6/9 Nationals vs Red Sox

[Cocos Disciples]

Hey can we absolutely not turn this into a religious/evolution thing? Ever? Cool.

[VA Sox Fan]

Cut the crap Poopsie ,

Your NOT a Red Sox fan so get lost .

 

No one likes him. But he likes himself so much, he doesn't care.

[FredLynn]

I can't expand your mind for you. You've chosen to ignore more relevant stats and stick with outdated methods of player evaluation. Your position is that a bad play by Aviles and some good luck for the Nats means Daisuke sucked. He had no control over either of those things. The only thing you can be 100% certain was his fault was the home run.

 

He has an 8.00 k/bb today. That's the definition of dominance. Call it laughable if you want, but you're wrong. There's really no debate here.

 

Nope. No debate. You think that allowing four runs in five innings represents "dominance", and I say he sucked for doing that, especially against a popgun offense like the Nats. Did DiceK dominate Moore when he hit that ground rule double? I suppose that was pure luck. And Aviles wasn't given an error on his play, was he? Even if he knocks that down, he has no play. And I suppose Desmond's single driving in two runs was just luck too.

What is laughable is not the K/BB ratio, its your arguement that this abortion represents dominance. You are wrong, plain and simple.

[VA Sox Fan]

Hey can we absolutely not turn this into a religious/evolution thing? Ever? Cool.

 

The dude from Isreal started that non-sense.

[VA Sox Fan]

Gonzo robbed again by a great catch.

[redsoxrules]

Unreal , can't catch a break

[VA Sox Fan]

Come ON Papi, cut their lead in half!

[evilhand]

Hey can we absolutely not turn this into a religious/evolution thing? Ever? Cool.

 

No problem. Won't go there again.

[VA Sox Fan]

DAMMIT!!!!

[FredLynn]

Unreal ' date=' can't catch a break[/quote']

 

We got a break when Stonefingers Laroche booted Mighty Mouth's ground ball. But we didn't take advantage of it.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Man. We're in a big slump with RISP right now.

[jung]

Well that was not much of a bid for a base hit by Agons....more of a nothing that died on the edge of the grass.

 

Not sure why Ortiz could not pull the trigger on that 1-1 pitch. He loves pitches there. Once Gio had him 1-2 here came the breaking stuff.

[evilhand]

Nope. No debate. You think that allowing four runs in five innings represents "dominance", and I say he sucked for doing that, especially against a popgun offense like the Nats. Did DiceK dominate Moore when he hit that ground rule double? I suppose that was pure luck. And Aviles wasn't given an error on his play, was he? Even if he knocks that down, he has no play. And I suppose Desmond's single driving in two runs was just luck too.

What is laughable is not the K/BB ratio, its your arguement that this abortion represents dominance. You are wrong, plain and simple.

 

Bad luck on balls in play does not mean every bit of contact was unlucky. It means there was bad luck on the whole.

 

Have fun beating up that strawman, though. You're landing some huge body blows.

[redsoxrules]

We got a break when Stonefingers Laroche booted Mighty Mouth's ground ball. But we didn't take advantage of it.

 

Sorry but you don't play for the Red Sox

[FredLynn]

Man. We're in a big slump with RISP right now.

 

Great pitching will do that to a team-it shuts down their offense. This is the model our FO needs to adopt-recognizing, securing, and adopting top flight pitching. Until they do that we will get this kind of team-mediocrity defined, or worse, and no playoffs. Our pitching has stunk for three years running now, and if we miss the playoffs again, that will again be the reason. When the other guys shut down our offense we need our pitchers to be able to do the same thing to them, and right now, they can't. They are not talented enough.

[Elktonnick]

A-Gon despite yesterday has looked pathetic at the plate. He hasn't drawn a walk in ages.

[mvp 78]

Seriously though, how'd DiceK look today?

[VA Sox Fan]

Sorry but you don't play for the Red Sox

 

Oh, but he does love his stupid fk'n nick-names for certain players. The Youk hate, some what understandable. But Pedroia? He's a broken record and a tool bag.

[FredLynn]

Bad luck on balls in play does not mean every bit of contact was unlucky. It means there was bad luck on the whole.

 

Have fun beating up that strawman, though. You're landing some huge body blows.

 

Usually you make sense, but this is absurd. Surrendering four earned runs on hard hit balls in five innings in no way represents even a good outing, let alone dominance by the pitcher. None of those hits were dribbler or bloops. They were all hard hit balls. Doesn't matter that three of those runs came in one inning. I don't think you will find many people who thing that DiceK's performance was dominant today, but it might make for an interesting poll.

[VA Sox Fan]

Seriously though' date=' how'd DiceK look today?[/quote']

 

Dude, I posted what he did inning by inning.

[Cocos Disciples]

Seriously though' date=' how'd DiceK look today?[/quote']

 

I thought he looked great through 3. 1 hit (HR) and 5 K. Fell apart in the 4th and gave up a few hard hit balls for 3 runs. Overall, he wasn't great but it was somewhat encouraging. Only 1 walk.

[evilhand]

Seriously though' date=' how'd DiceK look today?[/quote']

 

His off speed pitches were untouchable and he kept himself in the zone well enough to keep himself to 1 walk but his fastball probably caught too much of the plate and that led to some hard hit balls. Lot of bad luck, though. 4 ER in 5 IP with a .400 BABIP against, a 3.03 FIP, a 1.58 xFIP but a 7.20 ERA.

[FredLynn]

I thought he looked great through 3. 1 hit (HR) and 5 K. Fell apart in the 4th and gave up a few hard hit balls for 3 runs. Overall' date=' he wasn't great but it was somewhat encouraging. Only 1 walk.[/quote']

 

Was he dominant?

[jung]

I think to put dice in perspective you have to take into account that this is his first start back. In truth he did not control the other team's offense as weak as it is enough to prevent them from scoring four runs. If a team can string a walk and some base hits together they are likely to score on you.

[Cocos Disciples]

Was he dominant?

 

He was as dominant as you are insightful.

[VA Sox Fan]

2 strike outs for Dice K in the 1st. 3 up 3 down.

 

Dice K's 2nd' date=' solo HR, K, 4-3, F-8. Except for the HR hiccup, not too bad.[/quote']

 

Dice K's 3rd' date=' 2 K's, one looking, one swinging and 6-4. 3 up 3 down.[/quote']

 

Bad 4th for Dice-K:

 

BB, 1B, K, 2B, 1B, 9-4-3 double play (which was sweet and Agon made a great play)

 

Nats up 4-0

 

Bounce back 5th for Dice-K:

 

2B, K, F8, K. But his pitch count is getting up there.

 

Really need the offense to figure Gio out.

[FredLynn]

He was as dominant as you are insightful.

 

Cleverly avoiding the question.

I can live with "there were some positives about his performance, some things that were encouraging". Dominant? No way. Good? Nope.

No need to answer. You already did.

[mvp 78]

Dude' date=' I posted what he did inning by inning.[/quote']

 

I'm not reading the rest of this nonsense if a mod needed to step in.

[evilhand]

Usually you make sense' date=' but this is absurd. Surrendering four earned runs on hard hit balls in five innings in no way represents even a good outing, let alone dominance by the pitcher. None of those hits were dribbler or bloops. They were all hard hit balls. Doesn't matter that three of those runs came in one inning. I don't think you will find many people who thing that DiceK's performance was dominant today, but it might make for an interesting poll.[/quote']

 

I've laid out the argument for it clearly and simply. You've chosen to dismiss more advanced stats in favor of ERA and WHIP, and that's your right. We won't even come close to seeing eye to eye on pitching in most cases because you embrace an outdated approach that relies on how many runs are scored without considering what went into those runs scoring beyond the pitcher's effort.

 

Repeating the same thing over and over does no one any good (and I mean that for both of us, not just you) so I'm done talking to you about this today.

[Cocos Disciples]

Cleverly avoiding the question.

I can live with "there were some positives about his performance, some things that were encouraging". Dominant? No way. Good? Nope.

No need to answer. You already did.

 

Yep, I did. He wasn't dominant. I agree with you on this.