Nava LF, Kalish CF, Ross RF

[Dojji]

I really like this alignment. This is probably the best one we have until Crawford and Ellsbury return. V, you've just seen the recipe for success right there, at least in the short term. Here's hoping you recognized it for what it was.

[Palodios]

I get the feeling that Kalish may not have been ready for the majors yet. A .273 OBP so far leaves me a skeptic.

[Dojji]

Ehh, it's early. SSS you know. I do agree in principle, but he's still as good a gamble as anyone else we could run out there right now.

[SoxSport]

Nava-Ross-Kalish-CC-Ells. Don't have to go any further.

[Dojji]

When the wounded duo return, I would send Kalish down actually. He needs reps by the looks of things, and he'll have a hard time getting them in Boston. Left to right, Crawford, Ellsbury and Ross, with Nava and Sweeney as backups. Although I think that Nava can give CC a run for it, bloated contract and all.

[SoxSport]

Don't be surprised if Ells gets traded--for a prime starter.

[Dojji]

Surprised? Heck, at this point it's probably the right move. He'll be back on his feet by the deadline, let him get out there and run around and see who wants a CF who can do what he's capable of.

[Marty McFly]

Don't be surprised if Ells gets traded--for a prime starter.

 

I think that would be a terrible move. Let's be honest, the Sox aren't going anywhere this year. They might get a wild card spot, but we aren't a starting pitcher away from being a championship caliber team.

 

Ellsbury was a legit MVP candidate last season (probably should have won it). You don't trade someone like that for a guy that only plays every 5 days.

[jung]

Well I have not really even thought about this but the Sox have a huge problem when it comes to Ells that is not going away. They really can't justify paying Ells and CC and in any contract negotiation going forward Ells will just be able to shove CC's contract right down the Sox throat. If CC is getting $21M per year from the Sox what do the Sox have to pay for Ells based on the value represented by those two players? Do they have to pay $24M per for Ells. Do we really think the Sox are going to pay $45M per year to nail down two outfield positions? I don't see it. Yet the Sox have no way out from under the CC contract and Ells has no reason to give the Sox some sort of home town discount or anything like that. If anything he may prefer to go elsewhere.

 

So trading Ells may not be as far fetched as all that regardless of what chances we have at a championship. It is the last of the ignominious remains from the CC deal.

[NativeBostonian]

Don't be surprised if Ells gets traded--for a prime starter.

 

That's crazy. Why would you trade a star in his prime?

[Palodios]

That's crazy. Why would you trade a star in his prime?

 

Ellsbury is not coming back to Boston in 2014, that's why.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I think that would be a terrible move. Let's be honest, the Sox aren't going anywhere this year. They might get a wild card spot, but we aren't a starting pitcher away from being a championship caliber team.

 

Ellsbury was a legit MVP candidate last season (probably should have won it). You don't trade someone like that for a guy that only plays every 5 days.

 

Completely off topic, but you should post more. The username and avatar? Thumbs up.

[jung]

Why trade him...cause the Sox have no way to get him back into a Sox uniform at the end of his current contract. The cost of the CC contract creates the utter lunacy of paying upwards of $45M per year just for two outfield positions.

 

This is particularly true as it becomes more and more obvious that post the steroid era ML baseball regresses back to a game even more dependent on pitching and defense.

 

If it plays out this way losing Ells ends up being the final payment for the stupidity of the CC deal.

[AGomREDSOX15]

Ellsbury is good and all but lets not forget he just had one really good season the other seasons were average we don't even know if he can produce like he did last yr. But he still is a good CF and Leadoff hitter I'll let em walk come 2013

[jung]

I'll let em walk come 2013

 

Let him walk as in trade in another 1.5 years of his services and get nothing for him at the end of that? That is why trading him might well make some sense. The Sox are boxed every which way there is on Ells. If they let him play out his contract they get nothing for him. That makes less sense than anything.

 

Granted they made this mess for themselves. It makes JH's comments about the role he had to play in this even more stupendous. Ultimately I do think the Sox are left with no choice but to trade Ells and get the most they can for him. I just don't think Ells and more importantly his agent will leave them with an option.

[Dojji]

I'm not as convinced as some of you are that Ellsbury wants out. The people who are making up their minds that he's gone are doing so based on a combination of guesswork and paranoia. They're following a chain of logic that has some decidedly weak links.

 

What the Sox really need to do if they want to keep Ellsbury though, is to stop dipping their toes in the water when it comes to the obvious need for a generational changing of the goard on this team, and dive in headfirst. Move some of these compacent elder statesmen and replace them with fresh young faces desperate to prove themselves. Every time you replace complacency with hunger, your team gets better, or at least becomes a little more than the sum of its parts.

 

Right now this team is less than the sum of its parts, and the prescribed remedy is new blood.

[jung]

Whether Ells wants to stay or not is at the bottom of the list of issues relative to keeping him. The Sox have no way out of the CC contract and can't be expected to allocate over $45M just to hold down two outfield positions. Unfortunately, CC has the money Ells should have and then some.

 

The Sox should get younger. One of the biggest problems it has is the imbalance between long term big money contract players and cost controlled players. Ells is a bargain at the moment. CC is a rip off and from a practical perspective is being so grossly overpaid that he will likely never be able to provide the Sox with enough performance to make his contract even remotely paletable, particularly since his first year was a bust and he has yet to take the field in his second year of what is a seven year deal.

 

However what may be the worst thing about CC's contract is that it is the first and last thing that Ells famously tough agent will bring to the table in any negotiation with the Sox for Ells services.

[SoxSport]

I doubt they can afford Ellsbury. Not with Boras as his agent and all their other ill-conceived mega-signings. He looks tradeable unless they can unload CC. I don't think they can afford to keep both.

[mvp 78]

I doubt they can afford Ellsbury. Not with Boras as his agent and all their other ill-conceived mega-signings. He looks tradeable unless they can unload CC. I don't think they can afford to keep both.

 

Well, get rid of DiceK, Youk, and Ortiz salaries and they can afford to resign him.

[kapsis21]

I doubt they can afford Ellsbury. Not with Boras as his agent and all their other ill-conceived mega-signings. He looks tradeable unless they can unload CC. I don't think they can afford to keep both.

 

i just fear the f***ing yankees will pick him.

[jung]

The Yankees might pick him. Who knows....some deals (in this case the CC deal) are so bad that it takes years to get over them.

 

As I stated above, every word JH uttered on the topic of the CC signing was worth a chuckle at least. For long term ramifications, the CC signing makes the Lackey signing look like a stroke of genius.

 

Offering Ortiz arbitration was another real boneheaded move. The Sox could have had Ortiz wrapped up for two years at reasonable money and had some money left to sign some additional pitching. That arbitration offer ended up having ramifications but they are relatively short term when you compare them to the CC signing.

[mvp 78]

Let's say they saved $6M on the Ortiz signing. Which FA SP was signing for $6M?

[a700hitter]

Let's say they saved $6M on the Ortiz signing. Which FA SP was signing for $6M?

Why would they be limited to exactly $6 million?

[Bellhorn04]

Ellsbury is a goner...that is one of the safer assumptions on player movement you could possibly make about this team.

[Dojji]

Why would they be limited to exactly $6 million?

 

Because the team isn't comfortable with a payroll this high?

[a700hitter]

Because the team isn't comfortable with a payroll this high?

They were comfortable making $5 million offers to pitchers in the off season. If they had saved $5 or $6 million on Ortiz, they could have increased those offers.

[Bellhorn04]

They were comfortable making $5 million offers to pitchers in the off season. If they had saved $5 or $6 million on Ortiz' date=' they could have increased those offers.[/quote']

 

Ortiz was coming off a year in which he made 12.5 million and had a .953 OPS. How much do you think they could have signed him for, realistically?

[FredLynn]

I think that would be a terrible move. Let's be honest, the Sox aren't going anywhere this year. They might get a wild card spot, but we aren't a starting pitcher away from being a championship caliber team.

 

Ellsbury was a legit MVP candidate last season (probably should have won it). You don't trade someone like that for a guy that only plays every 5 days.

 

Its not for THIS year McFly. Ellsbury is likely gone when his contract is up anyway. And of we aren't going anywhere this year, then why not plan for next year and the year after that? The only caveat is that we would need a good SP who is under our control for at least a couple of years, and that won't be easy.

[a700hitter]

Ortiz was coming off a year in which he made 12.5 million and had a .953 OPS. How much do you think they could have signed him for' date=' realistically?[/quote']I think $10 million for one year was very realistic, taking into account that he had no market and also taking into account that last year's $12.5 million was also inflated and over-priced by the arbitration process.

[Bellhorn04]

I think $10 million for one year was very realistic' date=' taking into account that he had no market and also taking into account that last year's $12.5 million was also inflated and over-priced by the arbitration process.[/quote']

 

No market? How can you be so sure. A clear-eyed realist such as yourself must concede the possibility that some jackass FO out there wouldn't mind grabbing themselves a David Ortiz for more than $10 million. I mean the White Sox gave Adam Dunn $56 million for 4 years and by rights he should be a DH.