Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[a700hitter]

To be clear, prior to last season, Lester had 4 consecutive seasons where his WAR was better than Sanchez's best season of his career. He's 28 years old. It is absolutely foolish to think that he's all washed up. Cliff Lee put up -0.9 WAR at his age 28 season and won the Cy Young the next season. It is even more absurd to make claims about it being "our problem" if some of us aren't willing to assume Sanchez or McCarthy would be better. McCarthy has put up a 2.9 and 2.0 WAR season the last two years. The 4 seasons prior to 2012 Lester put up between 4.1 and 5.9 every season.

 

You want to know what it is to believe that most teams would rather have Sanchez or McCarthy than Lester? Laughable. Absolutely laughable. Your blowhard proclamations make you sound silly and uninformed. Sorry if you don't want to believe it, but its true.

 

I would agree that the Sox should go get one of these guys, but to say that they would be able to easily slide into a #1 or #2 over a pitcher like Lester is over the top.

You always, yes always, look to make things personal. ^ This post is crap. You are acting like a huge blowhard. Learn to make a distinction between an opinion about sports and attacking people.:thumbdown

[seabeachfred]

To be clear, prior to last season, Lester had 4 consecutive seasons where his WAR was better than Sanchez's best season of his career. He's 28 years old. It is absolutely foolish to think that he's all washed up. Cliff Lee put up -0.9 WAR at his age 28 season and won the Cy Young the next season. It is even more absurd to make claims about it being "our problem" if some of us aren't willing to assume Sanchez or McCarthy would be better. McCarthy has put up a 2.9 and 2.0 WAR season the last two years. The 4 seasons prior to 2012 Lester put up between 4.1 and 5.9 every season.

 

You want to know what it is to believe that most teams would rather have Sanchez or McCarthy than Lester? Laughable. Absolutely laughable. Your blowhard proclamations make you sound silly and uninformed. Sorry if you don't want to believe it, but its true.

 

I would agree that the Sox should go get one of these guys, but to say that they would be able to easily slide into a #1 or #2 over a pitcher like Lester is over the top.

 

Lester stunk this past year. Not only was he racked around the park by the hitters but his dog-face attitude of always bitching and complaining to umpires every damn game he pitched wore pretty thin. In fact, he started coming apart late in the 2011 season when he started falling apart with the team. When they needed an ace to stem the tide of collpase, he game them an ass instead. The guy was a total bum on the mound and for you to think that he is going to come back strong is ridiculous. He is no better than a No. 4 pitcher, maybe three when he has his declining stuff working for him and his head is not mentally up his ass. I would much rather have a Haren or Sanchez than that piece of crap who was supposed to be our "ace" this season.

 

Could he turn it around and come back strong? He could but I'm not holding my breath that he will---and neither should you.

[User Name]

Why not? They're bringing back the pitching coach he enjoyed the most success with as a manager, they'll have a better defensive catcher for him, and they got rid of the clubhouse cancers. He'll be pitching for his next contract to boot. His stuff is still there, so why shouldn't a bounce-back be expected?

[a700hitter]

^ Thank goodness for the ignore feature.

[seabeachfred]

It's not unreasonable. Interested to see what the AAV is. If it's 12-15M, I'd be ok with that. But I can also see Seattle overpaying to get him. Something the Sox probably should not do.

 

Fenway is much better for Napoli than Seattle's park is and we have the money to sign him, and we need him. He gives us real versatiity---batter, lB, Catcher, DH-----and the prices for good free agents is going up. We ARE going to have to overpay some, just as other teams will have to, because this is a player's market this year. We better understand that if we want to compete we may have to pay above what we want to, unless, that is, we are satisfied by loading up on the Gomeses. Think another 69-93 if we do that? Likely.

[a700hitter]

Fenway is much better for Napoli than Seattle's park is and we have the money to sign him, and we need him. He gives us real versatiity---batter, lB, Catcher, DH-----and the prices for good free agents is going up. We ARE going to have to overpay some, just as other teams will have to, because this is a player's market this year. We better understand that if we want to compete we may have to pay above what we want to, unless, that is, we are satisfied by loading up on the Gomeses. Think another 69-93 if we do that? Likely.

There is one downside to signing Napoli. He will not be hitting against our pitching.

[seabeachfred]

You always, yes always, look to make things personal. ^ This post is crap. You are acting like a huge blowhard. Learn to make a distinction between an opinion about sports and attacking people.:thumbdown

 

You know Ted, I wondered when I read his reply to me whether he watched many of our games this past season, especially the ones Lester threw. It is no fun tearing Jon down but just a brief look into his season blares loudly just how lousy he was. I counted four games that he pitched worthy of an "ace"---Phillies, White Sox, Yankees and Rays. Aside from that he was terrible. However, I was attacking Lester and not Ex1. The guy takes a lot of things personal and he can count on being attacked right back if he keeps this up.

 

The proof is positive....Lester stunk this past season. If he and Buchholz had pitched like Nos. 1 and 2 we sure as hell wouldn't have gone 69-93. And we still need pitching.

[seabeachfred]

There is one downside to signing Napoli. He will not be hitting against our pitching.

 

Ha!!!!!!! Well he could pretend he is still wearing an Angels or Rangers uniform when he comes to the plate at Fenway. Face it, the Fens is still there and I can see the guy drooling when he sees that Monster. Now if Cherington can only pull the trigger insteading of crapping out again.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[SoxFanForsyth]

Looks like the Sox are hesitating to give Napoli a 4th year. He's meeting w Seattle, though, who may offer up.

 

I think the Sox will ultimately give him 4/36 or 4/44, somewhere in thy area. Potentially a 3/36 with a 10mm option.

 

Would you give him a 4th year?

 

I would. He's got versatility, and has the stick to DH in years 3 and 4 when Ortiz is gone.

 

He's a middle of the order RH power bat that this team needs, and he comes cheap. I give him a 4th year if I'm Cherrington.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Late to the party I see. Good to see others agree w giving Napoli a 4th year.

 

Happy Thanksgiving all!

[BSN07]

You know Ted, I wondered when I read his reply to me whether he watched many of our games this past season, especially the ones Lester threw. It is no fun tearing Jon down but just a brief look into his season blares loudly just how lousy he was. I counted four games that he pitched worthy of an "ace"---Phillies, White Sox, Yankees and Rays. Aside from that he was terrible. However, I was attacking Lester and not Ex1. The guy takes a lot of things personal and he can count on being attacked right back if he keeps this up.

 

The proof is positive....Lester stunk this past season. If he and Buchholz had pitched like Nos. 1 and 2 we sure as hell wouldn't have gone 69-93. And we still need pitching.

 

He had a horrendous July that was skewed for that 11 run Valentine debacle, a good August and a average September. Overall it was not a great season for Lester. I don't think it's the end of him by any means though. He is a prime candidate for a bounce back season IMO.

[User Name]

Mike Napoli:

 

Career 1.017 OPS hitter at Fenway. 1.156 OPS hitter at New Yankee Stadium. .890 OPS hitter at Tropicana. .837 OPS hitter at Camden. .783 OPS hitter at Toronto. Career .911 OPS hitter against lefties.

 

What's the hold-up?

[a700hitter]

He had a horrendous July that was skewed for that 11 run Valentine debacle, a good August and a average September. Overall it was not a great season for Lester. I don't think it's the end of him by any means though. He is a prime candidate for a bounce back season IMO.

His best stretches last year were mediocre. He had no stretches where he resembled a number 1 or 2. It's as simple as that. His results were not skewed by anything. He was just awful.

[User Name]

His best stretches last year were mediocre. He had no stretches where he resembled a number 1 or 2. It's as simple as that. His results were not skewed by anything. He was just awful.

 

Wait, what?

 

This is why you gotta check the numbers before hitting that Reply button:

 

Jon Lester Home stats: 102. 1 IP, 6.31 ERA, 1.58 WHIP.

 

Jon Lester Road stats: 98.1 IP, 3.20 ERA, 1.15 WHIP.

 

Lester pitched like an ace on the road at all times. The problem was that he couldn't get outs at home. That seems like an issue that's piggybacking another problem. What that problem is/was, none of us will ever know, but it should be fixable, especially now that they cleaned house.

[Bellhorn04]

Mike Napoli:

 

Career 1.017 OPS hitter at Fenway. 1.156 OPS hitter at New Yankee Stadium. .890 OPS hitter at Tropicana. .837 OPS hitter at Camden. .783 OPS hitter at Toronto. Career .911 OPS hitter against lefties.

 

What's the hold-up?

 

Agreed. They have to get this done. Give him the 4th year, for f***'s sake.

[seabeachfred]

Why not? They're bringing back the pitching coach he enjoyed the most success with as a manager, they'll have a better defensive catcher for him, and they got rid of the clubhouse cancers. He'll be pitching for his next contract to boot. His stuff is still there, so why shouldn't a bounce-back be expected?

 

Good way to look at it UN. I think a lot of it depends on what's going on in Lester's head. You saw it this year; the guy was always bitching and complaining about calls and too often one bad call and he unraveled. I watched him in Chicago in June and he's shutting out the C ubs 4-0 in the seventh. One call goes against him and he comes apart and soon it is 4-3. We did hang on to win but the next morning Shaunessy and I are working out in the hotel fitness center and Dan is going off on Jon, predicting correctly that if he doesn't get his s*** together the season might be lost. It was and Lester was absolutely pathetic in his home park as you pointed out.

 

I think the stff is still there too, but is the head? I think his mental otlook could play a big key next season. I am still a little skeptical about the guy.

[Bellhorn04]

Hopefully all the coaching changes will have a positive effect on both Lester and Buch.

[seabeachfred]

Mike Napoli:

 

Career 1.017 OPS hitter at Fenway. 1.156 OPS hitter at New Yankee Stadium. .890 OPS hitter at Tropicana. .837 OPS hitter at Camden. .783 OPS hitter at Toronto. Career .911 OPS hitter against lefties.

 

What's the hold-up?

 

Cherington is the hold-up UN. He is always the hold-up. The guy moves slower than a snail's pace and his so risk averse t hat he absol utely makes foam at the mouth.

 

Get it done Ben. Stop from letting me be reinforced with the negative feelings I have towards you. Just get it done for once.

[User Name]

Cherington is the hold-up UN. He is always the hold-up. The guy moves slower than a snail's pace and his so risk averse t hat he absol utely makes foam at the mouth.

 

Get it done Ben. Stop from letting me be reinforced with the negative feelings I have towards you. Just get it done for once.

 

Fred, this is fail-thought. The hold-up is Lucchino, who we both know is who actually runs this team. Ben has little financial freedom. I don't understand your penchant for using the guy as a scapegoat.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Mike Napoli:

 

Career 1.017 OPS hitter at Fenway. 1.156 OPS hitter at New Yankee Stadium. .890 OPS hitter at Tropicana. .837 OPS hitter at Camden. .783 OPS hitter at Toronto. Career .911 OPS hitter against lefties.

 

What's the hold-up?

 

110% agree.

 

But I'm almost certain that the Sox will pull the trigger on the deal.

 

I think he will end up getting 3/36 with a mutual option or a player option for 10mm

[Bellhorn04]

If Napoli signs with Seattle it will not be a happy moment for Sox fans.

[seabeachfred]

He had a horrendous July that was skewed for that 11 run Valentine debacle, a good August and a average September. Overall it was not a great season for Lester. I don't think it's the end of him by any means though. He is a prime candidate for a bounce back season IMO.

 

That sure didn't help BSN, but I was more concerned with his mental attitude. He seemed to be overwrought and combative with umpires every time he pitched. Remember that Saturday gem he threw against the Yankees in YS in late August? He looked like the old Jon but it didn't last. Look, we all want the guy to come around but after what we saw this season we should all be a little gunshy abo ut the pitcher.

[SoxFanForsyth]

If Napoli signs with Seattle it will not be a happy moment for Sox fans.

 

I agree, but I'm confident they'll get it done.

 

Plus, you gotta think Napoli is going to want to go to a contender, which the Sox are going to build to be certain.

[SoxFanForsyth]

That sure didn't help BSN, but I was more concerned with his mental attitude. He seemed to be overwrought and combative with umpires every time he pitched. Remember that Saturday gem he threw against the Yankees in YS in late August? He looked like the old Jon but it didn't last. Look, we all want the guy to come around but after what we saw this season we should all be a little gunshy abo ut the pitcher.

 

Yes but you also have to look at who was leading the team. A guy who complained publicly about the umpires.

 

Farrell is a no nonsense, create your own fortunes manager.

[seabeachfred]

Fred, this is fail-thought. The hold-up is Lucchino, who we both know is who actually runs this team. Ben has little financial freedom. I don't understand your penchant for using the guy as a scapegoat.

 

UN--that's the problem my friend. I don't know who is running the show over there and neither do you or 700 or BSN or anyone else. They say Ben is the GM so he should start acting like one. Make the offer and let Luchhino over-rule him. Believe me the press will pick up on it if you have it pegged right. It is time for Ben to show some balls and make the move. He would gain new respect from the fans and he might not do too badly with Henry either.

[SoxSport]

Overpaying for a FREE agent is a fact of life. That's because you don't have to give up equal players to get him--like in a trade--or even a prospect. Sure, in some cases a draft choice, but that doesn't dissuade owners from overpaying if they want somebody. The agents know that, and scrape for the last dollar to fill their own wallets.

[bubbakeg52]

Napoli better be signing with Sox 3 years. If they have to give a 4th year why not. He is built for Fenway. He will hit like Mike Lowell. Last Nick Swisher sucks dick

[Spitball]

Shane Victorino is coming off an off year and will see his stock drop. We tend to look at recent production, and lots of players have great walk year and reap the benefits.

 

Adrian Beltre was a very good signing as he was coming off poor recent production. Victorino is a somewhat similar story and just might be the best buy in outfield talent...and the best replacement for Ellsbury if he walks away.

[redsoxfan3]

Napoli better be signing with Sox 3 years. If they have to give a 4th year why not. He is built for Fenway. He will hit like Mike Lowell. Last Nick Swisher sucks dick

 

Napoli is more interested in Boston because of a better chance of team success. Boston is more "appealing" than Seattle. Although, the years for him is a big factor. It would not come as a surprise if he signs with Seattle if they offer four and we stay at three. A team option or mutual option for a fourth might get the job done. Jen Royle is reporting that Mike Napoli is likely to sign with the Red Sox during winter meetings, who is a friend of Mike. I like the move.

 

I like him because he will provide some power. Does anyone know if he will be a 1B or C primarily? I would prefer him to play 1B in a platoon role with Sands, and have him catch on occasion. I like the flexibility of him being able to play C and 1B, and provide some power. That leaves us with Ross and Napoli being on the roster for sure next year, with Lavarnway and Salty as question marks. Do we trade Salty and have Lavarnway, Ross, and Napoli or do we send Lavarnway to AAA and keep Salty to split time with Ross and have Napoli catch on occasion. I think this puts us in a decent situation. We just have to figure something out. I am assuming IF we do make this a done deal that we look to package Salty in a deal for sure, but then again I am not Ben Cherington.

 

What would it take to get Jon Niese from the Mets? The Mets need a C and they might be interested in Salty in a package deal. Niese is only 25 and had a career year last year. He had a 3.40 ERA, 1.172 WHIP, and pitched 190.1 innings. He is also under team control through 2016. If he can consistently pitch those numbers, then that would be a plus. Would Doubront and Salty be enough to get Niese, or would we have to do Salty, Doubront, and prospect(s)?

[redsoxfan3]

Also, I did not get to comment about the signing of Gomes yet. He had a decent year last year, and in a platoon role I do not mind the signing, but if he is our everyday starter, then I will not be too thrilled about it. I am happy we made an effort to sign a guy like Gomes. If it is true about how good of a clubhouse guy he is and he provides good leadership, then I think it is a decent signing. He has some power and that will be a plus. He puts up similar numbers like Ross at a cheaper price. I am not too familiar with his defense, but his offensive power will be a plus. The addition of Napoli and Gomes will give us decent power to hit in the lineup with Ellsbury, Pedroia, Ortiz, and Middlebrooks. I am really hoping Sands will have a solid year and will reach some of his potential. Also, it is being reported that we could resign Ross. That could mean that Ross, Gomes, Sweeney, Ellsbury, and Kalish could be our five OF's.