June 3, 2012: Red Sox @ Blue Jays

[FredLynn]

So would you say that the Orioles are a 1st place team?? Because going into today's games, they were in 1st place.

 

The Sox may be in last place right now, but that doesn't mean that they are a last place team. It's early and they will rebound from their poor start. It's just like after 4 games, if the Orioles started out 4-0 and the Yankees started 0-4. The Yankees are not a worse team than the Orioles.

 

Just like the Red Sox aren't a worse team than the Blue Jays or Orioles. The top 3 will be the Sox, Rays, and Yanks. If the Sox can keep pitching, they'll score plenty of runs to win a ton of games before the reinforcements come back. Then, once Ells, Crawford, Bailey, and Ross get back, this team will be in great shape and will make the PS this year.

 

So would you say that the Orioles are a 1st place team??

 

Nope. Just checked the standings. They are a second place team. The Rays are a first place team, and we are a last place team, until we prove otherwise.

[Bellhorn04]

So would you say that the Orioles are a 1st place team??

 

Nope. Just checked the standings. They are a second place team. The Rays are a first place team, and we are a last place team, until we prove otherwise.

 

Being in last place is not much of a factor when you're 3 games out of first place and there are 108 games left to play.

[jacksonianmarch]

The comparison with Joba is useless. Joba was a starter first and they used him as a reliever when he got called up. He fail as a starter because he is an injury prone fat f***.

 

The Joba comment just isnt accurate. Joba came through the system as a starter. He went in guns blazing as a reliever in 07. He started out relieving in 08, then got converted mid-season to a starter where he was lights out. 43K's in 35IP, only 10 walks and a WHIP around 1.1. Then he hurt his arm in Texas. Since that time, he has lost the electricity on the fastball. He was throwing 96mph on average when he started. The following yr, he was throwing low 90s and was a 5 inning pitcher who was getting shelled.

[seabeachfred]

I vented elsewhere so I will let my alter ego take over here. The BarF experiment has been an abject and total failure and it time to pull the plug....way past time to do it. I only hope we haven't screwed this guy up as we did with Hansen and a few others over the years. We are back in last place and that's who we are until we start winning consistently over a longer period of time. No more BarF in the rotation, that has to be assignment No. 1. I also notice that Middlebrooks wasn't in the lineup again. Notice when he plays we win and when he doesn't we don't. See a little pattern there? I'm happy we took two of three from the Blue Jays, and I really didn't think we would win today so I'm not that surprised that we didn't but we have another homestand coming up and that's what concerns me. We have "Shitbag" Lester opening for us tomorrow against the Orioles and he has been nothing short of s***** this season. We can only hope he finally steps up tomorrow and starts earning his keep and that the offense shows up with him. Not a big fan of Francona as most of you know, but I think Lester threw him under the bus when he joined forces with those miscreants last September. To me he showed himself nothing less than a follower or lacky and from that point I developed a deep animosity towards him. His lousy pitching hasn't helped change my mind on the crud either.

[FredLynn]

Being in last place is not much of a factor when you're 3 games out of first place and there are 108 games left to play.

 

I agree. I am not concerned about our position relative to the other ALE teams. I am concerned, however, about our pitching, especially our starting pitching. The pen seems to have found its way. Lester and Bard clearly have not, and while Buchholz has a few good starts under his belt, I am not convinced that he is cured yet. No SP=no playoffs. You can take that to the bank.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree. I am not concerned about our position relative to the other ALE teams. I am concerned' date=' however, about our pitching, especially our starting pitching. The pen seems to have found its way. Lester and Bard clearly have not, and while Buchholz has a few good starts under his belt, I am not convinced that he is cured yet. No SP=no playoffs. You can take that to the bank.[/quote']

 

The performance of the starters will decide things, I agree with that.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I agree. I am not concerned about our position relative to the other ALE teams. I am concerned' date=' however, about our pitching, especially our starting pitching. The pen seems to have found its way. Lester and Bard clearly have not, and while Buchholz has a few good starts under his belt, I am not convinced that he is cured yet. No SP=no playoffs. You can take that to the bank.[/quote']

 

I think Buchholz has started to turn it around. He's actually getting downward action on his FB, and he's also got his change and curveball working well. Maybe he finally feels comfortable with his back, and that he's not going to re-injure himself.

 

I fully expect him to turn back into a 7 IP, 2-3 ER per outing starter from here on out. His final ERA won't look all that pretty, but I don't care about that. If he gives us a 3.50 ERA from today forward, we'll be just fine.

 

Lester is going to figure it out. Just like Gonzo is going to figure it out. They haven't changed teams, divisions, etc. They just are grinding through some tough stuff right now, but they'll get comfortable and find their numbers.

[a700hitter]

I think Buchholz has started to turn it around. He's actually getting downward action on his FB, and he's also got his change and curveball working well. Maybe he finally feels comfortable with his back, and that he's not going to re-injure himself.

 

I fully expect him to turn back into a 7 IP, 2-3 ER per outing starter from here on out. His final ERA won't look all that pretty, but I don't care about that. If he gives us a 3.50 ERA from today forward, we'll be just fine.

 

Lester is going to figure it out. Just like Gonzo is going to figure it out. They haven't changed teams, divisions, etc. They just are grinding through some tough stuff right now, but they'll get comfortable and find their numbers.

I picked up Buchholz for one of my fantasy teams. It's my second shot with him this season. He's probably going to crap all over himself now that I have picked him up.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I picked up Buchholz for one of my fantasy teams. It's my second shot with him this season. He's probably going to crap all over himself now that I have picked him up.

 

He looked damn good in Toronto. Turned back into the Buchholz who was a DP machine. He used to be able to get out of jams almost at will by throwing a perfect DP 2-seamer. That's what I saw against TOR last outing.

[a700hitter]

He looked damn good in Toronto. Turned back into the Buchholz who was a DP machine. He used to be able to get out of jams almost at will by throwing a perfect DP 2-seamer. That's what I saw against TOR last outing.

Yes. I saw the same thing.

[evilhand]

I think Buchholz has started to turn it around. He's actually getting downward action on his FB, and he's also got his change and curveball working well. Maybe he finally feels comfortable with his back, and that he's not going to re-injure himself.

 

I fully expect him to turn back into a 7 IP, 2-3 ER per outing starter from here on out. His final ERA won't look all that pretty, but I don't care about that. If he gives us a 3.50 ERA from today forward, we'll be just fine.

 

His last two starts certainly paint the picture of him "figuring it out." He's been dominant the last two times out. 15 IP, 2.4 ERA, 7.8 k/9, 1.8 bb/9, 4.33 k/bb

 

I posted some graphs in his game thread from his last start in May pointing out how well he was using the change up. He's getting similar vertical and horizontal movement between his two fastballs and the change, with similar spin, but a significant difference in velocity.

 

It's been really hard for hitters to distinguish between it and his heat which makes it a very effective weapon. So long as he can keep throwing it like that, he'll continue to baffle hitters, strike out a bunch of them and go deep into games. So it's now just a matter of consistency, which he has a long way to go to prove he's found.

 

I'm hoping he's turning the corner. I picked him up for my fantasy team after his last start because I think he might be. The pitchfx data show a completely different pitcher in the last two games than he was in the previous 9. If it's not a flash in the pan, the rotation is going to be a strength going forward, even if Lester keeps middling about like a back of the rotation kind of guy. At least until Doubront wears down and needs to be moved to the pen or shut down for the year.

[jung]

If Buch can pitch like that again his next outing, that will become one hell of a turnaround in a really short period because his last bad starts were really bad starts and his last good starts have been a night and day difference. Another good start like the last ones he has had, at least you can say that Buch might be set for the rest of the year baring injury.

[evilhand]

He looked damn good in Toronto. Turned back into the Buchholz who was a DP machine. He used to be able to get out of jams almost at will by throwing a perfect DP 2-seamer. That's what I saw against TOR last outing.

 

He actually doesn't look like anything he's been before except maybe the guy who was overpowering the minors at every level. In 2007 and 2008, while he got very different results in each year, he was a strikeout machine who made hitters look foolish on a regular basis. He also gave up a lot of hits in 2008 and started walking the park. He was having trouble harnessing his stuff for strikes. The hitters had no idea where his pitches were going, but neither did he. Plus, he relied on the 4 seam fastball too much and as a flat pitch, it became the thing hitters looked for and eventually they stopped swinging at his breaking stuff entirely.

 

So in 2009 he changed his approach and started pitching to contact, inducing a lot of ground balls. It was a striking shift as he stopped striking hitters out. But it worked and in 2010 he had an ERA so low he was in the discussion for Cy Young (probably undeservedly so, but that at least demonstrates how good his line looked).

 

He seemed to be trending a bit back toward being a strike out pitcher in 2011 while still going deep into games. He had a handful of starts where he started making guys look foolish again. Then he got hurt.

 

So to see him striking guys out over the last two starts while also remaining efficient is very encouraging. It's like a combination of the high strike out guy he was when he came into the league and the very efficient guy he was in 2009 and 2010.

 

If he can put those two together, he's going to be a very good pitcher. And, coincidentally (or perhaps not), this is similar to the transformation Jon Lester went through in his first few seasons.

[evilhand]

If Buch can pitch like that again his next outing' date=' that will become one hell of a turnaround in a really short period because his last bad starts were really bad starts and his last good starts have been a night and day difference. Another good start like the last ones he has had, at least you can say that Buch might be set for the rest of the year baring injury.[/quote']

 

My suspicion about his early struggles was that missing most of the last year with an injury that left him very inactive probably left him extremely rusty and that he's been trying shake that off since the season started.

 

If that's what was happening, we may be in for a very pleasant rest of the year.