So how about Daniel Nava?

[User Name]

Why the big buzz over a 5th OF? He does one thing well, which is getting on base, and has improved his D. An adequate replacement.

 

Btw Jacko, your schtick is getting really really annoying, no offense.

[jacksonianmarch]

Why the big buzz over a 5th OF? He does one thing well, which is getting on base, and has improved his D. An adequate replacement.

 

Btw Jacko, your schtick is getting really really annoying, no offense.

 

It's not a schtick my friend, it is just trying to ground our friend Dojji. And if being a modicum of levity is a schtick, well then maybe I do have one.

[User Name]

It's not a schtick my friend' date=' it is just trying to ground our friend Dojji. And if being a modicum of levity is a schtick, well then maybe I do have one.[/quote']

 

Levity? Don't kid yourself.

 

Anyways, the truth is, as usual, near the middle of the two sides arguing. Not as good as Dojji makes him out to be, not as bad as you and a700 make him out to be. Just a replacement-level guy with a good eye and contact skills.

[jacksonianmarch]

Levity? Don't kid yourself.

 

Anyways, the truth is, as usual, near the middle of the two sides arguing. Not as good as Dojji makes him out to be, not as bad as you and a700 make him out to be. Just a replacement-level guy with a good eye and contact skills.

 

tell me where I said anything different about the bolded section. I said he was a replacement level guy or below. Nothing more

[User Name]

tell me where I said anything different about the bolded section. I said he was a replacement level guy or below. Nothing more

 

"Or below" "afterthought" what? He's a fifth OF. My point is that you're making such a huge effort to put the guy down, when there's really not a lot to put down. He is what he is.

[a700hitter]

tell me where I said anything different about the bolded section. I said he was a replacement level guy or below. Nothing more

Neither have I. In fact, I said in a prior post that his skill level falls just short of major league standards. He doesn't miss by much, but he misses.

[jacksonianmarch]

"Or below" "afterthought" what? He's a fifth OF. My point is that you're making such a huge effort to put the guy down' date=' when there's really not a lot to put down. He is what he is.[/quote']

 

UN, you are overblowing the issue here. The only person I am trying to ground here is Dojji. You, me, a700, and most of the forum arent in the weeds on this issue. Only Dojji thinks he could be a big league regular. The rest of us here know he isnt going to be anything more than a backup.

[User Name]

UN' date=' you are overblowing the issue here. The only person I am trying to ground here is Dojji. You, me, a700, and most of the forum arent in the weeds on this issue. Only Dojji thinks he could be a big league regular. The rest of us here know he isnt going to be anything more than a backup.[/quote']

 

Yeah, i kinda see your point. I saw in another thread how he's worried that Nava will be DFA'd once everyone is healthy. So what? He's not that good.

[kapsis21]

We'll see if you are saying that by the end of the yr. Plus' date=' Nix would never be in the convo since he is an infielder. Jones is an adequate 4th OFer since he brings power and a huge platoon split. He OPS'd over .800 last yr in that role and hit with power while giving our lefty outfielders a break vs lefty pitchers.[/quote']

 

oh i bet i am going to pull this one out at the end of the year.. A Jones can only hit lefties. thats it.. his D is crapshoot..

[jacksonianmarch]

oh i bet i am going to pull this one out at the end of the year.. A Jones can only hit lefties. thats it.. his D is crapshoot..

 

Yes, his D is terrible. His double digit gold gloves and rifle arm prove that. Jones isnt what he was, but in a COF spot, he is a very good defensive OFer. And he only faces lefties unless we are desperate, so the platoon split doesnt really matter

[User Name]

Isn't that the whole point of a 4th/5th OF? It's a guy who's not good enough to be a regular (In Jones' case, he can't hit righties anymore) but who has enough tools to play in specific situations (lefties in Jones' case.

[kapsis21]

Yes' date=' his D is terrible. His double digit gold gloves and rifle arm prove that. Jones isnt what he was, but in a COF spot, he is a very good defensive OFer. And he only faces lefties unless we are desperate, so the platoon split doesnt really matter[/quote']

 

double digit gold gloves were back in his younger days. lets not talk abt the past.

A Jones 9RBis .226BA 72PA

Daniel Nava .350 with 11RBis 55PA enough said.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yes, enough said, emphatically!! 1/3 through the season! SSS my friend

[kapsis21]

Yes' date=' enough said, emphatically!! 1/3 through the season! SSS my friend[/quote']

 

yes for a 6th Ofer he is way better than your current one

[Emmz]

He stinks, but you could have someone like Trevor Plouffe or Drew Butera or Brian Dozier being your primary backups that even have to make the occasional start.

[Dojji]

"He stinks" is just a little bizarre when the kid has a 1.000+ OPS at the moment. I could get that people don't trust him to hold it -- heck, I don't. But come on, this "stinker" has carried the team to a certain extent, and played a big role in propelling them back to .500 territory.

 

Anyways, the truth is, as usual, near the middle of the two sides arguing. Not as good as Dojji makes him out to be, not as bad as you and a700 make him out to be. Just a replacement-level guy with a good eye and contact skills.

 

An OF, even a corner OF, who can get on base consistently can start on many of the bottom 15 teams in MLB.

 

Lest we forget, ZIPS saw this coming. I got shouted down pretty good when I brought up in the preseason that one of the ZIPS projections predicted Nava could pull in a ~.750 OPS. It doesn't mean much now, except to suggest some level of sustainability. Frankly, I think that's a pretty good split-the-difference point for him, and if that OPS is weighted to the OBP side of the equation a guy like Nava can win a job.

 

He's not a bench player. He's not replacement level. He's already proven that to my satisfaction. From what I've seen, he's a David Dejesus. A below average journeyman caliber starting MLB corner outfielder. He has the talent to hit .290+ in the big leagues and get on base well enough to be worth a shot at the top of someone's order. And if that's all it is that may well be enough.

[Emmz]

"He stinks" is just a little bizarre when the kid has a 1.000+ OPS at the moment. I could get that people don't trust him to hold it -- heck, I don't. But come on, this "stinker" has carried the team to a certain extent, and played a big role in propelling them back to .500 territory.

 

 

 

An OF, even a corner OF, who can get on base consistently can start on many of the bottom 15 teams in MLB.

 

Lest we forget, ZIPS saw this coming. I got shouted down pretty good when I brought up in the preseason that one of the ZIPS projections predicted Nava could pull in a ~.750 OPS. It doesn't mean much now, except to suggest some level of sustainability. Frankly, I think that's a pretty good split-the-difference point for him, and if that OPS is weighted to the OBP side of the equation a guy like Nava can win a job.

 

He's not a bench player. He's not replacement level. He's already proven that to my satisfaction. From what I've seen, he's a David Dejesus. A below average journeyman caliber starting MLB corner outfielder. He has the talent to hit .290+ in the big leagues and get on base well enough to be worth a shot at the top of someone's order. And if that's all it is that may well be enough.

 

Cool story bro, he'll be riding the bench most of his career if he doesn't spend it in the minors.

 

We get it, you like underdogs like Scrotey and Nava and Lin.

[Bellhorn04]

I like underdogs too...especially the ones who hit 350/491/600 over 14 games.

[Emmz]

I like the underdogs who have .800+ OPS for their careers, like Dustin Pedroia, except he actually has the talent to do it, you know, for years.

 

Didn't say I don't appreciate when crappy players play beyond their abilities, but he's still a crappy player.

[mvp 78]

I like the underdogs who have .800+ OPS for their careers, like Dustin Pedroia, except he actually has the talent to do it, you know, for years.

 

Didn't say I don't appreciate when crappy players play beyond their abilities, but he's still a crappy player.

 

Pedroia was a very high draft pick. Not really an underdog.

[seabeachfred]

After Tony C got beaned' date=' he should have played the next day. What a puss, right Fred?[/quote']

 

Cut the crap '78. We have players who are slow healers and if you didn't learn that about Ellsbury in 2010 you should of hell have learned it by now. A player falls on him and he is out for months? The guy is talented but soft---and he doesn't heal well at all. His ass should be back in the lineup by mid-June but knowing his paper mache body he most likely won't be back until late July or August---if then. As for Crawford, what a f***in' waste of money. My guess is the Rays k new about is tin body and g ladly bidded him a fair adieu and here it is almost June and he still is no way near ready to play. Kalish? How the hell long does it take a guy that young to get mended and ready to play? These guys either train wrong, are being handled by trainers who are inept or are just physical pussies. I'm tired of hearing of this s***. Get the hell back in the lineup and start prpoducing. You can play as long as you can stand the pain. When you're tough, you can play semi-hurt. When you're a wuss you sit out and become the new JD Drew.

[jung]

Nava is not a crappy player. He is in fact a very good player. He simply has not got anything like the talent of the typical ML ballplayer. However he plays very smart, very focused baseball, seldom making a mistake either at the plate, on the base paths or in the field. Those are his strengths.

 

Raw talent is his weakness. He is so small that he is almost puny...he is certainly smaller than Pedey without Pedey's extremely strong wrists.

 

But the kid is a pleasure to watch because he plays such pure baseball. How I wish some of the more talented members of the Red Sox played the game nearly as well as Nava.

 

I don't think he will stick as I suspect the skills he exhibits playing the game will be overmatched by his lack of raw talent. But I have nothing but respect for him for the way he plays the game. While I certainly would not credit him with the clubs recent W/L record, I am also pretty convinced that without him a couple of those wins would have ended up on the other side of the ledger.

[Emmz]

Pedroia was a very high draft pick. Not really an underdog.

You're acting like I'm comparing the two. Peddy had a lot of questions surrounding his size, the fact that he's not very athletic for such a small player, and whether he had the range or arm to play in the middle of the infield. I also don't think very many people expected Pedroia to be as awesome as he was, right from the very start. He would have been way down on your list of guys who you'd think would have an .800+ OPS during his rookie season.

 

Nava's just a scrub who plays hard.

[seabeachfred]

Ellsbury is looking at an early July return. Crawford is looking for a possible return right around the All-Star Break. Kalish will probably make a June return in the minors. He is in an extended Spring Training right now, so he is actually getting some action. Ellsbury had full range of motion in his shoulder 10 days ago. Crawford is expected to start taking swings within the next couple of days.

 

I think that ideally the future does involve Crawford, Ellsbury, and Kalish. Kalish will return to the minors this year and if he has a solid comeback after his injury, then I think we see him as a starter next year. That of course means that he does not get injured again. We are financially invested in Crawford for the next few years. He is obviously part of the future for the next few years, as long as he can avoid getting injured. Our OF needs to stay healthy. Ellsbury is a big question mark. Do we try to lock up Ellsbury long-term or do we let him walk and try to get another guy in the OF? That is a question that no one knows the answer to as of now. Sweeney and Ross are two guys in the OF that could be a good combo for a platoon role in RF. Even if Kalish starts in RF for us next year, Ross and Sweeney could be two guys that are huge for us off the bench and as depth players. Much better options than McDonald.

 

No one can predict the OF situation. Injuries can happen at any time. I do know that Crawford is going to be around. I know that they are definitely going to give Kalish an opportunity. I might even be willing to be that they are going to try to lock up Ellsbury long-term. What is going to happen with Josh Hamilton? He is going to be a free agent after this year. Can the Red Sox make a real run to sign Hamilton? If so, that means we do not even probably offer Jacoby arbitration next year, but then again that is a long shot. I do not think Ellsbury can have another power season like he had for us last year. I do think that he can be a huge part of this team for years to come though.

 

Thanks RSF3 for the update. Good to get some solid info instead of the smart ass remarks I got from Rice. It does get very old with all our injuries; we've had too damn many of them the past few years and to me something is very wrong somewhere. Maybe out luck changes when we get these guys back. Thanks again.

[User Name]

Cut the crap '78. We have players who are slow healers and if you didn't learn that about Ellsbury in 2010 you should of hell have learned it by now. A player falls on him and he is out for months? The guy is talented but soft---and he doesn't heal well at all. His ass should be back in the lineup by mid-June but knowing his paper mache body he most likely won't be back until late July or August---if then. As for Crawford' date=' what a f***in' waste of money. My guess is the Rays k new about is tin body and g ladly bidded him a fair adieu and here it is almost June and he still is no way near ready to play. Kalish? How the hell long does it take a guy that young to get mended and ready to play? These guys either train wrong, are being handled by trainers who are inept or are just physical pussies. I'm tired of hearing of this s***. Get the hell back in the lineup and start prpoducing. You can play as long as you can stand the pain. When you're tough, you can play semi-hurt. When you're a wuss you sit out and become the new JD Drew.[/quote']

 

All of this s*** is very easy to talk sitting on your couch. Have you ever had a broken rib, let alone multiple? Maybe he's a slow healer, but how does that make him a "physical pussy"? GTFO.

[User Name]

Lest we forget, ZIPS saw this coming. I got shouted down pretty good when I brought up in the preseason that one of the ZIPS projections predicted Nava could pull in a ~.750 OPS. It doesn't mean much now, except to suggest some level of sustainability. Frankly, I think that's a pretty good split-the-difference point for him, and if that OPS is weighted to the OBP side of the equation a guy like Nava can win a job.

 

He's not a bench player. He's not replacement level. He's already proven that to my satisfaction. From what I've seen, he's a David Dejesus. A below average journeyman caliber starting MLB corner outfielder. He has the talent to hit .290+ in the big leagues and get on base well enough to be worth a shot at the top of someone's order. And if that's all it is that may well be enough.

 

Bench player. And what does "proving that to your satisfaction" mean? He's played less than 20 games. He can get on base and hit for some contact, and it's admirable how hard he plays the game, but that's about it. Join reality.

[seabeachfred]

All of this s*** is very easy to talk sitting on your couch. Have you ever had a broken rib' date=' let alone multiple? Maybe he's a slow healer, but how does that make him a "physical pussy"? GTFO.[/quote']

 

This is the second year out of three that Ellsbury has missed considerable playing time because of injuries. Yes, I've broken my ribs, three of them, but it didn't take me seven months and then some to get back into training. As for the one this year no one should be laid up that long because some infielder fell on you. The guy is a slow healer and he is very very injury prone--and I say that as one who is a big fan of Jacoby's and hope he is resigned. But the facts bear it out; he's injury prone and a very very slow healer.

 

He needs to toughen up.

[jung]

I think unfortunately, a number or the Red Sox injuries are large joint and/or bone injuries or are also injuries that are lower back or somewhere related to the player's core.

 

Unlike football where you can just bind up ribs and even shoulders (been there done that) and play reasonably well, baseball requires freedom and range of motion. About the only thing you can bind up on a baseball player that will allow him to still play I think is something like an ankle, maybe a knee, possibly a hip. Seems to me that anything from the waist up would be pretty tough to play with and even the waist down injuries would be pretty tough if they were severe enough. Everything from the waist up needs to move pretty freely or the player just can't play. Unfortunately if I am not mistaken, with the exception of Cook all of our injuries are large joint or bone injuries from the waist up.

[Bellhorn04]

Personally I'm finding it a little comical how much abuse Nava is taking in this thread. Is this all a backlash against Dojji or something? I understand that Nava's potential is limited but his numbers are pretty respectable. He had a .926 OPS at Pawtucket and his major league line now stands at .264/.383/.408. Also he's got 37 RBI in 201 major league AB's, which translates to a 100 RBI season based on about 550 AB's.

[User Name]

This is the second year out of three that Ellsbury has missed considerable playing time because of injuries. Yes, I've broken my ribs, three of them, but it didn't take me seven months and then some to get back into training. As for the one this year no one should be laid up that long because some infielder fell on you. The guy is a slow healer and he is very very injury prone--and I say that as one who is a big fan of Jacoby's and hope he is resigned. But the facts bear it out; he's injury prone and a very very slow healer.

 

He needs to toughen up.

 

Broken ribs and a shoulder subluxation? Those are real-deal injuries caused by impact plays, not boo-boos. Be realistic, it's not a "toughen up" problem.