June 3, 2012: Red Sox @ Blue Jays

[SoxFanForsyth]

No' date=' I am saying that it is time to pull the plug on the experiment. If we were 10 games up in the division, they'd have more of a luxury to be patient with him. This division is a dog fight. Only a handful of games are separating first place from last place. They can't afford to give a way games like this every 5th day.[/quote']

 

Well then we are in agreement.

[Palodios]

Paint it however you want it' date=' but it is still last place.[/quote']

 

The plan all along was to just try to keep it together while the team put itself back together. They've hung around far better than I would have ever expected. If they pick up an elite pitcher and put Bard back into bullpen, this division is very very winnable.

[a700hitter]

With Morales pitching 4 1/3 innings today, I wonder if they might give him a spot start before Dice K is ready. Atchison can pitch 4 innings too.

[Palodios]

You can yell at me all you want. But' date=' I think the Bard as a starter thing failed. He isn’t showing he is going to be a good front of the rotation pitcher (he needs to be) nor is he showing he is a good 5th guy. He is a one inning guy and that’s it. Not everyone can be a starter. He is more valuable in the bullpen, not as a 5th starter that can’t get past 6 innings.[/quote']

 

Has anyone defended Bard as a starter today?

[a700hitter]

The plan all along was to just try to keep it together while the team put itself back together. They've hung around far better than I would have ever expected. If they pick up an elite pitcher and put Bard back into bullpen' date=' this division is very very winnable.[/quote']I didn't say that it wasn't.

[Palodios]

I didn't say that it wasn't.

 

Well then we are in agreement.

[NativeBostonian]

Has anyone defended Bard as a starter today?

 

No, but I got hated on the last time I posted something like that.

[Palodios]

No' date=' but I got hated on the last time I posted something like that.[/quote']

 

Bard has been the biggest story all year. People have taken sides on it this year... but after today's performance I think the story has its ending.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Well then we are in agreement.

 

Well then we are in agreement.

 

Are you mocking me <_>

[a700hitter]

Bard has been the biggest story all year. People have taken sides on it this year... but after today's performance I think the story has its ending.

I was really hoping that he had turned the corner in his last start. It looks like it was one step forward and two huge steps back. He has not been progressing.

[SoxSport]

Right now, I would switch Bard and Aceves. Aceves should be starting--he has 3 good pitches.

Bard should be closing--he has 1 good pitch. A closer needs 1 pitch. A starter needs 3 pitches.

 

It's really that simple, Ben.

[Palodios]

Are you mocking me <_>

 

Have you ever been too lazy to type something that someone else has already said?

[NativeBostonian]

I don't think Bard is a bad pitcher, he is just in the wrong spot. He needs to be a setup guy or a closer. He doesn't have what it takes to be a starter.

[NativeBostonian]

Right now, I would switch Bard and Aceves. Aceves should be starting--he has 3 good pitches.

Bard should be closing--he has 1 good pitch. A closer needs 1 pitch. A starter needs 3 pitches.

 

It's really that simple, Ben.

That's what I was saying for a while. They have those two mixed up.

[FredLynn]

Bard has been the biggest story all year. People have taken sides on it this year... but after today's performance I think the story has its ending.

 

Not quite. We can decide what WE think ought to be done. The upcoming decision by the FO will serve for me, at least, as a barometer of just how stubborn and stupid they are. Keep Bard in the rotation and they win the Clay Buchholz Moron of the Year Award. DL him in preparation for a return to the pen and its a step in the right direction. I hope its not too late. This decision should not have taken this long.

[FredLynn]

Right now, I would switch Bard and Aceves. Aceves should be starting--he has 3 good pitches.

Bard should be closing--he has 1 good pitch. A closer needs 1 pitch. A starter needs 3 pitches.

 

It's really that simple, Ben.

 

No way we should tamper with Aceves' fine performance as closer. One potentially ruined pitcher is enough.

[a700hitter]

Not quite. We can decide what WE think ought to be done. The upcoming decision by the FO will serve for me' date=' at least, as a barometer of just how stubborn and stupid they are. Keep Bard in the rotation and they win the Clay Buchholz Moron of the Year Award. DL him in preparation for a return to the pen and its a step in the right direction. I hope its not too late. This decision should not have taken this long.[/quote']

Baseball is full of idiots. There are far more drunks and incompetents in the sport than highly intelligent people. It's always been that way. It's no different today. The best you can hope for is that your competitor is a bigger idiot.

[FredLynn]

Ok, I agree that it is time to pull the plug on the Bard experiment.

 

It sounded like you were saying "We're in last place, we're a last place team" which obviously isn't the case.

 

Well, we ARE a last place team-right now. Look at the standings. We are exactly as good as our record says we are. But we are improving. If we continue to PITCH well we will compete for a playoff spot. When our injured guys make it back we should really have an offensive juggernaut.

[FredLynn]

Baseball is full of idiots. There are far more drunks and incompetents in the sport than highly intelligent people. It's always been that way. It's no different today. The best you can hope for is that your competitor is a bigger idiot.

 

I have the utmost faith in the Yankees to supercede the idiocy of our FO. The Rays, not so much. They are very competent there.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Well' date=' we ARE a last place team-right now. Look at the standings. We are exactly as good as our record says we are. But we are improving. If we continue to PITCH well we will compete for a playoff spot. When our injured guys make it back we should really have an offensive juggernaut.[/quote']

 

There's a big difference between being a team in last place and being a last place team.

[jung]

I would not let Bard close. It does not matter whether he has heat or not. How many times do we have to see it to recognize that when he is wild he is wild from the first pitch he throws. Ya' want that out there in the 9th inning?

 

The Sox backed themselves into this situation when they did not get themselves a 5th starter that they could use at the start of the season and at that point the pen was a train wreck that really needed Acives.

 

I don't know how far off Cook is at this point but the Sox either need Cook back or dice ready or a start from somebody before 5 comes up in the rotation again. Not sure what the schedule looks like for the next couple weeks but the Sox have played a tremendous number of games over a short stretch the past few weeks. Maybe there are a few days off coming that will allow them to go with 4 starters for a turn in the rotation. Maybe that is enough time to get Cook or dice in here.

 

If you can play a game per day for 20 days you can play 4 games in 5 days without a 5th starter at least for a turn. I would do that before putting Bard out there again. However I would not want to lose sight of Bard having filled a hole that the Sox left themselves with and did it pretty admirably for two months. Who knows what he will ever be from here but he did do a heck of a job at a point when the Sox would have been up the creek without a paddle.

[FredLynn]

There's a big difference between being a team in last place and being a last place team.

 

They are the exact same in my book. At the end of the season the team in last place deserves to finish in last place no matter how much talent that team has. Same is true on June 3.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

[evilhand]

When your starting pitcher shits all over himself from the first inning' date=' it will suck the life out of a team. You can't win them all, but Bard is not able to show any consistency as a starter. He can't get the walks under control. That's just fatal. Today marks the one-third mark for the season I think. The experiment has gone long enough without results this season. He can try again next spring. maybe he can get a spot start or two during the remainder of this season, but they need to pull the plug on him now. It' June 3rd -- the one-third mark for the season, and the Sox are still in last place.[/quote']

 

I don't think enough credit is being given to Hutchinson. A good young pitcher had a good day on the mound. When good pitchers have good days, offenses get quiet.

[Palodios]

I don't think enough credit is being given to Hutchinson. A good young pitcher had a good day on the mound. When good pitchers have good days' date=' offenses get quiet.[/quote']

 

[evilhand]

 

He was their number 2 pitching prospect coming into the year and has been talked about as having a good chance to be a solid number 3 type pitcher. No one is calling him an ace, but he's a good young pitcher. His early inconsistency is to be expected from a rookie. He has solid stuff and he was throwing well today.

 

Not every poor day by the offense is simply the a failure to show up by the home town boys. Sometimes credit should be given to the opposing pitchers for having a good day.

[SoxFanForsyth]

They are the exact same in my book. At the end of the season the team in last place deserves to finish in last place no matter how much talent that team has. Same is true on June 3.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

So would you say that the Orioles are a 1st place team?? Because going into today's games, they were in 1st place.

 

The Sox may be in last place right now, but that doesn't mean that they are a last place team. It's early and they will rebound from their poor start. It's just like after 4 games, if the Orioles started out 4-0 and the Yankees started 0-4. The Yankees are not a worse team than the Orioles.

 

Just like the Red Sox aren't a worse team than the Blue Jays or Orioles. The top 3 will be the Sox, Rays, and Yanks. If the Sox can keep pitching, they'll score plenty of runs to win a ton of games before the reinforcements come back. Then, once Ells, Crawford, Bailey, and Ross get back, this team will be in great shape and will make the PS this year.

[jung]

Interesting month coming up...God I hate this interleague play. At least a bunch of the interleague coming up is at home. We get Nationals, Marlins, Cubs and Braves and it really does eat up most of the month. I guess playing them is still a break in the schedule compared with playing more AL East games. I think it ends with these same Jays only in Boston and Mariners.

 

July could be the real make or break. Hope the CWS are a break by the time we get to them. If not July is nasty.

[redsoxbeatz]

Bards mind is ruined? What a pussy. So what if you fail at being a SP, look how many there are that succeed compared to how many people try to become one. Suck it up Bard and pitch for our pen.

[Station 13]

Bards mind is ruined? What a pussy. So what if you fail at being a SP' date=' look how many there are that succeed compared to how many people try to become one. Suck it up Bard and pitch for our pen.[/quote']

 

Wait what, where you getting that from?

[Station 13]

As poorly as Bard has done, Lester is about 10 times worse. I don't think he has a win against an AL East team since last August. The O's should be rolling in this week and Lester need to step up.