Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[reYoukilis]

I look at San Francisco Giants and say paying alot of money for one guy, especially a batter is a mistake.

 

I wonder if we could get Swisher and Napoli for the same price as Hamilton. Or Swisher and Youk. Im all for Youk coming back if his health problems seem solvable and the price is right. I was surprised to see that he's only 34.

[SCM33]

I look at San Francisco Giants and say paying alot of money for one guy, especially a batter is a mistake.

 

I wonder if we could get Swisher and Napoli for the same price as Hamilton. Or Swisher and Youk. Im all for Youk coming back if his health problems seem solvable and the price is right. I was surprised to see that he's only 34.

 

Ill take Napoli and Swisher over Hamilton.

 

I am not against Hamilton.....but 2 players extend the lineup.

 

What about Napoli AND Hamilton? Thats not out of the question.

 

Also, is Jason Bay worth a spring training invite?

[example1]

Other teams with a lot less resources have made brilliant seasons the last 4 years. I'm not sure why some people still defending this FO, I simply do not. We have a great fan base, resources, the stadium is always full and sold out, history, etc. what else a GM in Boston needs in order to succeed? what?

 

Did any of them do it after their worst season in 40 years?

 

What else do they need? Most of them need players who are achieving at the top of their capability and possibly to make some good player acquisitions in the process.

 

You guys are acting like there are a ton of players who are available, at virtually no cost to the organization, who are guaranteed to make the team contenders. Who are these guys?

[iortiz]

Did any of them do it after their worst season in 40 years?

 

What else do they need? Most of them need players who are achieving at the top of their capability and possibly to make some good player acquisitions in the process.

 

You guys are acting like there are a ton of players who are available, at virtually no cost to the organization, who are guaranteed to make the team contenders. Who are these guys?

 

IDK E1, but that is not the point. My point is that we have everything to bounce back... but you need a good chief in command to bounce us back. Let's see if our actual FO is capable to do that.

[SCM33]

Did any of them do it after their worst season in 40 years?

 

What else do they need? Most of them need players who are achieving at the top of their capability and possibly to make some good player acquisitions in the process.

 

You guys are acting like there are a ton of players who are available, at virtually no cost to the organization, who are guaranteed to make the team contenders. Who are these guys?

 

 

Agreed.

 

Its not going to happen over night.

 

This team is not going to finish above third place, no matter what they do. Its better to just accept it. There is simply not enough good players on the market, and the players that are available have HUGE question marks.

 

You guys realize the Redsox are competing with 29 other teams for the FA's right?

[a700hitter]

Did any of them do it after their worst season in 40 years?

 

What else do they need? Most of them need players who are achieving at the top of their capability and possibly to make some good player acquisitions in the process.

 

You guys are acting like there are a ton of players who are available, at virtually no cost to the organization, who are guaranteed to make the team contenders. Who are these guys?

Those teams have not had their worst season in 40 years, because their organizations are not run by bumbling idiots at every level. E1, I don't even know what point you are trying to make. The 2012 team is a disgrace. They have a very modest payroll with lots of flexibility. There is zero excuse for not getting this team back to respectability in 2013. None. Good players change teams every offseason thru trades and free agency. The 'who are these guys" lament rings hollow. Teams will make plenty of moves this offseason. There has already been 1 blockbuster trade. The question is whether the Red Sox will jump in and make some moves. Staying pat would not be conservative and it wouldn't be building towards anything. It would just be a continuation of futility.

 

December 1st is Christmas at Fenway when tickets go on sale. I expect that we will see some moves to improve the team before then. If we don't, I will be surprised and concerned about 2013 and beyond.

[example1]

I am not expecting a great team in 2013, but I would expect a team in 2013 that is not embarrassingly bad like the 2012 team. With 2 wild card teams, if a team is not embarrassingly bad and it is somewhat competitive, they can make a run at a playoff spot. There is no reason why a team with the Red Sox resources cannot be respectable in 2013 while building for the future. The future doesn't have to be sacrificed to get back to respectability. The Jays didn't mortgage their future. They improved their team.

 

The Jays have sent a way a significant portion of their best prospects over the past year. Furthermore, it is really, really hard to say they didn't mortgage their future when we haven't seen what those players become. We will only know if they mortgaged their future if a) they aren't competitive soon and the players they dealt become significantly more valuable than what they got back.

 

I can't see fit to defend Cherries until he makes some moves that will help this team get back to respectability. He's not acting conservatively. He's has not taken any action that is helpful.

 

It's not surprising that you can't defend Cherrington. He hasn't given you the goodies you feel entitled to. He is acting conservatively though. He's keeping the good things (perceived good things) that the team has and is trying to get maximum value from them. The money is still there, it will be spent eventually. Prospects might be dealt, but only when they think the right package comes along.

 

From the reports I've read, just about everyone is saying the Sox are easily the most active team right now. Just because you haven't heard anything doesn't mean they are just sitting around with their thumbs up their asses.

[SCM33]

Those teams have not had their worst season in 40 years, because their organizations are not run by bumbling idiots at every level. E1, I don't even know what point you are trying to make. The 2012 team is a disgrace. They have a very modest payroll with lots of flexibility. There is zero excuse for not getting this team back to respectability in 2013. None. Good players change teams every offseason thru trades and free agency. The 'who are these guys" lament rings hollow. Teams will make plenty of moves this offseason. There has already been 1 blockbuster trade. The question is whether the Red Sox will jump in and make some moves. Staying pat would not be conservative and it wouldn't be building towards anything. It would just be a continuation of futility.

 

December 1st is Christmas at Fenway when tickets go on sale. I expect that we will see some moves to improve the team before then. If we don't, I will be surprised and concerned about 2013 and beyond.

 

a700, I used to agree with a lot of what you used to say. You need to take a step back and let last year go man.

 

From the looks of things, the Redsox really effect your life, which is not healthy. How can you be that negative all the time?

[example1]

Those teams have not had their worst season in 40 years, because their organizations are not run by bumbling idiots at every level. E1, I don't even know what point you are trying to make. The 2012 team is a disgrace. They have a very modest payroll with lots of flexibility. There is zero excuse for not getting this team back to respectability in 2013. None. Good players change teams every offseason thru trades and free agency. The 'who are these guys" lament rings hollow. Teams will make plenty of moves this offseason. There has already been 1 blockbuster trade. The question is whether the Red Sox will jump in and make some moves. Staying pat would not be conservative and it wouldn't be building towards anything. It would just be a continuation of futility.

 

December 1st is Christmas at Fenway when tickets go on sale. I expect that we will see some moves to improve the team before then. If we don't, I will be surprised and concerned about 2013 and beyond.

 

My point isn't hard to understand, and you should be familiar with it by now. I will always advocate waiting for the data to come in before pretending to know what the outcome is going to be. It is November 15th. Like you, I see the Sox money. I see their holes. I see their incentive to have a good team next year. I think they will put something together that looks much, much better than it does now.

 

At the same time, I'm not so foolish as to think that would be possible within the first few weeks or that deals can magically materialize overnight. Furthermore, me not being privy to all the thinking of the front office it would be foolish of me to pretend that I know what is or isn't happening behind the scenes.

[a700hitter]

The Jays have sent a way a significant portion of their best prospects over the past year. Furthermore, it is really, really hard to say they didn't mortgage their future when we haven't seen what those players become. We will only know if they mortgaged their future if a) they aren't competitive soon and the players they dealt become significantly more valuable than what they got back.

The Jays have sucked for quite a few years. They have a nice talented corps of players with Bautista, Encarnacion, and Lawrie. They decided that their future is now. At some point a franchise has to go for it and stop playing for the future.

 

It's not surprising that you can't defend Cherrington. He hasn't given you the goodies you feel entitled to. He is acting conservatively though. He's keeping the good things (perceived good things) that the team has and is trying to get maximum value from them. The money is still there, it will be spent eventually. Prospects might be dealt, but only when they think the right package comes along.

 

From the reports I've read, just about everyone is saying the Sox are easily the most active team right now. Just because you haven't heard anything doesn't mean they are just sitting around with their thumbs up their asses.

Stop with the entitled crap. I am not bashing the guy. I am waiting for him to do something. I am not defending or killing him yet. I am waiting. As I have been saying, I expect that there will be moves before December 1st. Right now, I would not say that his approach is patient or measured or conservative. We have no idea what the hell his plan is or how he will execute it. I am waiting like every other Sox fan. What the hell are you defending? Nothing has happened yet. Please cut the crap until something happens. Am I supposed to coo about his efforts to get a minor league batting instructor?

[a700hitter]

My point isn't hard to understand, and you should be familiar with it by now. I will always advocate waiting for the data to come in before pretending to know what the outcome is going to be. It is November 15th. Like you, I see the Sox money. I see their holes. I see their incentive to have a good team next year. I think they will put something together that looks much, much better than it does now.

 

At the same time, I'm not so foolish as to think that would be possible within the first few weeks or that deals can magically materialize overnight. Furthermore, me not being privy to all the thinking of the front office it would be foolish of me to pretend that I know what is or isn't happening behind the scenes.

So why are you up in my face. I am waiting too. Must you disagree with me when there is nothing to fight over?

 

Edit: I don't remember pretending to know what is or isn't happening behind the scenes. I have already said that I don't have a clue to his plan.

[reYoukilis]

Ill take Napoli and Swisher over Hamilton.

 

I am not against Hamilton.....but 2 players extend the lineup.

 

What about Napoli AND Hamilton? Thats not out of the question.

 

Also, is Jason Bay worth a spring training invite?

 

Im kind of leery about Hamilton. The drug thing is one thing but I also hear stuff about his attitude from some of the Rangers. Im also leery about his health issues and whether its from the drug use.

[iortiz]

a700, I used to agree with a lot of what you used to say. You need to take a step back and let last year go man.

 

From the looks of things, the Redsox really effect your life, which is not healthy. How can you be that negative all the time?

 

Sorry SCM33 I used to agree with you as well. I think that he is putting things in a very good perspective.

 

We have to be capable to put a legit contender WC team at least SCM. Look that I'm not saying WS contender team. Just put a team that can run for at least the 2nd WC and that could be exciting to watch... is that too much to ask for a team like the Boston Red Sox?, Really?

 

Sure...Lets wait and see what our FO can do.

[a700hitter]

a700, I used to agree with a lot of what you used to say. You need to take a step back and let last year go man.

 

From the looks of things, the Redsox really effect your life, which is not healthy. How can you be that negative all the time?

What the hell are you talking about? I let last year go at the All Star break. I am looking forward, and I see no reason, none why a team with such payroll flexibility cannot return to playing respectable ball after last year's debacle.

[example1]

The Jays have sucked for quite a few years. They have a nice talented corps of players with Bautista, Encarnacion, and Lawrie. They decided that their future is now. At some point a franchise has to go for it and stop playing for the future.

 

It is like the strongest possible cognitive dissonance when I read statements like this. The Sox did everything a team could reasonably do over the past 10 years to be a contending team. They rarely did any waiting for the future as a franchise. Theo even mentioned that it would be smart to wait for the future and he was raked over the coals for daring to work from a strategy that says not every year will be a WS year and those years are an opportunity to re-stock and solidify the team's base.

 

What are the differences in years where the team isn't in contention? Well, you don't end up signing any bad contracts. Not one. There's not an excuse for them to spend one dime more than they need to, or one season more than they need to, if they don't think they need that particular player for a WS run. Signing a guy like Anibel Sanchez for 5 years might make you happier for an offseason, but if he is in the way when they are making their big push next year or the year after, it isn't worth it.

[SCM33]

Sorry SCM33 I used to agree with you as well. I think that he is putting things in a very good perspective.

 

We have to be capable to put a legit contender WC team at least SCM. Look that I'm not saying WS contender team. Just put a team that can run for at least the 2nd WC and that could be exciting to watch... is that too much to ask for a team like the Boston Red Sox?, Really?

 

Sure...Lets wait and see what our FO can do.

 

Ok, so what in your mind puts them in that position. All I've seen is bitching.

 

What would you do?

[SCM33]

What the hell are you talking about? I let last year go at the All Star break. I am looking forward, and I see no reason, none why a team with such payroll flexibility cannot return to playing respectable ball after last year's debacle.

 

Then stop talking about it.

 

You must be pretty liquored up to be smiling so much.

[a700hitter]

It is like the strongest possible cognitive dissonance when I read statements like this. The Sox did everything a team could reasonably do over the past 10 years to be a contending team. They rarely did any waiting for the future as a franchise. Theo even mentioned that it would be smart to wait for the future and he was raked over the coals for daring to work from a strategy that says not every year will be a WS year and those years are an opportunity to re-stock and solidify the team's base.

 

What are the differences in years where the team isn't in contention? Well, you don't end up signing any bad contracts. Not one. There's not an excuse for them to spend one dime more than they need to, or one season more than they need to, if they don't think they need that particular player for a WS run. Signing a guy like Anibel Sanchez for 5 years might make you happier for an offseason, but if he is in the way when they are making their big push next year or the year after, it isn't worth it.

I wasn't comparing the jays approach to the Red Sox approach for the past 10 years, so comments in your post are irrelevant.

[a700hitter]

Then stop talking about it.

 

You must be pretty liquored up to be smiling so much.

Bring over your breathalyzer. I'll pass with flying colors. 2012 is the worst season in my long memory, but Cherries has set the bar very very low to show improvement. Talk about negative, you think the guy is merely a stooge, a puppet, a paper cutout.

[a700hitter]

Ok, so what in your mind puts them in that position. All I've seen is bitching.

 

What would you do?

Get 2 solid starters. Pick up a RH Ofer or resign Ross. get a guy to platoon at first with Gomez. I could live with Loney. Get a strong bullpen arm capable of closing if Bailey goes down. That would be a respectable team IMO. It wouldn't break the bank or mortgage the future.

[SCM33]

Get 2 solid starters. Pick up a RH Ofer or resign Ross. get a guy to platoon at first with Gomez. I could live with Loney. Get a strong bullpen arm capable of closing if Bailey goes down. That would be a respectable team IMO. It wouldn't break the bank or mortgage the future.

 

So, basically the same team as last year....

 

With a "strong" bullpen arm and 2 starters.

 

Who are the starters?

 

Some plan.

[iortiz]

Ok, so what in your mind puts them in that position. All I've seen is bitching.

 

What would you do?

 

bitching? naaaah

 

I have put so many options, look at the thread.

 

We can put tons of names SCM33...(We all have)... The important thing is going to be what our FO really sign/trade.

[iortiz]

Then stop talking about it.

 

You must be pretty liquored up to be smiling so much.

 

Why are you so rude today SCM33?

[a700hitter]

So, basically the same team as last year....

 

With a "strong" bullpen arm and 2 starters.

 

Who are the starters?

 

Some plan.

There will be plenty of starters to change laundry this off season. They don't need to be stars-- guys like Buehrle who are dependable. Like iortiz said, there have been plenty of names floated out there. I believe that pitching is the biggest need. Two starters and a bullpen guy would make a huge difference. Last year, it was all about the pitching sucking.

[a700hitter]

Why are you so rude today SCM33?

He's anti smiley face today. What a lousy mood he is in.

[a700hitter]

So, basically the same team as last year....

 

With a "strong" bullpen arm and 2 starters.

 

Who are the starters?

 

Some plan.

So you don't like my plan. What is your plan?

[SCM33]

Why are you so rude today SCM33?

Because its the same stuff everyday here. I am not a BC guy. I criticized the move when it was made, but at least be fair.

 

There will be plenty of starters to change laundry this off season. They don't need to be stars-- guys like Buehrle who are dependable. Like iortiz said, there have been plenty of names floated out there. I believe that pitching is the biggest need. Two starters and a bullpen guy would make a huge difference. Last year, it was all about the pitching sucking.

 

Well who? Who are these plenty of guys? You rip BC apart, but don't name anybody. Mark Buerhle is not a run of the mill starter. He is 200+ IP, 12-14 wins and 3.7-4.0 ERA.

 

Who are the guys available, in addition to essentially the same exact s***** team last year that are going to make a difference?

 

He's anti smiley face today. What a lousy mood he is in.

 

Because you are so negative about s*** you can't control. This team is not making the playoffs next year, and there is not a whole helluva lot on the market that is going to change it. You are just banging your head against the wall.

[a700hitter]

Well who? Who are these plenty of guys? You rip BC apart, but don't name anybody. Mark Buerhle is not a run of the mill starter. He is 200+ IP, 12-14 wins and 3.7-4.0 ERA.

 

Who are the guys available, in addition to essentially the same exact s***** team last year that are going to make a difference?

They will be moving in the upcoming weeks. I hope we get a couple of them.

 

Because you are so negative about s*** you can't control. This team is not making the playoffs next year, and there is not a whole helluva lot on the market that is going to change it. You are just banging your head against the wall.

Read the threads. I have said over and over that I am waiting to see what happens. There's nothing to argue about, because nothing has happened yet. The waiting is frustrating, but I have also posted a number of times that I expect moves before December 1st. How that is negative is lost on me. I think you are being a bit of a dick tonight.

[iortiz]

Because its the same stuff everyday here. I am not a BC guy. I criticized the move when it was made, but at least be fair.

 

I haven't posted as I used to. Today I had a day off so I decided stay home watch TV and say hello to talksox community. Since nothing happens I thing the speculation grow and grow, just like last offseason, remember?.

 

I just point what I think is good or wrong with the team. Nothing personal against any poster. You know that I usually like your posting SCM.

 

Peace!

[Emmz]

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