Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[bubbakeg52]

If you think LH batters are weak in Fenway Park, then you don't like LaRoche.. is that right RJORTIZ

[a700hitter]

The Red Sox pitching is going to live or die on Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz.

 

A scary thought, to be sure. But I think that's where this team is heading. They'll make an acquisition this year, likely a guy like Garza or Niese or Sanchez, but I really think Cherrington is going to go into next season with a rotation of Lester - Buchholz - Niese - Doubront - Lackey.

 

And that's almost certainly not going to be enough to compete for a WS title. A weak AL East title? Sure. WS? Almost certainly not.

 

But I think Cherrington is going to be focused on keeping the kids and not sacrificing the future for the current team. And I think that's a good, disciplined approach. Guys like Upton are tempting, but cooler heads prevail and I'm glad they didn't dish De La Rosa or any of the B's for him.

Our staff with the addition of Niese would leave us in 4th place or the basement.

[Palodios]

Jason Bay is a corpse. Maybe a minor league contract at best.

 

He absolutely would get a minor league contract, but giving him one is still a great idea. Two concussions may have killed his career, but you never know-- he hit 36 home runs here in 2009. No one else has hit that many since Ortiz in 2006, or Manny in 2005.

[bubbakeg52]

I'll take Melky over Bay, Ross, Hunter and Victorino....He is probably about 5 mil a year and 28 yrs old

[rjortiz]

If you think LH batters are weak in Fenway Park, then you don't like LaRoche.. is that right RJORTIZ

 

LaRoche has considerably more power than Pierzynski, but no, I don't want LaRoche. He's not a horrible fit, though.

[rjortiz]

He absolutely would get a minor league contract, but giving him one is still a great idea. Two concussions may have killed his career, but you never know-- he hit 36 home runs here in 2009. No one else has hit that many since Ortiz in 2006, or Manny in 2005.

 

That was four years ago. Aaron Hill hit 36 HR's that year. Give him a minor league deal, I don't care, but it's not a great idea.

[Palodios]

He absolutely would get a minor league contract, but giving him one is still a great idea. Two concussions may have killed his career, but you never know-- he hit 36 home runs here in 2009. No one else has hit that many since Ortiz in 2006, or Manny in 2005.

 

That was four years ago. Aaron Hill hit 36 HR's that year. Give him a minor league deal, I don't care, but it's not a great idea.

 

[mvp 78]

 

Maybe Bay would like Pawtucket as much as Manny did?

[SoxSport]

The Yankees want Napoli to catch. The Red Sox want Napoli to play 1B. Napoli prefers to catch, but he should prefer to hit in Fenway. So it boils down to money--natch.

[SoxSport]

Their major need in pitching is to have the current bunch pitching up to their abilities. I don't know if they need any expensive additions. I do think they have to restructure the bullpen--Bard has to recover his setup ability and Bailey has to avoid being hit by a bus. I'd like to see that kid DeLaRosa given every chance to be the 5th starter--under Pedro's tutelage.

[Station 13]

The Yankees want Napoli to catch. The Red Sox want Napoli to play 1B. Napoli prefers to catch, but he should prefer to hit in Fenway. So it boils down to money--natch.

 

sure they do for the next 3 year.

[a700hitter]

Here is my opinion on what the Sox need to have a competitive team next season in order. Of importance:

 

2 Starting Pitchers (1 will no be enough)

1 OFer (2 if Ross signs elsewhere)

1 power bullpen arm capable of closing when Bailey gets injured.

1 First baseman (maybe a lefty to platoon with Gomez)

 

 

The starting pitching is the most criitical. If they only get 1 pitcher, it will be a 4th place team at best, unless that pitcher is King Felix.

[Orange Juiced]

Here is my opinion on what the Sox need to have a competitive team next season in order. Of importance:

 

2 Starting Pitchers (1 will no be enough)

1 OFer (2 if Ross signs elsewhere)

1 power bullpen arm capable of closing when Bailey gets injured.

1 First baseman (maybe a lefty to platoon with Gomez)

 

 

The starting pitching is the most criitical. If they only get 1 pitcher, it will be a 4th place team at best, unless that pitcher is King Felix.

 

This is a good list. I think that the power bullpen arm *could* be in-house in Daniel Bard. Obviously, we all know he has the ability. From 2010-11 he was one of the most dominant setup guys in the sport, so we know he can do it. It's just a question of whether he gets his head screwed on straight, and I'm really hoping that Farrell can help solve his problems.

 

As far as the first point goes (SP), is this unreasonable?....

 

- Lester, under Farrell, reverts back to typical Lester form (from 2008-11 he averaged 203 ip, a 16-8 record, and a 3.33 era)

 

- Buchholz simply stays healthy for a whole year and puts up numbers like he did from May through the end of the year: 3.41 era, 1.12 whip

 

- Lackey returns from TJ surgery and is the Lackey of 2010, not 2011, and puts up a line of 215 ip, 14-11, 4.40 era

 

- Doubront, as a now 25-year old, improves on last year's 11-10, 4.86 line and puts up a 13 win, 4.50 line

 

- And they add one other good starter, like Anibal Sanchez, for example.

 

If that happens, is that a pitching rotation that can compete in the AL East? I know there are a bunch of "ifs" there, but how many of them are unreasonable or unrealistic? It would give them a really good 1-2 punch (again, assuming those numbers above are what they do), Sanchez should be a solid #3, and two guys that win double-digit games with essentially league-average ERAs in the #4 and #5 spots is pretty good.

[a700hitter]

This is a good list. I think that the power bullpen arm *could* be in-house in Daniel Bard. Obviously, we all know he has the ability. From 2010-11 he was one of the most dominant setup guys in the sport, so we know he can do it. It's just a question of whether he gets his head screwed on straight, and I'm really hoping that Farrell can help solve his problems.

 

As far as the first point goes (SP), is this unreasonable?....

 

- Lester, under Farrell, reverts back to typical Lester form (from 2008-11 he averaged 203 ip, a 16-8 record, and a 3.33 era)

 

- Buchholz simply stays healthy for a whole year and puts up numbers like he did from May through the end of the year: 3.41 era, 1.12 whip

 

- Lackey returns from TJ surgery and is the Lackey of 2010, not 2011, and puts up a line of 215 ip, 14-11, 4.40 era

 

- Doubront, as a now 25-year old, improves on last year's 11-10, 4.86 line and puts up a 13 win, 4.50 line

 

- And they add one other good starter, like Anibal Sanchez, for example.

 

If that happens, is that a pitching rotation that can compete in the AL East? I know there are a bunch of "ifs" there, but how many of them are unreasonable or unrealistic? It would give them a really good 1-2 punch (again, assuming those numbers above are what they do), Sanchez should be a solid #3, and two guys that win double-digit games with essentially league-average ERAs in the #4 and #5 spots is pretty good.

I firmly believe that 1 pitcher will not fix our situation, no matter what Farrell can do.

[Orange Juiced]

I firmly believe that 1 pitcher will not fix our situation, no matter what Farrell can do.

 

You may very well be right. But go to the starting pitcher list I gave. Are those things unreasonable expectations? If so, which ones are unreasonable? (maybe all of them are, I don't know) But if they're not unreasonable, is that starting staff, as described, not sufficient for the Red Sox to compete in the AL East?

[Bellhorn04]

You may very well be right. But go to the starting pitcher list I gave. Are those things unreasonable expectations? If so, which ones are unreasonable? (maybe all of them are, I don't know) But if they're not unreasonable, is that starting staff, as described, not sufficient for the Red Sox to compete in the AL East?

 

We have to keep in mind that the 2012 starters compiled an ERA of 5.19, the highest in franchise history.

[a700hitter]

You may very well be right. But go to the starting pitcher list I gave. Are those things unreasonable expectations? If so, which ones are unreasonable? (maybe all of them are, I don't know) But if they're not unreasonable, is that starting staff, as described, not sufficient for the Red Sox to compete in the AL East?

The Nationals added 2 pitchers to their starting staff in the last off season. I see no reason why the Sox can't do the same through trade and/or free agency. I do not think that the current staff with one addition will be enough to compete.

[Station 13]

unless they trade Lackey or someone, they have 1 SP spot to fill.

[a700hitter]

unless they trade Lackey or someone, they have 1 SP spot to fill.

I would let Lackey and Doubront battle for the 5th spot. The other guy would be a long reliever/depth starter.

[NativeBostonian]

He absolutely would get a minor league contract, but giving him one is still a great idea. Two concussions may have killed his career, but you never know-- he hit 36 home runs here in 2009. No one else has hit that many since Ortiz in 2006, or Manny in 2005.

 

That's why I think it would be a good idea to give him a shot. He isn't going to cost anything and he did well in 2009 when he was in a Red Sox uniform. What is it going to hurt to see what he can do in ST?

[Station 13]

I would let Lackey and Doubront battle for the 5th spot. The other guy would be a long reliever/depth starter.

 

It wouldn't be Doubront though. He shown he can get hitters out and had a high K/9. He's lefty too. He just need consistency. Throwing strikes can evade him for an inning and he blows up.

 

I would deal Lackey back to the Angels if they take him. Or send him to the NL west (SD?).

 

The Angels need a couple of starters. They either have to get Grienke or Sanchez or get left with just Weaver and Wilson.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Marlins are shopping everyone. Literally.

 

 

The Sox should be 110% in on Mike Stanton. And they should also look to see if they can acquire Jose Reyes.

[jung]

It is not an unreasonable list of expectations just an unlikely list. There is not a single arm in the Sox rotation that you could rely on to meet his expectation. They are all a list of question marks. As much as I like Buch, I would actually consider Lester resolving his mechanical issues, taming his temper and returning to form more likely than Buch giving us 30+ starts and 200 innings. That I would consider Lester's chances better is pretty telling when you consider how much work a pitcher has to do to fully resolve issues of mechanics. Doubront may or may not be ready to step up. It they don't ask more of him than to be a 5, that would seem a reasonable expectation for him. As for Lackey, coming back from TJ is a complete roll of the dice especially in the first year back. In the case of the Sox, they are going to end up relying on Lackey to come back and be effective. How did that work out for us with dice last year?

 

I actually think the Sox will need two solid arms coming into the rotation so that the Sox would not be relying so much on question marks to come through in the rotation. Looking at the list of Lester, Lackey, Buch and Felix, I think Felix is the most likely to meet expectations as a 5 mainly because expectations are pretty low. However that sort of stuff takes us back to last year where for a period of time, before one of them went bust and the other finally just tired, the "bright spots" of our rotation were 4 and 5. Happy to have Felix work out as our 5 in 2013 but if any of the other question marks fall the other way, Felix working out as the 5 will be small conciliation.

 

In fact, they are really in sort of a spot with Felix. He has to start to be effective. We already went through this question last year. The Sox can't just dump him into the bullpen for a spell and he is out of options. So if they do bring in two arms they don't have a place to put Felix except as a 6th starter. Do they give up on Felix or does his predicament take the Sox even closer to the other option.....try to compete without resolving all of the starting pitching issues this team has in one off season and just bring in one arm for the rotation. That would allow them to continue to work with Felix to see if he can continue to improve. That said, many posters here do not think he will ever even be a 3 for a competing staff. So maybe Felix is not worth the effort.

[Orange Juiced]

Marlins are shopping everyone. Literally.

 

 

The Sox should be 110% in on Mike Stanton. And they should also look to see if they can acquire Jose Reyes.

 

I shudder to think what the asking price would be for Stanton. The dude is *ridiculous* and in Fenway he would threaten the 50-hr mark annually. Here are his career numbers:

 

2010 (20) - 359 ab, 22 hr, 59 rbi, .259/.326/.507/.833, 118 ops+

2011 (21) - 516 ab, 34 hr, 87 rbi, .262/.356/.537/.893, 141 ops+

2012 (22) - 449 ab, 37 hr, 86 rbi, .290/.361/.608/.969, 158 ops+

 

Sick, sick numbers for a freaking *22* year old. But if Florida is selling, and Boston has a gaping hole in SP, OF and SS, the Sox could potentially be a landing spot for a triple combo platter mega-trade. What about this:

 

Sox give:

Bogaerts, De La Rosa, Barnes, Bradley, Bard (if Fla likes him; if not, Ranaudo or Workman), and Doubront

 

Sox get:

Reyes, Stanton, Johnson

 

The Sox end up adding a ton of payroll:

 

Reyes:

2013 - $10m

2014 - $16m

2015 - $22m

2016 - $22m

2017 - $22m

2018 - option

 

Johnson

2013 - $13.8m

 

Stanton - peanuts for a while - won't be a FA until 2018

 

But wow. The Sox would add a really good SP, an absolute monster masher in LF at good dollars for years, and a legit SS. I don't like Reyes' contract, obviously, but with Iglesias' very weak bat and Bogaerts maybe not ending up at SS, it would fill a big need. Yes, they're giving up their best prospects in this hypothetical deal, but still. They have the money available now to make such a move. I think this is the kind of deal they should consider trying to make, even at such a steep cost in prospects.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I shudder to think what the asking price would be for Stanton. The dude is *ridiculous* and in Fenway he would threaten the 50-hr mark annually. Here are his career numbers:

 

2010 (20) - 359 ab, 22 hr, 59 rbi, .259/.326/.507/.833, 118 ops+

2011 (21) - 516 ab, 34 hr, 87 rbi, .262/.356/.537/.893, 141 ops+

2012 (22) - 449 ab, 37 hr, 86 rbi, .290/.361/.608/.969, 158 ops+

 

Sick, sick numbers for a freaking *22* year old. But if Florida is selling, and Boston has a gaping hole in SP, OF and SS, the Sox could potentially be a landing spot for a triple combo platter mega-trade. What about this:

 

Sox give:

Bogaerts, De La Rosa, Barnes, Bradley, Bard (if Fla likes him; if not, Ranaudo or Workman), and Doubront

 

Sox get:

Reyes, Stanton, Johnson

 

The Sox end up adding a ton of payroll:

 

Reyes:

2013 - $10m

2014 - $16m

2015 - $22m

2016 - $22m

2017 - $22m

2018 - option

 

Johnson

2013 - $13.8m

 

Stanton - peanuts for a while - won't be a FA until 2018

 

But wow. The Sox would add a really good SP, an absolute monster masher in LF at good dollars for years, and a legit SS. I don't like Reyes' contract, obviously, but with Iglesias' very weak bat and Bogaerts maybe not ending up at SS, it would fill a big need. Yes, they're giving up their best prospects in this hypothetical deal, but still. They have the money available now to make such a move. I think this is the kind of deal they should consider trying to make, even at such a steep cost in prospects.

 

I think you'd have to give up Bradley, too. But regardless, that would put the Sox in contention for years and years.

 

What's even funnier is that the Sox could still afford to go out and sign a big name FA like Hamilton. I don't advocate it on a long term deal, just showing how much financial flexibility they'd have.

 

Realistically, though, I think they could get Reyes and Johnson.

[Orange Juiced]

I think you'd have to give up Bradley, too. But regardless, that would put the Sox in contention for years and years.

 

What's even funnier is that the Sox could still afford to go out and sign a big name FA like Hamilton. I don't advocate it on a long term deal, just showing how much financial flexibility they'd have.

 

Realistically, though, I think they could get Reyes and Johnson.

 

Lineup for 2013:

 

SS Reyes

2b Pedroia

CF Ellsbury

LF Stanton

DH Ortiz

3b Middlebrooks

1b Napoli

RF Ross/Kalish

C Ross/Lavarnway

 

SP - Johnson, Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Sanchez

 

That team would not only be able to merely "compete" in the AL East, it would instantly be the best team in the division.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Marlins are shopping everyone. Literally.

 

 

The Sox should be 110% in on Mike Stanton. And they should also look to see if they can acquire Jose Reyes.

 

Dear baseball gods, I don't ask for much but PLEASE let the Sox get Mike Stanton. I've went to multiple Marlins games and dude is a BEAST. I'm sure you all know that already.

[kapsis21]

Stanton isnt going anywhere until he hits FA. they need someone to blast HRs in that park without him their team and crowd support is going to crash beyond belief. if they let go Stanton Johnson and Reyes, it pretty much sums up their franchise, they learnt it hard from the Miggy trade. i dont think they will pull it twice

[SoxFanForsyth]

Looks like the Blue Jays have acquired Josh Johnson and Mark Buhrle, and potentially Reyes (early reports, unconfirmed).

 

Another 2 SP and an elite SS off the market that was available.

 

Not like we needed SS or SP

[a700hitter]

Looks like the Blue Jays have acquired Josh Johnson and Mark Buhrle, and potentially Reyes (early reports, unconfirmed).

 

Another 2 SP and an elite SS off the market that was available.

 

Not like we needed SS or SP

That should solidify last place for us. Cherington takes too long to act. Last off season he sat on his hands as every other team made significant moves. He's starting this off season the same way. His first move was a backup catcher. That was not exactly at the top of my list.