Is Buchholz an Ace?

[Palodios]

Is Buchholz an ace?

 

His start to this season sucked. It is what it is. But look at this last stretch of ten games:

 

7 IP, 2 ER

8 IP, 2 ER

9 IP, 0 ER

 

7 IP, 1 ER

6 IP, 5 ER

6.1 IP, 4 ER

8 IP, 1 ER

7 IP, 1 ER

8 IP, 2 ER

7 IP, 0 ER

9 IP, 0 ER

 

7.48 IP per game, 2.00 ERA.

 

Those are scary good numbers. He had a phenominal 2010, and even in his off year in 2011 he was pretty good for the games he pitched.

 

 

So, I'm curious. What do people think?

[Elktonnick]

Is Buccholz an ace?

 

His start to this season sucked. It is what it is. But look at this last stretch of ten games:

 

7 IP, 2 ER

8 IP, 2 ER

9 IP, 0 ER

 

7 IP, 1 ER

6 IP, 5 ER

6.1 IP, 4 ER

8 IP, 1 ER

7 IP, 1 ER

8 IP, 2 ER

7 IP, 0 ER

9 IP, 0 ER

 

7.48 IP per game, 2.00 ERA.

 

Those are scary good numbers. He had a phenominal 2010, and even in his off year in 2011 he was pretty good for the games he pitched.

 

 

So, I'm curious. What do people think?

 

Buccholtz was tremendous tonight but it was the Guardians not the Rangers, Angels or Yankees.

[bostonscrapper]

YEP, and Kelly Shoppach is a ZERO. I have never seen such a lazy approach since Manny decided not to "show up"

[Bellhorn04]

Oh man, ace is such an ill-defined term but people love to use it. I voted maybe. He has been studly the last couple of months.

[bostonscrapper]

whoops

[Emmz]

I think he's an ace if he can put in a lot of innings and stay healthy. He's certainly been an ace in that string of games.

[SemperFi Sox]

Hell no, too inconsistent.

[Bellhorn04]

Hell no' date=' too inconsistent.[/quote']

 

Not lately. May have been the back issues and the layoff messing him up the first part of the year.

[Emmz]

Yeah, that stretch is so inconsistent.

[jung]

He is the unquestioned Ace of this rotation even given the brevity of the period he has been this sharp. I would just not want to see us fool ourselves into thinking that makes him the Ace or the #1 of a true contending team. Buch is not as good as he has looked in the last several starts and is not as bad as he has looked at his worst.

 

Bring a true 1, someone that can hold down that spot for a contending team here and slot Buch in right behind him...find a 3 out of the remainder (lester, Felix, Frank, Lackey, Cook) and just like that you have a legit rotation that would be right up close to the best rotations for contending teams...just like that.

 

Just make sure that the guy you bring in is a 1 in the sense of being capable of leading the rotation and the pitching staff generally as well as pitching like one and you really have something.

[Palodios]

BTW the spelling' date=' Palodios. It's Buchholz, buddy.[/quote']

 

Oh no... I must have nicked the wrong key and copied and pasted it two more times. Check my previous posts-- I usually spell it correctled:lol:

[a700hitter]

I don't think we need to see more consistency. I think we need to see durability. An ace needs to put up 200 innings in a season. He is yet to do that, and he will not do it this season. Until he does it, he's not an ace.

[SemperFi Sox]

Yeah' date=' that stretch is so inconsistent. [/quote']

 

because that's what I meant right? I guess 10 games makes someone an ace nowadays.

[jung]

That is a good point 700. Durability at this point is probably the more appropriate term although when he is forced to these DL stints, he must fight his way back and it does then become consistency again when viewing his career in total. You really do have to be durable to be consistent. Hard to imagine that a pitcher who is not durable will be none the less, consistent.

 

The top three guys and surely without question the top two guys on a staff must pull down at least 200 innings each. If you don't get major innings out of those top two or three guys, your bull pen does not stand a chance of surviving. This is two years running that we have toasted our bull pen. Just another facet of the problem with the starters. I think last year the pen was toast by the end of August. This year the pen is toast at the beginning of August. Two different managers...two different ways of handling pitchers...same result...toasted bull pen.

 

I do still think Buch is the Ace of this staff for this year if folks are insistent on applying that term to somebody on this team. That is not saying much though. It is almost unfair to Buch. He has simply turned into a very good pitcher for this period this year and is far and away the most promising player story on this team right now.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Buccholtz was tremendous tonight but it was the Guardians not the Rangers' date=' Angels or Yankees.[/quote']

 

But he did go 7 IP, 1 ER vs the Rangers.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

because that's what I meant right? I guess 10 games makes someone an ace nowadays.

 

You can never seem to be happy about any of our players man, just chill. He's going on a nice stretch and he's currently our best SP winning us games, which seem to be hard for our rotation to do. Why take it away from him whether it be 10 or 30 games?

[lospunchados]

Buccholz is a number one pitcher. There are right now maybe, five Aces in the AL Verlander, Hernandez, Weaver, Price and Sabathia ( though Sabathia hasn't been fantastic this year, but still belongs on the list). They have been fantastic for multiple years and dominate teams. If Peavey stays healthy and does it again next year he belongs too.

 

Buccholz definitly has the potential to join them he needs to stay healthy and consistent.

[Emmz]

I don't think we need to see more consistency. I think we need to see durability. An ace needs to put up 200 innings in a season. He is yet to do that' date=' and he will not do it this season. Until he does it, he's not an ace.[/quote']

 

Exactly what I think. As I said in my first post, he needs to be durable. He pitches like an ace when he's there, but he needs to pitch 200+.

[jacksonianmarch]

a700 is right. An ace is durable, dominant and shows longevity. Also, an ace doesn't just dominate for parts of seasons, he dominates the whole yr. Buch has been great since May, but having said caveat and no season of 200IP solidifies the fact that he's not an ace.... Yet

[Emmz]

He's returning from injury early, after such a long time off, I'm not shocked he started poorly. Aces can struggle for periods, too. Buchholz has all of the qualities of an ace aside from durability. I think Jacko's just trying to criticize his consistency without saying the word consistency. Typical subtle ********. Laughable for a guy calling Hughes "like an ace" for a much less impressive string.

[mvp 78]

s***, I don't remember Pedro struggling the way Buchholz did.

 

Not an ace. At best he's a 2.

 

People calling him an ace are the same who defended Lackey. Take the blinders off.

[Emmz]

No they aren't. No one I can remember was defending Lackey's poor performance. Maybe a few who realized he wasn't that bad in 2010, but no one defended him in 2011.

 

He's been an ace lately, and Pedro never struggled like that because, for one, he is probably the best pitcher to ever take the mound in his prime. That, and I don't remember him having as many months off as Buchholz had after the injury.

 

He continues to pitch like this and he's an ace.

[SoxFanForsyth]

s***, I don't remember Pedro struggling the way Buchholz did.

 

Not an ace. At best he's a 2.

 

People calling him an ace are the same who defended Lackey. Take the blinders off.

 

Pedro had a span of 4 games in 1998 where he allowed 23 ER in 24 IP, for an 8.63 ERA during that span. So, 2 fewer games than Buchholz had. Pedro also had 5 games that season in which he allowed 5 ER or more. Is that really going to be your justification for Buchholz being "at best a 2"? Because of the distribution of the poorly pitched games, Buchholz is not an ace?

 

I'm not saying that Buchholz is definitively an ace, but he certainly is trending in that direction, and if he can continue throw like he had been throwing, he is an ace.

[BornToRun]

I certainly think he's on his way but I'd like to see him put it together for a full season in 2013 before making that call.

[Bellhorn04]

s***, I don't remember Pedro struggling the way Buchholz did.

 

Not an ace. At best he's a 2.

 

People calling him an ace are the same who defended Lackey. Take the blinders off.

 

Pedro's one of the best pitchers in history. Is that what you have to be to be an ace? That's why I have a problem with the term itself. There's no actual objective definition of what it means.

[3rdManOut]

I know we are all tough on our pitchers but as of right now I would put Buccholz in the ace position. Out of all of them he has been the most consistent. How can any of us defend the other pitchers with their performances? Buccholz seems to be getting it together. Its a hell of alot more then I can say for almost anyone else on this team.

[jung]

Well I think people are dividing the question between where Buch would be in a contending rotation and where he is in this rotation. There can't be any question where he belongs in this rotation but this is not a rotation contending for anything other than trying to stay out of the basement.

[3rdManOut]

Well I think people are dividing the question between where Buch would be in a contending rotation and where he is in this rotation. There can't be any question where he belongs in this rotation but this is not a rotation contending for anything other than trying to stay out of the basement.

 

Thats a very good point.

[Spitball]

In my opinion, it is too early to call Buccholz an ace. For many fans, an ace must be dominant and pitch deeply into games for an extended period of time.

 

There is a difference between the number one pitcher on the staff and a true ace. In the AL, I see Verlander, Weaver, Hernandez, Sabathia, and possibly Price as the only true aces.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Like I said earlier, at this moment, I would throw Buchholz against any offense and against any pitcher and feel confident that we had a very good chance at winning any game. The Red Sox are 13-7 in games pitched by Buchholz this season (10-4 in games after that dreadful start).

 

In his last 11 starts, he's got a 2.08 ERA. Since the ASB, he's got a 1.79 ERA. He's been nothing short of fantastic. Again, if he continues this trend, he's an ace. And if he's the pitcher that we've seen recently, that takes a huge burden off of the Red Sox this offseason because they will be able to go out and get a #3 pitcher rather than having to go out and get an ace.