Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[jung]

There's a recipe for success for ya'...spot starting guys from the pen....and with that rotation, you can just about bank on those guys being out there spot starting at some point in 2013.

 

Not sure they can really have hoped for much better for 2013. It just does not sound like a plan that is even a roll of the dice at competing though.

[rjortiz]

Any interest in DLowe for depth?

 

Maybe on a minor league deal.

[SeanJohn93]

I dont want Lowe back in a sox uniform. Also, de la rosa is projected as a long reliever/emergency starter type pitcher similar to how alfredo aceves was before being forced into the closer spot last year due to bailey's injury.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I dont want Lowe back in a sox uniform. Also, de la rosa is projected as a long reliever/emergency starter type pitcher similar to how alfredo aceves was before being forced into the closer spot last year due to bailey's injury.

 

DLR is going to be pumping up his innings in AAA and then will be the first up as a spot starter before he claims a slot in 2014.

 

He's much more than an emergency starter

[a700hitter]

Three years ago? Definitely. Now? NWIH. We have "depth," we're 9 deep if you count Morales and de la Rosa breaks camp in the Pawtucket rotation. We need high end pitchers or nothing.

 

Right now our rotation is set. Lester, Buchholz, Dempster, Lackey, Doubront. Some of you might not like Lackey, and the rest of us flat out hate him, but he breaks camp in the rotation, no way he doesn't.

 

Depth is Morales, Aceves, de la Rosa, plus possibly Miller, Barnes and Webster.

 

Miller, Aceves and Morales can probably each "swing" into a starting role though there's a distinct heirarchy in terms of which guy I'd prefer first, (Morales first, followed by Aceves and then, in desperate situations, Miller). I have to think we're loading up so much in bullpen arms because they're going to try to pull guys from the pen to spot start if they have injury trouble this year so this "depth" isn't as illusionary as it would have been under Tito..

DLowe may not be the answer. I would not argue that he is the answer, but our rotation is thin and not very strong and there is no depth.

[Dojji]

There's never going to be depth by your definition of the term.

[a700hitter]

There's never going to be depth by your definition of the term.

Of the guys you mentioned, only morales could be counted on to be depth in 2013. The others will be either purely short relievers or minor league starters with very little chance of being anything other than emergency starters.

[User Name]

Morales, De La Ross and Acevedo will almost certainly be stretched out to start if necessary to begin the season

[Dojji]

Already been announced in Morales' case.

 

Would not shock me to see Miller take some starts too. They might not decide to mess with a good thing, but all the upside that ever existed with this guy is still there

[SCM33]

Already been announced in Morales' case.

 

Would not shock me to see Miller take some starts too. They might not decide to mess with a good thing, but all the upside that ever existed with this guy is still there

 

Miller will not be stretched out.

 

Franklin Morales will be in the rotation.

 

Lester

Buchholz

Dempster

Morales

Lackey

 

I still believe Doubront will be traded before the start of the season. I also still believe Salty, Melancon and possibly Ellsbury will be traded. IMO, Victorino was signed to play CF.

[BSN07]

I doubt very much Doubront gets traded. It would have to be part of a package for a front line SP and those aren't available at the moment in most cases.

 

It's more likely Doubront is a big part of the plans for the 2013 rotation in Boston.

[User Name]

I doubt very much Doubront gets traded. It would have to be part of a package for a front line SP and those aren't available at the moment in most cases.

 

It's more likely Doubront is a big part of the plans for the 2013 rotation in Boston.

 

In which case Morales would be relegated to bullpen duty anyway. As much as scm likes Morales in the rotation, it ain't happening.

[Palodios]

In which case Morales would be relegated to bullpen duty anyway. As much as scm likes Morales in the rotation, it ain't happening.

 

I'm not sure about that. They already have two solid lefties in Breslow and Miller. Uehara, Bailey, Hanrahan, Tazawa, Aceves are probably locks in the bullpen already.

 

So there is one spot in the bullpen between Bard, Morales, Melancon, Wilson, Mortensen and the rest. It seems like there is plenty of flexibility to stretch out either Aceves or Morales out as starters, and Morales seems to have been far more effective in that role in SSS last year. With all the question marks in the rotation, he'd probably be starting by May.

[User Name]

I'm not sure about that. They already have two solid lefties in Breslow and Miller. Uehara, Bailey, Hanrahan, Tazawa, Aceves are probably locks in the bullpen already.

 

So there is one spot in the bullpen between Bard, Morales, Melancon, Wilson, Mortensen and the rest. It seems like there is plenty of flexibility to stretch out either Aceves or Morales out as starters, and Morales seems to have been far more effective in that role in SSS last year. With all the question marks in the rotation, he'd probably be starting by May.

 

The Red Sox are very high on prince Felix. Unless there's an injury don't count on it.

[Palodios]

The Red Sox are very high on prince Felix. Unless there's an injury don't count on it.

 

Sounds like we're arguing different points. Nevermind

[Dojji]

The Red Sox are very high on prince Felix. Unless there's an injury don't count on it.

 

No one's saying Morales breaks camp in the rotation. But they're going to be trying to keep Morales stretched out and first time someone goes down, he's going to be the go to guy.

[Dojji]

Miller will not be stretched out.

 

Franklin Morales will be in the rotation.

 

Lester

Buchholz

Dempster

Morales

Lackey

 

I still believe Doubront will be traded before the start of the season. I also still believe Salty, Melancon and possibly Ellsbury will be traded. IMO, Victorino was signed to play CF.

 

OK so I'm wrong.

 

Morales gives us versatility and flexibility when dealing with injuries and crap-that-happens. It's a resource the Sox aren't going to squander by stuffing him into the bullpen and leaving him there. On the other hand. Lackey and Doubront are both probably going to be in our rotation along with the obvious 3 (Lester, Buchholz, Dempster).

 

Morales is probably going to break camp as the long man in a swing role to maximize our options.

 

That said, I freaking love the idea of leaving Morales and Aceves both in a long role all year. The upside is freakishly good if you combine Aceves' durability and flexibility in a MR role, with another multi inning option in the body of a power lefty. Combine that with the leverage relievers we have if everyone's healthy and the starters may not have a lot of work to do this year.

[Lucienbel]

OK so I'm wrong.

 

Morales gives us versatility and flexibility when dealing with injuries and crap-that-happens. It's a resource the Sox aren't going to squander by stuffing him into the bullpen and leaving him there. On the other hand. Lackey and Doubront are both probably going to be in our rotation along with the obvious 3 (Lester, Buchholz, Dempster).

 

Morales is probably going to break camp as the long man in a swing role to maximize our options.

 

That said, I freaking love the idea of leaving Morales and Aceves both in a long role all year. The upside is freakishly good if you combine Aceves' durability and flexibility in a MR role, with another multi inning option in the body of a power lefty. Combine that with the leverage relievers we have if everyone's healthy and the starters may not have a lot of work to do this year.

 

Certainly agree. This bullpen is starting to shape out very nice. At the very least they should be fun to watch. Still, even with the starters having people to fall back on in the pen I think we could use more starting depth.

[seabeachfred]

I doubt very much Doubront gets traded. It would have to be part of a package for a front line SP and those aren't available at the moment in most cases.

 

It's more likely Doubront is a big part of the plans for the 2013 rotation in Boston.

 

I think you, SCM, me and the whole gang should keep this in mind. Doubrant has pitched very well against the Yankees and that alone would necessitate keeping him, and also keep in mind that lefties do pretty well in the AL East facing all those LH hitters. Morales sickens me for the reason that both times he faced the Yankees he came up with an apple in his throat and got his ass reamed. I don't want him in the rotation and especially don't want him pitching against the Yankees any more than I want to see Bailey in there against them in a closing situation where in his one opportunity against them in such a role turned victory into defeat. Screw them both.

[BSN07]

What's Lackey's timeline for return? Is he going to be ready for the beginning of the season? Or will he miss some time? Morales could break camp in the rotation if Lackey isn't ready.

 

They might not be done with the rotation yet. With Hanrahan on the team they could move Iggy and Bailey to Detroit for Porcello. I'd feel pretty good about a rotation of Lester, Bucc, Dempster, Doubront and Porcello.

 

I'm betting if Lackey shows he's healthy in ST they could move him to a team that has some injuries in their rotation coming out of ST.

[redsoxfan3]

I think you, SCM, me and the whole gang should keep this in mind. Doubrant has pitched very well against the Yankees and that alone would necessitate keeping him, and also keep in mind that lefties do pretty well in the AL East facing all those LH hitters. Morales sickens me for the reason that both times he faced the Yankees he came up with an apple in his throat and got his ass reamed. I don't want him in the rotation and especially don't want him pitching against the Yankees any more than I want to see Bailey in there against them in a closing situation where in his one opportunity against them in such a role turned victory into defeat. Screw them both.

 

I don't really want Morales in the rotation, but I am all for having him as a swing man/depth option. He proved that he is capable of starting last year. I am not saying that I want him as a full-time starter or that he would be a consistent starter, but if someone gets hurt, at least we have a better depth option than Zach Stewart or Aaron Cook. I am still very interested in seeing if they are going to try to stretch out Aceves this Spring to give him a shot at a starting role. If we do not get another starter, then I would not mind having Morales, Doubront, Lackey, and Aceves all fighting for the 4th and 5th spots. Doubront and Lackey are the favorites to win the positions, but having Aceves and Morales ready to start if needed would only help this team out. We do not need Aceves as a late-inning reliever because of our current bullpen. We could use him in a position similar to 2011. It would not hurt one bit to increase the competition in the rotation and have some flexibility. Aceves and Morales could both be used as depth options for the rotation and as LR's or MR's in the pen. Aceves' attitude is a big concern, but I do not think it will be as a big of a problem with Farrell leading the pack. Of course, all of this is irrelevant if Lester, Dempster, and Buchholz cannot live up to expectations. We are going to be successful based on their performance, in my opinion.

 

Also, has anyone heard anything about De La Rosa lately? I am assuming he is going to be in camp. I doubt he would make the rotation, but it would be a nice surprise if he takes the next step and can compete for the rotation and surprise some people. Of course, I might be getting way ahead of myself.

[a700hitter]

I don't really want Morales in the rotation, but I am all for having him as a swing man/depth option. He proved that he is capable of starting last year. I am not saying that I want him as a full-time starter or that he would be a consistent starter, but if someone gets hurt, at least we have a better depth option than Zach Stewart or Aaron Cook. I am still very interested in seeing if they are going to try to stretch out Aceves this Spring to give him a shot at a starting role. If we do not get another starter, then I would not mind having Morales, Doubront, Lackey, and Aceves all fighting for the 4th and 5th spots. Doubront and Lackey are the favorites to win the positions, but having Aceves and Morales ready to start if needed would only help this team out. We do not need Aceves as a late-inning reliever because of our current bullpen. We could use him in a position similar to 2011. It would not hurt one bit to increase the competition in the rotation and have some flexibility. Aceves and Morales could both be used as depth options for the rotation and as LR's or MR's in the pen. Aceves' attitude is a big concern, but I do not think it will be as a big of a problem with Farrell leading the pack. Of course, all of this is irrelevant if Lester, Dempster, and Buchholz cannot live up to expectations. We are going to be successful based on their performance, in my opinion.

 

Also, has anyone heard anything about De La Rosa lately? I am assuming he is going to be in camp. I doubt he would make the rotation, but it would be a nice surprise if he takes the next step and can compete for the rotation and surprise some people. Of course, I might be getting way ahead of myself.

agreed, Morales would be a good depth option.

[seabeachfred]

I don't really want Morales in the rotation, but I am all for having him as a swing man/depth option. He proved that he is capable of starting last year. I am not saying that I want him as a full-time starter or that he would be a consistent starter, but if someone gets hurt, at least we have a better depth option than Zach Stewart or Aaron Cook. I am still very interested in seeing if they are going to try to stretch out Aceves this Spring to give him a shot at a starting role. If we do not get another starter, then I would not mind having Morales, Doubront, Lackey, and Aceves all fighting for the 4th and 5th spots. Doubront and Lackey are the favorites to win the positions, but having Aceves and Morales ready to start if needed would only help this team out. We do not need Aceves as a late-inning reliever because of our current bullpen. We could use him in a position similar to 2011. It would not hurt one bit to increase the competition in the rotation and have some flexibility. Aceves and Morales could both be used as depth options for the rotation and as LR's or MR's in the pen. Aceves' attitude is a big concern, but I do not think it will be as a big of a problem with Farrell leading the pack. Of course, all of this is irrelevant if Lester, Dempster, and Buchholz cannot live up to expectations. We are going to be successful based on their performance, in my opinion.

 

Also, has anyone heard anything about De La Rosa lately? I am assuming he is going to be in camp. I doubt he would make the rotation, but it would be a nice surprise if he takes the next step and can compete for the rotation and surprise some people. Of course, I might be getting way ahead of myself.

 

RS3, what I don't want to see and fear a little is that the front office will pull another boner and send a better reliever down to the farm "for more damn seasoning" because they have options rather than just putting the best relievers on the roster regardless of options. The first time Aceves starts with his antics he needs to be sat on or gone. Bard I think is done. You are right about Lester, Buchholz and Dempster, however. They must come through and that goes for Lackey and Doubrant too. We need to convert a potential problem into a strength.

[redsoxfan3]

RS3, what I don't want to see and fear a little is that the front office will pull another boner and send a better reliever down to the farm "for more damn seasoning" because they have options rather than just putting the best relievers on the roster regardless of options. The first time Aceves starts with his antics he needs to be sat on or gone. Bard I think is done. You are right about Lester, Buchholz and Dempster, however. They must come through and that goes for Lackey and Doubrant too. We need to convert a potential problem into a strength.

 

I agree with you. The Bard experiment was either going to be a true success or a complete failure. It turned out as a complete failure. It threw him off to the point that he cannot even pitch effectively enough to be a solid reliever like he was prior to 2012. I want to hold out hope for Bard and have read where some believe he can turn things around, but I do not have much hope. The positive is that we now have Hanrahan, Bailey, Tazawa, and Uehara as the late-inning relievers, so I do not think that having Bard as a solid late inning reliever matters a whole lot. Although, if he can regain form, this bullpen will be that much better. Aceves is another huge concern.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think Bard is going to be dealt in one of those deadline deals to shed a 40 man roster space and find himself in obscurity. He'll be the future closer of the Houston Astros, LOL

[Plumpamania]

Morales > Dubront. I don't want to hear about flexability b/c Morales will just be bailing out Dubront.

[jacksonianmarch]

Right now, you may be right. But it isnt like Morales hasnt gotten his shot. Morales was good enough to start in the playoffs for a Rockies team that went to the World Series. The guy just had a mental meltdown and lost his command. Sometimes you need to just leave well enough alone. Morales has become a reliable left handed reliever. Messing with a guy who has fallen apart in the rotation in the past is a habit of sox GMs and fans alike and it almost always ends in disaster

[Rdsxmbnt]

Right now, you may be right. But it isnt like Morales hasnt gotten his shot. Morales was good enough to start in the playoffs for a Rockies team that went to the World Series. The guy just had a mental meltdown and lost his command. Sometimes you need to just leave well enough alone. Morales has become a reliable left handed reliever. Messing with a guy who has fallen apart in the rotation in the past is a habit of sox GMs and fans alike and it almost always ends in disaster

 

When else has this happened? Pretty sure you're just talking about Bard. Morales looked pretty good in his 9 starts, 45.2 IP, 39 hits, 18 BB, 47 K, 4.14 ERA. It's not like he currently has a major role in the pen either. Definitely a prime candidate to try the switch, especially when he has three good pitches and maintains velocity into games.

 

There have been some big successes recently around the majors also, CJ Wilson certainly to comes to mind.

[jacksonianmarch]

When else has this happened? Pretty sure you're just talking about Bard. Morales looked pretty good in his 9 starts, 45.2 IP, 39 hits, 18 BB, 47 K, 4.14 ERA. It's not like he currently has a major role in the pen either. Definitely a prime candidate to try the switch, especially when he has three good pitches and maintains velocity into games.

 

There have been some big successes recently around the majors also, CJ Wilson certainly to comes to mind.

 

CJ came up as a reliever. Morales came up as a starter, had some transient success then fell apart. He's found his niche in the pen.

[User Name]

CJ came up as a reliever. Morales came up as a starter, had some transient success then fell apart. He's found his niche in the pen.

 

No he didn't. Wilson came up as a starter, got rocked, hurt his elbow and then got converted. He even got six starts at the major league level in 05 amidst all this