So how about Daniel Nava?

[jung]

I can see Nava as a backup someplace including here. Remember I said backup not platoon. The likelihood is without doubt greater that he would stick in that role with a perennial lower rung team but the idea that he would ride pine here as a replacement it not totally whacky. Here would have been more likely if they had kept Reddick cause Kalish is not a power hitter and won't be even with a healthy shoulder. Need more power from THIS outfield. Not a reflection on Nava...just the way it is.

[seabeachfred]

Thats fine, at least we have something to talk about hahahaha.

 

Good exchange by you and Bellhorn but it shows how desperate we all are if Nava is one of

the best things we can be discussing SCM. I mean we could have been talking about Kalish but once again the Red Sox's front office plans blew up in their faces the year before when they sent Ryan down to Pawtucket because Drew had one more year on his bloated contract---despite the fact that he was an injury waiting to happen. It did and he was useless, but in the meantime Kalish got hurt on the farm and didn't play the rest of 2011 and still hadn't healed this season. That is why we're talking about Nava. It Kalish would have been kept on the Red Sox in 2011 after his surprisingly good half season with us in 2010 we wouldn't need to be talking about a scrub.

 

Come to think of it we seem to make these kind of mistakes yearly. In 2010, boy blundeer genius Epstein decided to move Ellsbury, coming off a solid season, to left field to "save his legs"---if you remember that gem spouted by Theo the Dunce. Well Ells got stealrolled by Beltre and was lost for the season. Think if Mike Cameron would have been out there and gotten hurt we might have been better off?

 

I keep waiting for our bumbling front office to make a good decision for a change. Maybe in 2013 or '14 or '15---maybe by the next decade.:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

[SCM33]

It's a classic case of confirmation bias. They went into it saying he sucks, he started out brilliant, faltered, tended down to average, and the conclusion is he sucks.

 

I don't suppose it occurred to any of the geniuses-in-hindsight here that this was functionally Nava's rookie season? And that while physical development is unlikely, he still has a chance to develop his approach through experience? Nava was never going to get by on physical gifts, but he doesn't need to. How far would he really have to progress from where he finished the season to be a worthwhile tweener COF? He'd need to gain exactly 8 points in overall OPS to become a starting caliber COF on a developing team. That's really not that hard to contemplate.

 

People get these ideas stuck in their head and they lose all grasp of reality or sense of perspective. Nava isn't nearly as good as he was during his crazy run, and he isn't nearly as bad as he was during his crazy slump. He actually improved his chances at sticking in the bigs overall this year pretty significantly. Why is that so hard for people to grasp?

 

It's really no that inconcievable that Nava could work out here, especially if he can refine his switch hitting and stay out of the big nosedive slumps. He could even remain a pleasant surprise next year -- UNLESS your demand if corner outfielders is 40 HR's and a middle of the order bat, which Nava could never possibly be, but in that case I'd quite bluntly like to ask you what planet you've been on over the last 5 years because those guys are disappearing from the league. Corner outfield isn't nearly the power position it was 10 years ago when Manny was in his prime.

 

Hes 30. In terms of an "average" MLB career, hes already plateau'd. He is heading down if anything. He is not going to refine switch hitting at 30, in fact....most who can't do it well have given up on it by the age of 30.

 

Im with MVP. Please trade him so this nonsense stops.

[Bellhorn04]

"Hello, Ben? Ben Cherington? Hey, Ben, how's it going, man? Um, listen, man, I'm calling on behalf of the gang here at the Talksox forum. You've heard of us, right? Yeah, I figured that. Look, Ben, we have a favor to ask. If it's not too big of a deal, could you please trade Daniel Nava this offseason? Yeah, we keep having these really silly arguments about him and we're getting tired of it. You can do it? Hey, that's awesome. Tell Daniel good luck for us. And good luck to you with the rebuilding thing."

[jung]

I suspect Nava will end up being a throw in on some sort of deal in the offseason. Have to expect some number of deals. Either way it can't matter much.

[TutGadol]

I suspect Nava will end up being a throw in on some sort of deal in the offseason. Have to expect some number of deals. Either way it can't matter much.

 

Yeah I agree with that. Throw in in another meaningless trade. If he stays he can provide back up platoon in case Sweeny fails or Ross suddenly remembers he's only a beast against lefties.

[Palodios]

You are right. At 30 years old, after spending a career in the minor leagues, we have found a diamond in the rough.

 

He will be in AAA to start next year, regardless of what you think he is.

 

There is a reason why he's amassed a staggering 428 at bats at the age of 30.

 

There are people smarter than you, who can look past an "average" season by a guy who played meaningless games during a 93 loss season.

 

I just don't understand the Nava hate. He's never going to hit like Manny Ramirez. He's never going to field like Carl Crawford in his prime. Is he the answer for the future? No. Does he have the versatility to play multiple positions? No.

 

However, he's a player than will give you near-average stats on a below average team, and he'll work his ass off to try to stay here. Everyone complained and complained and complained about Scutaro for being just that-- a journeyman who took years to get a chance in the majors, and turned solid, but not great. Then we got Aviles, and now what is everyone saying?

[a700hitter]

I just don't understand the Nava hate. He's never going to hit like Manny Ramirez. He's never going to field like Carl Crawford in his prime. Is he the answer for the future? No. Does he have the versatility to play multiple positions? No.

 

However, he's a player than will give you near-average stats on a below average team, and he'll work his ass off to try to stay here. Everyone complained and complained and complained about Scutaro for being just that-- a journeyman who took years to get a chance in the majors, and turned solid, but not great. Then we got Aviles, and now what is everyone saying?

I don't think anyone hates him. They just hate the debate whether he is an MLB talent.

[Palodios]

I don't think anyone hates him. They just hate the debate whether he is an MLB talent.

 

The fact that some people don't recognize him as a MLB talent is hate on him. By now he should have proven he's not just a AAAA played and he's officially a meh major leaguer.

[SCM33]

The fact that some people don't recognize him as a MLB talent is hate on him. By now he should have proven he's not just a AAAA played and he's officially a meh major leaguer.

 

Repeat what you just said.

 

That's the whole point. Some around here argue that he is better than what you just described. He is a dime a dozen 4th or 5th OF.

 

His value.........is that he will be easily replaced.

[a700hitter]

The fact that some people don't recognize him as a MLB talent is hate on him. By now he should have proven he's not just a AAAA played and he's officially a meh major leaguer.

Oh, a debate over whether a guy ha MLB talent level is hate. That's really stupid.

[Bellhorn04]

As crazy as it is, even with the lengthy slide he had, Nava ended up with the second-highest OBP on the team. He was one of the few hitters on the 2012 team with some patience.

[Behindenemylines]

We need an OF who can hit with some power and play defense that doesn't kill us. If Nava is any more then a depth player at AAA then we are in for another 2012. He doesn't see Boston this year if it wasn't for all of the injuries to the outfield. He was depth player this year and because of all of the lost games by outfielders he got significant playing time.

[Palodios]

Oh, a debate over whether a guy ha MLB talent level is hate. That's really stupid.

 

Look who's doing the baiting now.

[Behindenemylines]

That this thread has continued on this long means the Nation needs the Hot Stove to begin soon. To waste this much time debating the merits of D Nova is crazy.

[mvp 78]

Can't believe this guy will be on the opening day roster...

[jung]

Then again you are talking about THIS opening day roster. Still looks like the Boston Mid-packs to me.

[mvp 78]

I'm pretty sure I'll be spending more time at McCoy Stadium than Fenway this season. Cheaper, easier to get to, same on field product.

[jung]

I'm pretty sure I'll be spending more time at McCoy Stadium than Fenway this season. Cheaper, easier to get to, same on field product.

 

A cold shiver just went right up Benny Boy's spine.

[seabeachfred]

Is this the thread that simply will not die or go away? Look, I know we all have intelligence is various quantities on this board, but why are we talking about Daniel Nava. He is not a ML starting outfielder. He gets off to a good start and then fades badly. He is a nice story in that no one signed him and it took him eons to make the grade, but let's just let them make a movie on it and send this guy off to Triple AAA to finish out his career. If Nava is a co-starting outfielder, platooning with Gomes this coming year, we are dead in the water. He is not a Major League ballplayer and Lucchino has to stop dreaming that he is, or whoever the hell likes this guy.

[mvp 78]

He'll be on the 25 man roster, Fred. Prepare yourself now.

[Bellhorn04]

If the season started today Nava would be #5 on the depth chart for outfielders, right? Ellsbury in centre, Victorino in right, platoon of Kalish & Gomes in left.

[mvp 78]

I just think it's interesting that LL wanted deep depth, but Nava will still be suiting up. I just don't see the FO accomplishing what they set out to.

[User Name]

I didn't know the 25-man roster was set already.

[mvp 78]

I didn't know the 25-man roster was set already.

 

It's not set, but who else would be the 5th OF?

[User Name]

It's not set, but who else would be the 5th OF?

 

We'll just have to wait and see. I personally think they'll go with 4 OF and turn Ciriaco into a super-utility guy.

[a700hitter]

Nava should never be anything more than an emergency call up after 3 injuries to your OF. If Nava comes North with the club in April, that will be another clue that we have a poorly constructed team. I can't believe that we will have 4 catchers and nava as a 5th OFer to start the season. There still must be some moves to be made.

[Palodios]

I would like to see the Red Sox go with only 4 OF and add an extra bullpen arm until something changes. It could help to support the rotation-- especially Lackey-- since they have been a weakness in the past.

 

I'm looking at the depth in the bullpen, and it will be very difficult deciding between the last few spots as-is.

[jung]

By last few spots do you mean last openings?....I am not sure if you are referring to the quality of bullpen arm or last few spots as in who is pitching in the late innings.

[seabeachfred]

Well no matter how you slice it guys, most of us are of the opinion that Nava shouldn't be one of the 25 men on the team when it comes to Boston in April. He's a fill in and nothing more. What we better concern ourselves with is having enough solid arms in the bullpen to be able to carry on for our starters if they wind up being less than what we need them to be. And if Napoli is finally signed we cannot keep four catchers and in my opinion we have to give Lavarnway a good long look this year.