Nava LF, Kalish CF, Ross RF

[a700hitter]

No market? How can you be so sure. A clear-eyed realist such as yourself must concede the possibility that some jackass FO out there wouldn't mind grabbing themselves a David Ortiz for more than $10 million. I mean the White Sox gave Adam Dunn $56 million for 4 years and by rights he should be a DH.

All the big market teams either had DH's or wanted the DH position to rotate among a few aging position players. There were no big market teams willing o invest in an aging dedicated DH. There was a lot of discussion about it during the off season, and Ortiz had time before arb was offered and before the deadline for accepting to shop himself. He came up with nothing. Am I certain, that no one would have made him an offer? No, but I think it would have been a very safe bet. I didn't see any team that had the resources and the need for him.

 

The Dunn example does not help your argument. It hurts it, because the White Sox after signing Dunn, were another big market team with no need for Ortiz.

[redsoxbeatz]

give Ellsbury a lincecum-type deal and then re-sign him again afterwards.

 

a boy made of glass shouldn't be worth so much.

 

CC didn't have too much injury prior to the mega signing only once signed did he break.

 

Ells breaks and breaks again and he's still a baby.

 

But if we could get a SP... I mean, that is clearly what we need. This offense with or without Ellsbury is extremely potent -- Sox lead the majors scoring 10+ runs this season @ 11 times -- and is doing it currently w/o the help of Ellsbury (or CC). SP is what we need!!

[Bellhorn04]

All the big market teams either had DH's or wanted the DH position to rotate among a few aging position players. There were no big market teams willing o invest in an aging dedicated DH. There was a lot of discussion about it during the off season, and Ortiz had time before arb was offered and before the deadline for accepting to shop himself. He came up with nothing. Am I certain, that no one would have made him an offer? No, but I think it would have been a very safe bet. I didn't see any team that had the resources and the need for him.

 

The Dunn example does not help your argument. It hurts it, because the White Sox after signing Dunn, were another big market team with no need for Ortiz.

 

The Tigers could have been extremely interested in a one-year deal when VMart went down. That's an example of unforeseen s*** coming along to change everything. All you need is one team out there.

[a700hitter]

The Tigers could have been extremely interested in a one-year deal when VMart went down. That's an example of unforeseen s*** coming along to change everything. All you need is one team out there.

True, but Ortiz would have had to sit and wait until late January early February for such a situation to develop. If he was a free agent, when that happened, the presence of Fielder would have depressed Ortiz market and vice versa, so we don't know how that would turn out. The fact is that Ortiz had plenty of time to generate interest by other teams. He did not. If the Sox had not offered arb, they could have locked him up for 2 years for $18 million. I think that would have bee a reasonable number considering he had no higher offers from other teams.

[a700hitter]

Ellsbury is a goner...that is one of the safer assumptions on player movement you could possibly make about this team.

A lot of people wanted to trade Ellsbury for Lincecum who is looking like a shot pitcher at this point.

[jung]

We had some discussions on this board about Lincecum and that whipping action he used to throw the ball. How he really did leverage his arm against his body in order to generate velocity and whether he could continue to do that for long at his size. Now I wonder if in fact he really can't do that for very much longer.

 

The other discussion that is sort of league wide at the moment is how hard guys throw right from the very start of their ML careers and whether or not they can really do that. Should be interesting to watch.

[Bellhorn04]

True' date=' but Ortiz would have had to sit and wait until late January early February for such a situation to develop. If he was a free agent, when that happened, the presence of Fielder would have depressed Ortiz market and vice versa, so we don't know how that would turn out. The fact is that Ortiz had plenty of time to generate interest by other teams. He did not. If the Sox had not offered arb, they could have locked him up for 2 years for $18 million. I think that would have bee a reasonable number considering he had no higher offers from other teams.[/quote']

 

I wouldn't say it's not a reasonable offer. But Ortiz might have said 'Screw you guys, after all I've done for this team, you lowball me like that...I'll see what I can get elsewhere'. There's just no way for us to sit here and say for sure what would have happened if they had tried to push that on him.

[a700hitter]

I wouldn't say it's not a reasonable offer. But Ortiz might have said 'Screw you guys' date=' after all I've done for this team, you lowball me like that...I'll see what I can get elsewhere'. There's just no way for us to sit here and say for sure what would have happened if they had tried to push that on him.[/quote']We do know that he had no substantial offers from other teams. No team was going to give him more than $14.5 million IMO, so we over-paid. It's as simple as that.

[Bellhorn04]

We do know that he had no substantial offers from other teams. No team was going to give him more than $14.5 million IMO' date=' so we over-paid. It's as simple as that.[/quote']

 

OK...except that over-paying includes over-paying by $1 million, which is a quite a bit different from the $5 or $6 million you suggested.

[a700hitter]

OK...except that over-paying includes over-paying by $1 million' date=' which is a quite a bit different from the $5 or $6 million you suggested.[/quote']I firmly believe that the Sox overpaid him by $4- 5 million. They couldn't have done worse than they did, but they locked themselves into an artificial process which takes into account length of service, past pay etc. They never gave themselves the chance. I think they cost themselves significant savings.

[NativeBostonian]

give Ellsbury a lincecum-type deal and then re-sign him again afterwards.

 

a boy made of glass shouldn't be worth so much.

 

CC didn't have too much injury prior to the mega signing only once signed did he break.

 

Ells breaks and breaks again and he's still a baby.

 

But if we could get a SP... I mean, that is clearly what we need. This offense with or without Ellsbury is extremely potent -- Sox lead the majors scoring 10+ runs this season @ 11 times -- and is doing it currently w/o the help of Ellsbury (or CC). SP is what we need!!

 

I agree; with his injury history, he isn't going to get CC money on the market.

[Marty McFly]

Its not for THIS year McFly. Ellsbury is likely gone when his contract is up anyway. And of we aren't going anywhere this year' date=' then why not plan for next year and the year after that? The only caveat is that we would need a good SP who is under our control for at least a couple of years, and that won't be easy.[/quote']

 

I understand that, but I think people are going overboard on how much money Ellsbury is going to get as a free agent. He's got a bit of a soft reputation when it comes to staying healthy and recovering from injuries, and he really only has one elite season to hang his hat on.

 

We'll see how he plays when he finally hits this field this season. If he returns to form and has a huge second half, you guys may be right about his contract.

[DirtDog]

sox aren't signing ellsbury. no way. they have too much resources tied up with other players. AND the sell out streak is ending soon. paid 5 dollars to get in the park yesterday. pretty soon the ticket market will dry up when fans sniff out this ownership's ********