Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[jung]

Well lets see....Iggy turns 23 on January 9th. After the 2013 campaign he will be 24. When does he turn from a hot young prospect to a kid that disappoints and never made it at least not for this team.

 

I simply think that Iggy needs at this point to pull his head above water against ML pitching. He started doing it the end of last season going from not even able to stand in against ML pitching hitting weak grounders to second base at best to actually beginning to get his nose above the water a bit.

 

I would put him at SS in 2013 and leave him there. He either drowns or swims. There is no time left with one of the B's already barking up his *******. And my earlier point remains a whole field full of Drews and Napolis and Swishers and Gomes will not save this team from rising past its maximum potential...mediocrity. I might feel better about their chances with a team like that if the rest of the league would just stand still for them but that is not the case. Jeez the Royals think they are going to kick our ass and they are probably right!

[onlybereaved]

Yeah jung I hear what you're saying with respect to Iggy...

 

It almost seems that unless you shine brightly and play better than expected when you're brought up, you're sent back down pretty quickly. The good news is, if you truly make the most of your opportunity (ie: Will Middlebrooks), you can earn a spot.

 

Same with Pedro Ciriaco, guy came up and just played awesome. Iggy comes up and can't seem to do play well. Lavarnway played awesome the year before last when we brought him up, but last year couldn't do much of anything.

 

No doubt your point is valid, though. These guys would most likely get good, but just can't seem to do so right away and need more time/trust etc

 

Word

[DocHolliday]

In 2011, Iggy hit .554 in AAA. In 2012, Iggy hit .624 in AAA. He's also still very very young-- At 22, he still has plenty of time to develop. I'm not expecting wonders here, but a .650 OPS from Iglesias doesn't seem completely unreasonable.

 

If he can put up a .650 OPS and play solid defense, that would be a large boost- particularly to ground ball pitchers on the staff like Buchholz and Dempster.

[Lucienbel]

If he can put up a .650 OPS and play solid defense, that would be a large boost- particularly to ground ball pitchers on the staff like Buchholz and Dempster.

 

Certainly. He's interesting. I feel a large part of his development has been the roles he's been thrust into thus far....though he really hasn't shown any promise in his bat, I can't imagine he'll be as bad as last year. Coming up in this new environment might relax him a bit more too. No doubt his defense is a plus. At the end of the day, I'd still like to see them acquire a shortstop, but if they don't we could be doing worse.

[DocHolliday]

Certainly. He's interesting. I feel a large part of his development has been the roles he's been thrust into thus far....though he really hasn't shown any promise in his bat, I can't imagine he'll be as bad as last year. Coming up in this new environment might relax him a bit more too. No doubt his defense is a plus. At the end of the day, I'd still like to see them acquire a shortstop, but if they don't we could be doing worse.

 

I could see them signing Stephen Drew on an Adrian Beltre 1 year pillow contract to add to their "deep depth" at SS. They need a bit more LH balance in their lineup and could trade Drew at the deadline if they are out of it. This would allow Iglesias to start the year at Pawtucket and get some more PA and fine tune his offensive approach.

 

Also opens up the possibility of trading some of their depth at C, bullpen, and SS additional for rotation depth (where they have the most health and performance risk).

[jung]

I suspect the guys that want a Drew brought here still hold out hope that the Sox can make something of 2013. Drew or no Drew they are not getting to the post season. They are right now not a better team than the team they started 2012 with and that was a failed team BEFORE the trade.

 

Whether they finish 3rd in the AL East or last makes no dif. They both will represent failed seasons. However if they don't make the post season and do not make progress with the crop of guys from Pawtucket, that will be the cruelest waste of a season.

 

If I had to guess today, I would guess this Sox team would be doing well to finish 3rd in the AL East and am more inclined to think it will finish 4th.

[onlybereaved]

I suspect the guys that want a Drew brought here still hold out hope that the Sox can make something of 2013. Drew or no Drew they are not getting to the post season. They are right now not a better team than the team they started 2012 with and that was a failed team BEFORE the trade.

 

Whether they finish 3rd in the AL East or last makes no dif. They both will represent failed seasons. However if they don't make the post season and do not make progress with the crop of guys from Pawtucket, that will be the cruelest waste of a season.

 

If I had to guess today, I would guess this Sox team would be doing well to finish 3rd in the AL East and am more inclined to think it will finish 4th.

 

Although I hear what you're saying for the most part and tend to agree that the odds are we do in fact finish 3rd of 4th in the AL-E...You honestly never know what the chemistry of the team will be this year vs 2012 season. I don't think it's fair to compare this year's team with 2012 team because we are almost guaranteed better chemistry with the moves we have made to get rid of a horrible manager, and some bad apples who were polluting the overall team environment etc.

 

All I am saying is that the 2012 team had so many problems off-field that I believe have been addressed/removed, that we should be better based on that alone. If the players on the new roster end up having awesome chemistry and playing well, who is to say we couldn't compete in an anything goes/wide open AL-East

[jung]

Fine.... chemistry and heart and all of that are great and I more than anybody here loath these teams full of overpaid idiots waiting for their limos to take them back to the Ritz after every game. However the great leveler between the teams that on paper look like they have the goods and the teams that don't is pitching. We once again are going to end up with to many question marks in the rotation, to many guys that will have to perform to absolute peak of the expectations that we might have for them if they are going to succeed and that is just to much to ask especially for a team that plays 81 games in that band box down on Yawkey way and treats overall team defense like it was some sort of disease.

 

This was just not a good year to try to rebuild a rotation unless you were going to gamble on some 1 year deals with some guys. Some of that has gone by the boards and if looks are any indication it looks like the Sox have no interest in going down that road and will prefer to wait till the end to make their next pitching move, when the dregs are whats left.

 

Some of us said the same thing last year's rotation and no matter who was swinging the bats that inevitably is what did in the 2012 campaign. We still had some people chaffing at the notion that the game starts with pitching even while watching the rotation sink the 2012 campaign.

 

Dempster will not be enough....not nearly enough.

[wyo-sox]

Heyman reports:

 

The Red Sox have an agreement with shortstop Stephen Drew on a one-year deal, league sources told CBSSports.com.

The Drew signing will allow the Red Sox one more year to develop slick-fielding youngster Jose Iglesias. Drew's deal is pending a physical.

The value of the agreement isn't known at this time.

The Red Sox this winter have shown a willingness to pay high salaries in their free-agent deals so long as the length is reasonable. The one-year deal fits since Boston is well-stocked at the minor-league level with top prospect Xander Bogaerts as well as Iglesias.

The Red Sox previously agreed to free-agent deals this winter with Shane Victorino, Ryan Dempster, David Ross and Mike Napoli, though they are still working through some issues before finalizing Napoli's deal.

[BSN07]

One year deal is great. I like this move. They can let Iggy develop more or dangle him in a package for a SP.

 

If Bogaerts has a bg season he could get bumped up early for a 2014 debut.

[The Celtbot]

Drew will get $9.5 million.

[BSN07]

This team s maybe one SP and a couple bounce backs from being a contender in the East. Of course they are a couple of face plants from turning into a grease fire again too The team is going to be interesting to start the season out.

[example1]

This team s maybe one SP and a couple bounce backs from being a contender in the East. Of course they are a couple of face plants from turning into a grease fire again too The team is going to be interesting to start the season out.

 

This sums it up pretty well. The team is not without hope, but they could also completely flop if there are considerable injuries or Lester/Buchholz suck. They also need to get Napoli or LaRoche done before they get neither.

[jung]

Buch and Lester don't have to suck for this team as currently constructed to be in pretty rough shape. The problem is that they have to excel for this team to go anywhere. They have no margin for error in the rotation as currently constructed. Every starter they have will have to pitch to the peak of their potential for this team to succeed. Those two guys did not exactly suck last year and the team went nowhere with the bullpen utterly spent by season end again.

[MANNYHOF24]

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Ortiz

Napoli

WMB

Victorino

Gomes/Kalish

Lavs/Salty/Ross

Drew

 

Not too bad... I really think we ought to push for Swisher or Ross, and package Salty, Kalish, Iggy and more for a quality arm. I really hope that's the plan.

[a700hitter]

If anyone thinks Iglesias is going to hit anywhere above the Mendoza line, I have some great beachfront property for sale in Kansas. Ain't gonna happen, and comparing him to what Pedroia did in his third of a season back in '06 is one giant canard. First of all Pedey came to the Red Sox after hitting 305 at Pawtucket after a slow start due to rehab from injury and he had hit in the minors consistently. Iggy has shown nothing of the sort anywhere to speak of. Besides, I don't like the idea of Salty back at catcher. Good God, do the powers-that-be need to be hit with hammer blows to the noggin to get it through their heads that the pitchers' ERA jumps over a run whenever he catches; plus he can't throw worth s***, has a piss poor arm and except for hitting some homers has a miserable OBA. Give Lavarnway a full shot and this time let him bat plenty in ST to groove his swing.

 

How about Steven Drew at short for a season or two? At least we'd have a bat of some kind there.

Good call on Drew. I guess the FO agrees with you on Iglesias.

[a700hitter]

just left that Patriots game. A ridiculous game in weather that isn't fit for polar bears.

 

The next guy that says Iglesias can't hit has to sit in the end zone seats the 2nd half of the Patriots game--without an umbrella.

I guess Luchinno and Cherington will be in your seats for the next Pats home game. LOL! It looks like they have little confidence in Iglesias' offensive ability.

[jung]

Well now like it or not they have made their decision on Iggy. He is officially trade bait. They had this year to give him and they took that away. So with one of the B's flying up his butt hole, they have no choice but to trade him now in some package or another.

 

The Sox will likely do that without regret as Iggy was never going to be a classic Red Sox SS. Not that the classic Red Sox SS is all that much to write home about but he is not Iggy.

[seabeachfred]

Well now like it or not they have made their decision on Iggy. He is officially trade bait. They had this year to give him and they took that away. So with one of the B's flying up his butt hole, they have no choice but to trade him now in some package or another.

 

The Sox will likely do that without regret as Iggy was never going to be a classic Red Sox SS. Not that the classic Red Sox SS is all that much to write home about but he is not Iggy.

 

Any scout will tell you that it is hard to project whether a good minor league hitter will hit in the Big Leagues where pitchers put it where they want and can throw a good off speed pitch in a 2-0 and 3-1 count instead of getting a fat fastball in those counts down on the farm. I preface what I want to say by that because this is just MY opinion as one who coached and did some scouting for friends in my salad days. To me Iglesias doesn't look the type to ever develop into a hitter. He has a slow bat, is tentative on pitches, has poor plate control and gets late jumps on pitches. He could develop but from watching him on the tube he seems like a long drawn out project.

 

Drew gives us a year's grace with someone who can hit from the left side since we now seem too righthanded and can pave the way for Boegarts to take over in 2014 hopefully. I think the Red Sox came to that same conclusion---that Jose simply did not have the ability to consistently hit a baseball.

[SoxSport]

Well now like it or not they have made their decision on Iggy. He is officially trade bait. They had this year to give him and they took that away. So with one of the B's flying up his butt hole, they have no choice but to trade him now in some package or another.

 

The Sox will likely do that without regret as Iggy was never going to be a classic Red Sox SS. Not that the classic Red Sox SS is all that much to write home about but he is not Iggy.

 

There are a number of good field no hit SSs on good teams in the majors. The trouble with the Red Sox is they prefer the good hit, no field type. That's one of the reasons why they suck.

[SoxSport]

Drew gives us a year's grace with someone who can hit from the left side since we now seem too righthanded and can pave the way for Boegarts to take over in 2014 hopefully. I think the Red Sox came to that same conclusion---that Jose simply did not have the ability to consistently hit a baseball.

 

That's not what his manager, Arnie Beyeler, said. The kid is only 22, and he has yet to get a fair chance at becoming a decent hitter. The discussion about his hitting has been way overdone in the media. As I've said, it's best that he go to another team--trade him.

 

Quick. Name the World Champion Giants' SS. And it's not Scutaro. He plays 2B.

[a700hitter]

That's not what his manager, Arnie Beyeler, said. The kid is only 22, and he has yet to get a fair chance at becoming a decent hitter. The discussion about his hitting has been way overdone in the media. As I've said, it's best that he go to another team--trade him.

 

Quick. Name the World Champion Giants' SS. And it's not Scutaro. He plays 2B.

Crawford. If we had the Giants pitching where they could put Lincecum in the bull pen, I would much care if our SS could hit. But we have terrible pitching, so we will need to bludgeon people.

[SoxSport]

Crawford. If we had the Giants pitching where they could put Lincecum in the bull pen, I would much care if our SS could hit. But we have terrible pitching, so we will need to bludgeon people.

 

You got it. good field, no-hit. The Giants are better than the Dodgers because they are smarter. And still have better pitching.

 

The Red Sox? They have nowhere to go but up.

[NZSox]

Any scout will tell you that it is hard to project whether a good minor league hitter will hit in the Big Leagues where pitchers put it where they want and can throw a good off speed pitch in a 2-0 and 3-1 count instead of getting a fat fastball in those counts down on the farm. I preface what I want to say by that because this is just MY opinion as one who coached and did some scouting for friends in my salad days. To me Iglesias doesn't look the type to ever develop into a hitter. He has a slow bat, is tentative on pitches, has poor plate control and gets late jumps on pitches. He could develop but from watching him on the tube he seems like a long drawn out project.

 

Drew gives us a year's grace with someone who can hit from the left side since we now seem too righthanded and can pave the way for Boegarts to take over in 2014 hopefully. I think the Red Sox came to that same conclusion---that Jose simply did not have the ability to consistently hit a baseball.

 

With that said, would you expect the FO to trade Iggy then? Bearing in mind Ciriaco can cover for Drew.

[seabeachfred]

With that said, would you expect the FO to trade Iggy then? Bearing in mind Ciriaco can cover for Drew.

 

I don't know what the Red Sox have in mind for Iglesias my friend, but if you'll permit me a little sarcasm, I don't think the Red Sox what to do with him or what to do PERIOD!!!! To me it is astounding just how inept our front office has gotten the past four years. I do believe they think Boegarts can take over in 2014 and be a decent enough defensive shortstop with a lethal bat to go with it. It would take care of the left side of our infield for a decade. Those who want to trade Iggy must know that he alone will not bring us much in exchange; he would have to be part of a package due to his woefully weak bat.

 

Consider this too. You have Iglesias at SS but late in the game you have a tie and two on and two out and he is at bat. You would most likely have to pinch hit for him or see the rally die. Then what? You put an inferior fielder in to take is place. Better to have a SS who can both field and swing a bat---and I hear Bogie can do that very well.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[jung]

Boegarts is the B I was referring to that is crawling up Iggys butt for the SS job which is why I contended that the Sox had this year to finally figure it out on Iggy and thats it.

 

As I posted in the other thread my view of it is that Iggy will not improve significantly going back down to AAA. He spent most of his 2012 ML stint employing a slap hitting style that was either tolerated by the AAA club or possibly resulted because Iggy was so completely overwhelmed by the difference between ML pitching and AAA pitching.

 

The slap hitting style became very popular with college ballplayers playing in the era of the early metal bat design. In fact many pro baseball careers foundered on the rocks of change to an all wooden bat league.

 

I have no idea what the genesis was for Iggy adopting it. However Iggy only started to make modest improvements late in 2012 when he finally abandoned the slap hitting style. Whether it was tolerated in AAA by his AAA coaches or whether Iggy adopted something of a defensive swing, simply overwhelmed by the dif in AAA and ML pitching I cannot say. On that score alone I think that Iggy is the kind of hitter that will only improve at this stage against ML pitching. Sending him back down will not help him develop as an ML hitter. He has to learn to stand in and hit against ML pitching. Either the Sox give him that opportunity or they don't. I have contended for more than a year now that whether I think it right or not, I don't believe the Sox will give him that chance as he will never be the prototypical Sox SS. Not to say that there is anything so admirable in being a prototypical Sox SS but he is clearly not Iggy. Boegarts stands a much better chance of filling that slot and may even have a better glove that we usually find patrolling SS for the Sox. Boegarts will remind nobody of Iggy out there but this is the Sox, a team fully willing to put a utility infielder at SS on an everyday basis hoping that his bat makes up for his fielding inadequacies.

 

To me 2013 represents a year when they could afford to finally figure out players like Iggy but that it not to be. If I had Iggy in the 2013 lineup I would not pinch hit for him late in games. Again unfortunately from what I can see if he is to develop further as a hitter it will have to be against ML pitching.

[BSN07]

Six months after extending Andre Ethier, the Dodgers are considering trading him. The Dodgers are shopping Ethier, and could be a suitor for Nick Swisher if they complete a trade, Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News reports (on Twitter).

 

Any interest here?

[Dojji]

Hope so. Ethier>Victorino AINEC

[SoxSport]

I'll say it a again. The kid comes up and plays 25 games on a dysfunctional team at the end of the year, when everybody has quit trying to win. And now everybody is quitting on him?

 

Not quite. One year of Drew probably means a year in AAA for Iglesias. That will cost them another $2 million. They are paying $12 million for Drew. For a team that has little chance to make the playoffs. It makes no difference. They could have played Ciricao at SS for peanuts. He deserved it from his showing last year.

[Dojji]

Just because they have little chance doesn't mean they shouldn't sieze at the chance they have.