When everyone's back in the OF what the heck do we do

[Dojji]

The way I see it we're going to have 6 valid options for 3 starting OF positions within the month -- Crawford, Ellsbury, Kalish, Ross, Sweeney, and Nava. And the easiest guy to cut has been the most effective in the field.

 

When we get Ross and Ellsbury back, I think we're going to shed Podsednik and McD, and see Ross starting in right. Sweeney's numbers have slipped and he's a tolerable 4th OF and LIDR. On the whole, that looks pretty stable to me.

 

Crawford is the real fly in the ointment. When we get him back, that's when some things are going to happen that offend me. He's our starting left fielder. That's Plan A, and while Nava has made as good a bid as a player of his type and status on a team like the Red Sox can possibly make to Wally Piipp him, I don't think it'll stick. The team has too much committed into making Crawford a success. This is compounded by the fact that Crawford, a chronic underacheiver for the Sox, is the one in direct competition for the position currently being played by Mr. Overachiever. And has a ridiculous contract that you want to get some value out of.

 

So does that mean you just sit Nava? The man's generating some buzz and has been more than getting the job done at the top of our lineup. Crawford has all the tools Nava doesn't have, but Nava has had all the consistency Crawford pretty much never had, and which is really the more important attribute on a team like the Boston Red Sox. If I had to bat one of those two first or second right now, with the kind of power bats we have further down in the lineup, I'd give a lot of thought to the guy with the .455 OBP over the guy with a sub-.300 Boston OBP and a sub .340 OBP for his career. Nava so far is a better fit for a traditionally station to station, power driven team, and that is what the Red Sox are.

 

With that said, money does talk, and the team is going to try to recoup their investment in Crawford. They're going to highlight Crawford's speed and D as good reasons to tolerate benching one of the team's better stories. I hate that it's going to be this way, but Crawford's 8 figure salary guarantees him a starting spot for now once he's healthy, and Valentine isn't going to want the clubhouse crapstorm that benching Crawford in favor of Nava would generate. Personally I wish CC a nice, long recovery. But all indications are that Crawford's return is fairly imminent.

 

That leaves Nava, Ross and Sweeney competing for playing time in right field. Which pretty much means Ross and Sweeney, since Nava isn't going to get playing time in right field in this configuration, which is why the permanent 8 figure coronation of Crawford in left sucks from my POV. I honestly want to see if Nava can keep this going, and I honestly think I'm not gonna get that chance. At this point we're lucky if he's still the 5th OF, which SUCKS. He has earned better than that -- his surge correlating with our return to winning baseball is not a coincidence.

[MANNYHOF24]

The way I see it we're going to have 6 valid options for 3 starting OF positions within the month -- Crawford, Ellsbury, Kalish, Ross, Sweeney, and Nava. And the easiest guy to cut has been the most effective in the field.

 

When we get Ross and Ellsbury back, I think we're going to shed Podsednik and McD, and see Ross starting in right. Sweeney's numbers have slipped and he's a tolerable 4th OF and LIDR. On the whole, that looks pretty stable to me.

 

Crawford is the real fly in the ointment. When we get him back, that's when some things are going to happen that offend me. He's our starting left fielder. That's Plan A, and while Nava has made as good a bid as a player of his type and status on a team like the Red Sox can possibly make to Wally Piipp him, I don't think it'll stick. The team has too much committed into making Crawford a success. This is compounded by the fact that Crawford, a chronic underacheiver for the Sox, is the one in direct competition for the position currently being played by Mr. Overachiever. And has a ridiculous contract that you want to get some value out of.

 

So does that mean you just sit Nava? The man's generating some buzz and has been more than getting the job done at the top of our lineup. Crawford has all the tools Nava doesn't have, but Nava has had all the consistency Crawford pretty much never had, and which is really the more important attribute on a team like the Boston Red Sox. If I had to bat one of those two first or second right now, with the kind of power bats we have further down in the lineup, I'd give a lot of thought to the guy with the .455 OBP over the guy with a sub-.300 Boston OBP and a sub .340 OBP for his career. Nava so far is a better fit for a traditionally station to station, power driven team, and that is what the Red Sox are.With that said, money does talk, and the team is going to try to recoup their investment in Crawford. They're going to highlight Crawford's speed and D as good reasons to tolerate benching one of the team's better stories. I hate that it's going to be this way, but Crawford's 8 figure salary guarantees him a starting spot for now once he's healthy, and Valentine isn't going to want the clubhouse crapstorm that benching Crawford in favor of Nava would generate. Personally I wish CC a nice, long recovery. But all indications are that Crawford's return is fairly imminent.

 

That leaves Nava, Ross and Sweeney competing for playing time in right field. Which pretty much means Ross and Sweeney, since Nava isn't going to get playing time in right field in this configuration, which is why the permanent 8 figure coronation of Crawford in left sucks from my POV. I honestly want to see if Nava can keep this going, and I honestly think I'm not gonna get that chance. At this point we're lucky if he's still the 5th OF, which SUCKS. He has earned better than that -- his surge correlating with our return to winning baseball is not a coincidence.

 

Oh no! I hope the Red Sox don't make the drastic mistake of offending Dojji. I don't think they would ever recover as an organization.

 

For f***s sake, Crawford has had 1 poor year in Boston, so he gets labeled as a career under achiever? News flash, Nava isn't as good as he is playing and the Red Sox are going to improve drastically in the long run by having Crawford playing... if he is healthy of course.

 

I would also bet money that Nava's OBP for the season will end under .340... I think it will end far bellow it. Hey, I love that he is playing well right now but he will get figured out and he will slump back to the player that he is- which is not good enough to remain in this outfield when everyone is back.

 

The Red Sox won't be a classic station to station team when they have Crawford and Ellsbury back healthy in the lineup. They will be able to make things happen on the basepaths and be a much more dynamic team.

[MANNYHOF24]

I also think the Red Sox should try to package Nava into a deal with Kevin Youkilis and try to bring back a decent return. It would be in the Red Sox best interest to try to sell high on Nava before he crashes back to earth.

[Dojji]

He's been remarkably crash free to this point. His minor league numbers roughly match what he's doing in the bigs so far. There's little reason to bail on Nava just because he's playing well.

 

That said if you can get a good trade for him, maybe pick up some solid help in the middle infield where we need it badly, I can't complain too much about that. This idea that Crawford is a lock to be better than Nava flies in the face of the last 2 years of observable reality though. Crawford's a top or bottom of the order hitter, and for what we need in those roles, Nava has been a FAR better fit. Speed just doesn't matter that much when you have the kind of power the Sox can throw into a lineup.

[a700hitter]

When all of the outfielders are back healthy, Ellsbury and Crawford should play every day with Sweeney and Ross platooning in RF. The 5th outfielder that I would pick would be Pods, because he can play CF and run. He is a good OBP guy. He brings a dimension that Nava doesn't bring. I'd like to keep Nava because he can put the bat on the ball and he has improved his fielding, but he can only play LF.

[Dojji]

Podsednik is a good OBP guy? His OBP is his best attribute, but at .340, you're really stress testing the word "good." He's moderately above average -- or so. A lot like Sweeney in that respect. And that's an average that obviously includes his prime -- which is a level he's not going to reach again.

 

Besides, if you have both Ellsbury and Crawford in the lineup why the heck do you need speed on the bench?

 

Again, this idea that we need players who can run simply because being fast helps isn't quite wrong, but we're talking about ah OBP difference of 110 points, and Podsednik isn't the guy who stole 70 bases 8 years ago anymore.

 

I don't see any particular reason why we should just blindly return Crawford's job to him. How about some healthy competition? And if Crawford can't deal with that, call that what it is -- an overpaid player being a baby on a team already filled and overfilled with overpaid babies?

 

I just think that Crawford automatically being gift-wrapped LF is an example of exactly what the Red Sox, the FO and the fans all just don't get, don't understand and don't want to understand about baseball. You don't just give people things in this sport. Make them fight to earn it, and make them fight to keep it. Don't let people get comfortable.

[Bellhorn04]

At this point I have to say Nava shouldn't be going anywhere. I mean, 306/445/506...

 

And I think this team has been a much more energized group since Middlebrooks and Nava got here...

[a700hitter]

Podsednik is a good OBP guy? His OBP is his best attribute, but at .340, you're really stress testing the word "good." He's moderately above average -- or so. A lot like Sweeney in that respect.

 

Besides, if you have both Ellsbury and Crawford in the lineup why the heck do you need speed on the bench?

 

Again, this idea that we need players who can run simply because being fast helps isn't quite wrong, but we're talking about ah OBP difference of 110 points, and Podsednik isn't the guy who stole 70 bases 8 years ago anymore.

 

I don't see any particular reason why we should just blindly return Crawford's job to him. How about some healthy competition? And if Crawford can't deal with that, call that what it is -- an overpaid player being a baby on a team already filled and overfilled with overpaid babies?

I'll take a .340 OBP for my 5th OFer, but more importantly, he is the better OFer and he can play CF. He doesn't steal 70 bases anymore. If he did, he would be starting for some team instead of competing for the 5th OF slot. He still runs very well, and could be effective as a pinch runner or bunter. He is a better rounded professional than Nava.

[example1]

In my ideal world the 5th OF is Kalish. Sorry about Nava Dojj. He will probably stay in the organization and be on the big club next year when they need to save even more money.

[Dojji]

The reason I wrote Kalish off out of hand is that I figured with his injuries, he's missed a lot of time and he's going to need to get his timing back, and you can do that more easily as the starting RF of the Pawsox.

 

A better argument is simply not having a 5th OF. If Carl Crawford has decided to join us here in Red Sox nation for the first time ever, he, Ellsbury, Ross and Sweeney can probably be a well above average outfield on both sides of the ball. And we could really use another middle infielder at the moment. If Nava has options that's probably how it's going to go down eventually -- and I hate it. He deserves better.

[jung]

As much as I love Nava as a player and love what he has done...maybe he doesn't deserve better. When you are comparing the much diminished physical talents of a Pods to what Nava brings in the way he plays the game and still end up with even something close to a tie, that tells you why Nava has not really been able to make much progress over his baseball career.

 

D-mac clearly has been thought of more highly within the Sox organization as a defensive specialist I guess but even that speaks volumes to the issues for Nava.

 

Clearly the real fly in the ointment is the money the Sox have committed to CC. Oddly enough we were told at the time that Theo was worried about being shut out by Ells and his agent. How was this not the frying pan to the fire? So to protect against being boxed by Ells and his agent he gets boxed and closes the lid by signing CC to a contract that nobody in the right mind will touch with a 10 foot pole, more or less assuring that CC is a part of the Sox outfield plans for the term of that contract and really making any effort at Ells tough to pull off since Ells and his agent can now rub the CC contract right in Boston's face.

 

Much as I regret it, there is the chance that a team might see in Nava a ready made, mature baseball player that they have room for. I reluctantly have to agree with the idea of packaging Nava with somebody and trade in an effort to try to fill a Sox hole. If anything the Sox have an abundance of bodies to play the outfield when these guys come off the DL..

[a700hitter]

In my ideal world the 5th OF is Kalish. Sorry about Nava Dojj. He will probably stay in the organization and be on the big club next year when they need to save even more money.

He hasn't had enough work since his injury. He has options.

[a700hitter]

Packaging Nava in a trade would be a great idea.

[Dojji]

The problem is that if we're talking trades, what we need right now are solid middle infielders, which are as rare as hen's teeth on this market, and starting pitchers, which are well beyond any trade pull a guy like Nava would have. You'd basically be trading him for future options, and that's a waste of assets a lot of the time.

[a700hitter]

The problem is that if we're talking trades' date=' what we need right now are solid middle infielders, which are as rare as hen's teeth on this market, and starting pitchers, which are well beyond any trade pull a guy like Nava would have. You'd basically be trading him for future options, and that's a waste of assets a lot of the time.[/quote']That's why it would have to be a package.

[Bellhorn04]

All Nava has done is get on base at a tremendous clip, score runs and drive them in. Yes, let's get him the hell out of here. Bring on Crawford and that .289 OBP. Woo-hoo!

 

I say keep Nava, even if you have to send him back down. After Crawford sucks for awhile everyone will be wanting Nava back.

[FredLynn]

At this point I have to say Nava shouldn't be going anywhere. I mean, 306/445/506...

 

And I think this team has been a much more energized group since Middlebrooks and Nava got here...

 

Nava is just not that good. He will slowly come back to earth. I agree with Manny that its time to package him while his value is high in a deal to get a high quality SP.

[NCPack2889]

Crawford, Ellsbury, and Ross.

 

Nava and Sweeney on the bench. Kalish to AAA.

[Bellhorn04]

Nava is just not that good. He will slowly come back to earth. I agree with Manny that its time to package him while his value is high in a deal to get a high quality SP.

 

Crawford might not be too good anymore either.

[FredLynn]

All Nava has done is get on base at a tremendous clip, score runs and drive them in. Yes, let's get him the hell out of here. Bring on Crawford and that .289 OBP. Woo-hoo!

 

I say keep Nava, even if you have to send him back down. After Crawford sucks for awhile everyone will be wanting Nava back.

 

In 60 games prior to the 27 he has played this year, Nava's career OPS is .711. He is hot right now, which is great, fun to watch. It won't last. And Crawford will contribute. He had a bad year. It will take him some time to get back into it, but if he is healthy again, he is too good not to contribute. Look at his career stats (career OPS of .773 plus speed). He is better than Nava.

[FredLynn]

Crawford might not be too good anymore either.

 

Crawford is going to start if he is healthy, whether anyone likes it or not. He is paid way too much money to sit. Its not going to happen. I think he will be fine this year, eventually.

[Bellhorn04]

In 60 games prior to the 27 he has played this year' date=' Nava's career OPS is .711. He is hot right now, which is great, fun to watch. It won't last. And Crawford will contribute. He had a bad year. It will take him some time to get back into it, but if he is healthy again, he is too good not to contribute. Look at his career stats (career OPS of .773 plus speed). He is better than Nava.[/quote']

 

Easy with the cherry-picking, now...Nava has a higher career OPS. Crawford was absolutely brutal last year and now all these injury problems have surfaced. I'm not expecting much from him this year at all.

[FredLynn]

Easy with the cherry-picking' date=' now...Nava has a higher career OPS. Crawford was absolutely brutal last year and now all these injury problems have surfaced. I'm not expecting much from him this year at all.[/quote']

 

Guess we will wait and see. Nava's career statistics are based on some pretty small sample sizes, so where he ends up is conjecture. Crawford is not old, and if he is healthy (the big "if" in my opinion), he should be expected to perform near career norms.

[BornToRun]

Drop Pods, Byrd, and Mcjerkoff and keep nava as the 5th of.

[a700hitter]

Drop Pods' date=' Byrd, and Mcjerkoff and keep nava as the 5th of.[/quote']

How will he get playing time if he can only play LF?

[Station 13]

How will he get playing time if he can only play LF?

 

Gonzalez played RF just fine.

[redsoxbeatz]

You need to include Gonzo in that list of players as well as Youk & WMB. Gonzo is acting OF right now which is easier to do with so many injures, its not like he is replacing Ells or CC or even Nava in the OF.

 

Youk [& Nava] get dealt before CC returns (assuming Ells returns prior to CC)? Could happen. I hate to see Youk leave but WMB is the youth injection.

 

Nava has been playing tremendously for the Sox. Let's see what his stats are by then end of June.

[mvp 78]

I don't think Nava has real trade value. We still need to see how Pods and Nava hold up before picking a 5th OF. If Nava keeps hitting, he stays. If he declines, put him on the train back to Providence.

[seabeachfred]

Nice topic guys but I think we're getting a little premature. We have two prima donnas with talent who heal about as slowly as a tortous runs. You would think they would both be ready by now but we are getting to the two month point in the season and neither is near ready to come back. Crawford seems to be chipping away with one injury after another and I wonder if he has been scarred by his miserable performance he gave last year. Face it, he sucked both at bat and in the field last season and so far we've gotten bumpkiss out of that bloated contract we gave him. As for Ellsbury, I love the guy but he is a very brittle and slow healing type of player. I also wonder how mentally tough he is.....two out of three seasons he's been laid up for long durations. I want them both back but I don't see them back this month, nor next month either. And who knows w hat happens when either one of them suddenly gets a hangnail or a bloody nose.....2013???? Maybe?????