals. Dice-K and Wake were our 2 and 3 starters in terms of innings, and they had ERA's of 4.40 and 4.76.

[Dojji]

Adjusted for league difficulty, all of Lester's seasons are worse than Schilling's.

 

Sorry Pal, he's right. Schill had a 148 ERA+ that year, Lester's never really been all that close to that. Schilling was THE man that year. No one else came close.

 

That said, Pedro was definitely mortal in 04. In fact he was barely above average. Every Lester season from 08-10 was better than Pedro's 04 by ERA+. And Lester's 2011 campaign, his worst up to that point, was exactly equal to it.

 

It's a good thing that all we needed Pedro to be was a half decent #2 that year. Because that year, that's ALL he was.

[Palodios]

Pal, any rotation with Schilling and Pedro is in pretty good shape. Pedro is a sure fire Hall of Famer and Schilling has a very good chance too. Your arguments based on the 1 year stats is exactly why Vin Scully says that stats should be used the way a drunk uses a lamppost-- for support not for illumination.

 

Lester and Buchholz do not hold a candle to Pedro and Schilling, but I do believe they can compete with their 2004 stats. I don't think that is completely unreasonable.