6/9 Nationals vs Red Sox

[VA Sox Fan]

Yeah. Just trying to get under our skin. No surprise.

 

In the good news front - Crawford is spraying line drives everywhere according to Pete Abe. Says he's closed his stance and has a real easy swing. Olney said he expects Crawford back before the end of the month. Also, Ellsbury has hit off a tee for 5 straight days and is coming along well. Kalish is 3-3 again today with ANOTHER homerun, and looks like the year off has only made him better.

 

Anyone who is pessimistic about this season just isn't paying attention.

 

That IS good news SFF! I'm keeping the faith. :thumbsup:

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Jacko this is the Boston Red Sox not the Pittsburgh Pirates. Stop overreacting seriously.

 

And come on man. I keep coming home to some ******** losses. Win some f***ing games.

[jung]

More Kalish types would do this team a world of good but I don't think we will see enough of them for enough time to really make a difference this season and then at least for this season this is still a pitching staff that is something of a collection of question marks. Buch is now solid (I hope) and Beckett is....well Beckett but Doubront is a 4 and will have a few outings when he pitches like one. Just so much milage you can get out of the bottom of the rotation.

[FredLynn]

This team should throw all of their best trade chips for a speedy CF who can leadoff with some pop, a RH OF who can platoon Sweeney and they should try to find a LF who is looking to bounce back from a bad season to his form as one of the better all-around players in the game. Oh yeah, an established (though injury prone) closer too. That would make them, like, a different team.

 

They probably lack the pieces though.

 

All of that isn't going to help their 13th ranked pitching staff. Good pitching will shut us down. We don't have the pitchers to shut the other guys down. Thats the essence of the problem.

[FredLynn]

You seem pretty confident that this team is mediocre. If mediocre is meant literally, you mean they're about an 81-81 team. So, adjusting for some variation, would you be willing to make a fun bet about them finishing above 85 wins this year? Maybe something like a sig bet. Loser uses a sig of the winner's choice for a full season?

 

For example, if you lose, I'd have you use a sig that say "I'm outdated." If you win, you can pick mine.

 

We can set the over under at 85.5 meaning 85 or less wins and you win. 86 or more and I win. What do you say?

 

The team IS mediocre right now. Can you predict the future? I can't, not well at least. If the FO goes out and makes some trades for good pitching we will no longer be mediocre. No bet. Not yet. Maybe after the trade deadline.

[SoxSport]

Gio is the guy they should have gotten--not Bailey. The less risky way to go. Instead they took a chance moving Bard to starter--he was a surer bet to close.

 

They might turn it around when CC and Ells come back, but they still have a logjam at 3B and too many 4A players starting. If Baltimore and Toronto don't collapse, they'll be fighting to stay out of the cellar--much less the playoffs.

[evilhand]

The team IS mediocre right now. Can you predict the future? I can't' date=' not well at least. If the FO goes out and makes some trades for good pitching we will no longer be mediocre. No bet. Not yet. Maybe after the trade deadline.[/quote']

 

That's what probability is all about, though. You look at what you have now, use past performance to predict what is to come. What's the point of discussing the team on a message board if all that matters is what's happened to this point? Obviously real world results determine who goes to the playoffs, who wins titles... but the point of discussing the team is to look beyond the amount of runs scored and who has won however many games to this point in the season. The point is to guess what's coming next.

 

I think there is ample evidence to suggest this team is much better than mediocre. Their performance over the entire season will show that, despite getting over 1/3 of the way through the schedule and being a game under .500. I'm willing to make a bet on that. You are not.

 

Says all I need to know about your position.

[Elktonnick]

Elk, far to often the Sox hitters show about as much in quality plate appearances as they did today.

 

The "inmates run the asylum" in more ways than one down at Fenway and I just really don't know what to think anymore. But we have said it for a long time now and I think it will be an issue even when Ells and CC and the others return....this is a poorly constructed team as far as its ability to gel as a real team. Yet it is actually run by the players. So you have basically 25 player/coaches that don't seem to give a rats ass about each other as a team and other than the younger guys, they do as they please, play when and as they please, make the plate appearances they want to make and pitch the way they want to pitch whether the approach is optimal to an opportunity to win or not.

 

When you have that much baggage underlying everything you are doing I am not sure a guy's OPS makes much of a difference.

 

Maybe they will go somewhere this year....maybe not but I don't see much "want to" in this team.

 

Sure the Nats are a team constructed from the bottom up but if you are going to get as unbalanced as the Sox are and as top heavy in big contracts as the Sox are, you better make damn sure you have a mix of guys that have a bunch of "want to". I just don't see it and have not for a long time now.

 

Unfortunately, as I said the other day, they are stuck with many of these big contracts cause nobody is going to want to pick them up at their full weight of salary and the Sox don't want to pick up the remains. However, while not wanting to pick up salary, management won't give a manager even an outside shot at grabbing those asylum keys back from the inmates.

 

As for building from the bottom up, I am not sure that anybody has such a crystal ball that even with draft picks outside the top guys, you could build more of a team by developing players to their full potential instead of trading them for the next Agons or whatever. That may especially be true of pitching. I just don't know why this team never seems to get the message about pitching. However I have been watching it for many years now and really can't find many times in its history when it even tried fully developing pitching talent.

 

It is always easier to put fannies in seats signing the next slugger and hoping nobody figures out that you don't have enough pitching to really win and I suspect this team reflects that mentality.

 

That pretty much sums up my thinking as well. Supposedly this team was put together by a computer program but you would never know it. The team is simply not equal to the sum of its parts. That is what happens when you go dumpster diving during th offseason.

 

A-Gon looks lost at the plate. Pedroia shouldn't be playing with his hand despite how much one admires his spunk. Avilles shows why he is not an everyday player at short despite some flashes. Nava while a surprise is unlikely to continue to play at this level.

 

While the bull pen is a surprise I can't see them going anywhere with Aceves as their closer. Lester simply hasn't lived up to his potential although he is still a very good pitcher if he maintains his composure. While Buchholtz has improved of late, one can't but think he is one bad break in a game from a complete meltdown in every start.

 

Youk shouldn't be starting. The idea that they have to showcase him so they can get some trade value is a fool's errand. The longer he plays the more his hitting weaknesses are showcased. Plus everyone knows that he is a rent-a wreck.

 

While there is still a lot of baseball yet to play, this team without a dramatic turnaround and the arrival of their reinforcements is unlikely to win 85 games. One only hopes the Cavalry arrives before they are so far out, it doesn't matter.

[FredLynn]

Yeah. Just trying to get under our skin. No surprise.

 

In the good news front - Crawford is spraying line drives everywhere according to Pete Abe. Says he's closed his stance and has a real easy swing. Olney said he expects Crawford back before the end of the month. Also, Ellsbury has hit off a tee for 5 straight days and is coming along well. Kalish is 3-3 again today with ANOTHER homerun, and looks like the year off has only made him better.

 

Anyone who is pessimistic about this season just isn't paying attention.

 

What is it with you guys? We can add all those great offensive players and instead of getting four runs we will get five. Or six. What difference does that make if the other guys get 7? Or if we are up against great pitching. Aren't you all paying attention to this Nats series? Their pitching is shutting us down. We must be able to do the same to the other guys and right now we can't.

[jung]

Well others have now picked up on this as the records start to flesh themselves out in the various divisions but I believe there is every chance that the tough as nails AL East will only send its divisional winner into the post season. Even with two WC teams this year, it will be easier to get there from one of the other divisions.

 

Now I could be wrong. Lord knows I am wrong enough. However if that is the case, I have a hard time thinking the Sox can make it to the top of this division. Myself I have not really concentrated much of late on 98+ or 95+ or 90+. I have been more interested in how the divisional race for the crown in the AL East goes and then how the other divisions do with regard to teams that are second.

 

The one thing I think none of us is used to is how tough it is to make ground even when you are doing well. So 7 games back in the loss column does not sound like much but you have to claw like hell to make up 7.

 

We went on a real run there right and I think we made up 3.5????....maybe 4?????

 

Granted when we sag for a few days we don't lose that much ground but that is why I have been saying that June was the month that scares the s*** out of me. We could go on a few of these 1-3 spurts and those are going to really be tough to come back from if that is what happens.

[FredLynn]

That's what probability is all about, though. You look at what you have now, use past performance to predict what is to come. What's the point of discussing the team on a message board if all that matters is what's happened to this point? Obviously real world results determine who goes to the playoffs, who wins titles... but the point of discussing the team is to look beyond the amount of runs scored and who has won however many games to this point in the season. The point is to guess what's coming next.

 

I think there is ample evidence to suggest this team is much better than mediocre. Their performance over the entire season will show that, despite getting over 1/3 of the way through the schedule and being a game under .500. I'm willing to make a bet on that. You are not.

 

Says all I need to know about your position.

 

All it says is that I deal with the present more than you do.

[ellsburyforMVP]

Can't we all just get alongB)

 

The celtics are playing AND leading at the half in gm 7 of the conference finals!!!!! :thumbsup:

[evilhand]

What is it with you guys? We can add all those great offensive players and instead of getting four runs we will get five. Or six. What difference does that make if the other guys get 7? Or if we are up against great pitching. Aren't you all paying attention to this Nats series? Their pitching is shutting us down. We must be able to do the same to the other guys and right now we can't.

 

So I guess the fact that they lit up Verlander last week means nothing? All that matters is the first two games against the Nats? This is the second best run scoring team in the AL. The offense is not an issue.

 

All it says is that I deal with the present more than you do.

 

No, it says you have no confidence in your opinion and that you know, even if you won't admit it, that by the end of the season there's a good chance this team finds itself going to the playoffs. For all your insistence that this team is mediocre, you understand that the early struggles are not representative of their true talent level and that as they get healthier and Beckett and Buchholz keep pitching well, that they're one of the better teams in the majors. Never mind if Lester straightens it out.

 

Shouting "This team is mediocre" over and over rings hollow when you won't commit to that position going forward. Either you think this team is mediocre and playing to their potential or you think they're better than that and don't want to give up the ability to complain by admitting they're playing below their true talent level.

 

There really is no in between there.

[Brennan]

Why do you need to insult personally people you disagee with?

 

 

 

That's her game Nick, never say anything bad about the team or it's play, just insult the fans that do and insult their fandom.

[yeszir]

That's her game Nick' date=' never say anything bad about the team or it's play, just insult the fans that do and insult their fandom.[/quote']

 

I'm just going to respond to this post to point out that all of you *******s are on extremely thin ice. In fact, the ice has already melted and you're at the bottom of the pond so there's really nothing you can do. Except I guess continue to be *******s and then accept the inevitable when it happens.

[FredLynn]

So I guess the fact that they lit up Verlander last week means nothing? All that matters is the first two games against the Nats? This is the second best run scoring team in the AL. The offense is not an issue.

 

 

 

No, it says you have no confidence in your opinion and that you know, even if you won't admit it, that by the end of the season there's a good chance this team finds itself going to the playoffs. For all your insistence that this team is mediocre, you understand that the early struggles are not representative of their true talent level and that as they get healthier and Beckett and Buchholz keep pitching well, that they're one of the better teams in the majors. Never mind if Lester straightens it out.

 

Shouting "This team is mediocre" over and over rings hollow when you won't commit to that position going forward. Either you think this team is mediocre and playing to their potential or you think they're better than that and don't want to give up the ability to complain by admitting they're playing below their true talent level.

 

There really is no in between there.

 

This team IS mediocre-right now. Do you know how they will do in the future? Do you know what trades might be made to improve the team? I watch and observe what is present now and try not to get into what might be too much, at least not months in the future. I do that with baseball; I do it with the rest of my life too. One day at a time. Just the here and now, as much as possible. Very zen. You should try it.

[yeszir]

Count me in the "still optimistic about this team" group

[FredLynn]

Can't we all just get alongB)

 

The celtics are playing AND leading at the half in gm 7 of the conference finals!!!!! :thumbsup:

 

We are, aren't we? Most of us are just having discussions and sometimes our opinions differ. Intelligent people can have differing opinions, eh?

[mvp 78]

Gio is the guy they should have gotten--not Bailey. The less risky way to go. Instead they took a chance moving Bard to starter--he was a surer bet to close.

 

They might turn it around when CC and Ells come back, but they still have a logjam at 3B and too many 4A players starting. If Baltimore and Toronto don't collapse, they'll be fighting to stay out of the cellar--much less the playoffs.

 

That trade would have commanded players like Middlebrooks.

 

Gio is nice, but I wouldn't empty my farm for him. For Felix I'd consider it.

[mvp 78]

Count me in the "still optimistic about this team" group

 

It hasn't always been pretty, but it's not hopeless like 2010 (though watching the younger guys was fun) and the team is far more enjoyable than the 2001 mess. I don't see a WS this year, but I think they are in the WC hunt in the last week. Lots of fun ball left to watch.

[evilhand]

This team IS mediocre-right now. Do you know how they will do in the future? Do you know what trades might be made to improve the team? I watch and observe what is present now and try not to get into what might be too much' date=' at least not months in the future. I do that with baseball; I do it with the rest of my life too. One day at a time. Just the here and now, as much as possible. Very zen. You should try it.[/quote']

 

Then what's the point of talking about the team? What's the point of doing anything more than watching the games? We have stats at our disposal that allow us to take a look forward and make reasonable guesses about what might be coming. And using them, there is a very good argument for this team being a playoff contender this season.

 

A big part of their current record is the awful start they had where they didn't have Ellsbury or Youk on the offensive side, were missing Matsuzaka and Bailey, the pen crapped on itself while figuring out who was going to pitch when, Buchholz was still shaking off the rust from not pitching for nearly a year, Beckett had one really atrocious start and Lester stumbled out of the gate.

 

Since then they've gotten Youk back, Buchholz has seemed to figure it out, Beckett has shown us he's still Beckett, Matsuzaka has returned and the pen has settled into a very good group of pitchers. Ellsbury is making strides in his attempt to return, Crawford is supposedly swinging the bat well, Melancon has been dominating AAA, Lavarnway has started hitting well in AAA again and Kalish is crushing the ball in his rehab assignment.

 

All indications are that this team will continue to improve over the awful start in April and be competitive. You know this, so why can't you include it in your assessment of the team going forward?

[FredLynn]

That trade would have commanded players like Middlebrooks.

 

Gio is nice, but I wouldn't empty my farm for him. For Felix I'd consider it.

 

In the end we are going to have to give up someone good to get great pitching. No one is going to hand us Gio or Felix. The trick is in recognizing who is going to be good. Thats where Epstein fell down.

[a700hitter]

Here' my obeservatins from the game. I had avery good vantage point. A couple of things struck me about Dice K. It's been a while since I have seen him in person. Like the first time I saw him in Spring Training 2007, I was surprised at how small he is. However, he is in the best pysical condition of all his years with the Sox. Even in 2007, I was struck by the fact that he was a little pudgy guy. He is in excellent condition right now.

 

As for his stuff, it looked crisp and sharp. Batters had a tough time with pitch recognition. His stuff was better thn I had expected as was his command. It was a pleasant surprise for me.

 

We couldn't do a damn thing with Gio. He was sitting at 95-96 with his fastball. No one could sqauare him up. We made solid contact 3 times-- twice in the first two innings. We got two solid hits. I was thrilled when Johnson removed him. We had no chance against him. The Sox should have made a bigger push to trde for him in the off season. He is worth it. Plus the Nat's signed him for the next 5 years at $8million a year-- a f***ing steal.

 

Nava mada a very good catch in the early innings going toward the LF line. He had a long run and caught it right by the line.

 

WTF happened with the catcher on the passed ball in the second inning when Middlebrokks was batting? It like like the catcher turned to avoid the pitch and it nailed him good.

[jung]

For myself I agree that scoring is not an issue and for a time I did hope for more offensive output cause as the injuries piled up I really had concerns about how we would find enough offense to overcome our pitching. However here they are second in the league in offense. The subs at least to this date have outdone themselves and guys like Ortiz have been other-worldy. So why do we keep looking at the return of more everyday players as if they are going to significantly change the outcome of games? The subs and the remaining regulars have generated offense.

 

We need better pitching than we have and I just don't see enough change there (unless we pull off a trade that brings it to us) to get the job done.

 

This month I think is key. If we are in it at the end of this month, then at least we will stay in it to the end. But it is no accident that we remain in the basement though not that many games back in the division. Ignoring that is really ignoring what this year in the AL seems to be all about.

[Brennan]

I'm just going to respond to this post to point out that all of you *******s are on extremely thin ice. In fact' date=' the ice has already melted and you're at the bottom of the pond so there's really nothing you can do. Except I guess continue to be *******s and then accept the inevitable when it happens.[/quote']

 

 

 

 

Did you just call me an *******?

[Brennan]

I summarized it for you. No need to read thru this crap. PG in typical a-hole form. See page 14

 

nuff ced

[jung]

700, what happened on that play is that the catcher was expecting the FB from Gio and got the curve. As the ball dipped he was completely unprepared for it. Good example of how dangerous it can be for catchers if they do get crossed up like that.

[a700hitter]

700' date=' what happened on that play is that the catcher was expecting the FB from Gio and got the curve. As the ball dipped he was completely unprepared for it. Good example of how dangerous it can be for catchers if they do get crossed up like that.[/quote']I couldn't tell where it hit him. People at the game said that it got him in the leg. He ws hurting pretty bad.

[jung]

It got him not just in the leg but in the upper thigh and hit him kinda' like a charlie horse would I think. It certainly hit him in charlie horse territory and the way he went down and stayed down made it seem just like that sort of pain.

[FredLynn]

Then what's the point of talking about the team? What's the point of doing anything more than watching the games? We have stats at our disposal that allow us to take a look forward and make reasonable guesses about what might be coming. And using them, there is a very good argument for this team being a playoff contender this season.

 

A big part of their current record is the awful start they had where they didn't have Ellsbury or Youk on the offensive side, were missing Matsuzaka and Bailey, the pen crapped on itself while figuring out who was going to pitch when, Buchholz was still shaking off the rust from not pitching for nearly a year, Beckett had one really atrocious start and Lester stumbled out of the gate.

 

Since then they've gotten Youk back, Buchholz has seemed to figure it out, Beckett has shown us he's still Beckett, Matsuzaka has returned and the pen has settled into a very good group of pitchers. Ellsbury is making strides in his attempt to return, Crawford is supposedly swinging the bat well, Melancon has been dominating AAA, Lavarnway has started hitting well in AAA again and Kalish is crushing the ball in his rehab assignment.

 

All indications are that this team will continue to improve over the awful start in April and be competitive. You know this, so why can't you include it in your assessment of the team going forward?

 

All I can say, my friend, is that I hope you are right. And you might well be right. Besides, your tagline suggestion of me being old fashioned or something like that, is true.