5/7 @ Royals

[a700hitter]

Back to last night's game, it was sweet to finally get a win. To provide some perspective, let's remember that KC has the second to worst record in all of baseball. Secondly, the Orioles who swept the Sox at home and fought them tooth and nail in 2 extra inning games got trashed by Texas 14-3 in their first game after leaving Fenway. Neither the Sox nor the O's can compete with Texas.

[SoxSport]

Youkilis on the bench is not an option. It ain't gonna happen. He has an OPS in the 900's when healthy. You don't sit that on the bench.

 

Yeah. Youks is definitely a problem when he comes back. Too bad 1b is closed.

 

The answer is to trade him--for 50 cents on the dollar.

[Laser Show]

Back to last night's game' date=' it was sweet to finally get a win. To provide some perspective, let's remember that KC has the second to worst record in all of baseball. Secondly, the Orioles who swept the Sox at home and fought them tooth and nail in 2 extra inning games got trashed by Texas 14-3 in their first game after leaving Fenway. Neither the Sox nor the O's can compete with Texas.[/quote']

 

Not many teams can right now. Texas is playing lights out baseball

[a700hitter]

Two things of which I am certain:

 

1. WMB will not play SS for the Sox except in the case of an emergency.

2. Youkilis will initially reclaim 3B when healthy, unless Middlebrooks goes on an unprecedented tear in the next week making people compare him to Pujols and Miggy Cabrera.

[a700hitter]

Yeah. Youks is definitely a problem when he comes back. Too bad 1b is closed.

 

The answer is to trade him--for 50 cents on the dollar.

and eat salary?

[Bellhorn04]

We don't have the answer on Youkilis yet. But it's all in good hands with Ben Cherries.

[SoxFanForsyth]

and eat salary?

 

You eat 3mm. You trade for Thornton. Chicago gets $5.5mm off their books next year for the price of 3mm (11.5mm Youk Salary - 3mm eaten = 8.5mm. 8.5mm - 5.5mm owed to Thornton this year = 3mm owed vs 5.5mm owed to Thornton next year). The ChiSox dont have a 3B anyway, so it's a deal that would work out. Try to trade him during his rehab as a salary dump for the White Sox.

[ORS]

This is ridiculous.

 

Every point I make, you can't dispute. Middlebrooks played SS in high school and was drafted as a SS out of HS.

 

Yes, I can. Here are your points:

 

Middlebrooks played SS in HS so that is where he should play now if they try and force him into the lineup, not LF.

 

HS was 5 years ago. He hasn't played SS or OF since then. When playing someone out of their normal position, I choose a less critical position, ie LF. This is a valid dispute. The fact of their histories does not preclude consideration of their current play and mitigation of the impact of the learning curve, which is what I'm doing. No, I can't dispute that it is a fact that he played SS in HS. I can dispute it's relevance to right now, and I am.

 

He misread a flyball off of his bat.

 

If I made decisions off of one anecdotal situation, I'd make a whole truckload of impulsive and wrong decisions. I don't care that he misread a fly ball off of his bat. You see very good defensive OF do this all the time. No matter how many times you bring this up ad nauseum, it proves nothing. I dispute the relevance of this evidence.

 

What else is there besides your opinion, which I place very little value on, that he won't be good enough to be acceptable out there?

[SoxFanForsyth]

This is ridiculous.

 

Every point I make, you can't dispute. Middlebrooks played SS in high school and was drafted as a SS out of HS.

 

QUOTE]

Yes, I can. Here are your points:

 

Middlebrooks played SS in HS so that is where he should play now if they try and force him into the lineup, not LF.

 

HS was 5 years ago. He hasn't played SS or OF since then. When playing someone out of their normal position, I choose a less critical position, ie LF. This is a valid dispute. The fact of their histories does not preclude consideration of their current play and mitigation of the impact of the learning curve, which is what I'm doing. No, I can't dispute that it is a fact that he played SS in HS. I can dispute it's relevance to right now, and I am.

 

He misread a flyball off of his bat.

 

If I made decisions off of one anecdotal situation, I'd make a whole truckload of impulsive and wrong decisions. I don't care that he misread a fly ball off of his bat. You see very good defensive OF do this all the time. No matter how many times you bring this up ad nauseum, it proves nothing. I dispute the relevance of this evidence.

 

What else is there besides your opinion, which I place very little value on, that he won't be good?

 

He is transitioning from one spot on the left side of the infield to another spot on the left side of the infield!! It's not like he hasn't taken a ground ball since 2006. He's shifted over to 3B from SS. I don't understand how you can justify moving him to a position in LF which he has never played before, rather than a position in SS which he has played a significant amount of time AND which his current position translates to well.

 

He's athletic enough to make the transition to one of the most difficult LF in baseball, but he's not athletic enough to transition over to SS?

 

And you completely disregard that Aviles has outfield experience. He was being prepped to play OF. It's unfathomable that, rather than moving a natural SS to SS and a guy who played OF all winter to OF, you want to move a natural SS to LF and leave the guy who trained for OF at SS.

 

It's just mind boggling.

[a700hitter]

You eat 3mm. You trade for Thornton. Chicago gets $5.5mm off their books next year for the price of 3mm (11.5mm Youk Salary - 3mm eaten = 8.5mm. 8.5mm - 5.5mm owed to Thornton this year = 3mm owed vs 5.5mm owed to Thornton next year). The ChiSox dont have a 3B anyway' date=' so it's a deal that would work out. Try to trade him during his rehab as a salary dump for the White Sox.[/quote']Creative, and it could make sense for both teams, but I don't think it happens. Just my opinion.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Can someone please explain something to me -

 

Why are we clamoring so much for a guy who has hit the DL 4+ times in the past 1.5 years, cannot play defense, and has hit .192 with a .648 OPS since July 23rd last year??

 

He was a great player when he was consistently healthy. Those days are long gone. Do we really think that we're the only people who are figuring this out?? We don't think that other GM's have figured this out? Even if Youk gets hot for a week or two, the past 2 years aren't going to just go away. I don't think any GM's are so reactionary that they will deal for a 3B with his injury history and give us any more significant value than we will get if he turns hot during a rehab assignment.

[ORS]

I'm saying that I expect a learning curve at either position. Playing SS at the MLB level is nothing like playing it in the Texas HS league. If he's going to have a learning curve, have it at the least impactful defensive position, LF, not the most important, SS. Is this really all that difficult for you to understand?

 

Middlebrooks is going to have some circus moments due to inexperience no matter where he plays that isn't 3B. I'd rather stick the clown in the corner and not in the middle of the field. I don't care about who played where and when in the past. I'm talking about now, and the reality is that both Middlebrooks and Aviles will have a learning curve if they switch positions. I think you mitigate that by keeping the competent MIF a MIF and asking the athletic corner IF to play corner OF.

 

It's really not mind boggling, it's quite simple. It's damage control.

 

Furthermore, WMB got moved from SS to 3B the moment he hit the organization's farm system. You don't think that happened for a reason?

[ORS]

Can someone please explain something to me -

 

Why are we clamoring so much for a guy who has hit the DL 4+ times in the past 1.5 years, cannot play defense, and has hit .192 with a .648 OPS since July 23rd last year??

 

He was a great player when he was consistently healthy. Those days are long gone. Do we really think that we're the only people who are figuring this out?? We don't think that other GM's have figured this out? Even if Youk gets hot for a week or two, the past 2 years aren't going to just go away. I don't think any GM's are so reactionary that they will deal for a 3B with his injury history and give us any more significant value than we will get if he turns hot during a rehab assignment.

Who is clamoring?

 

We are acknowleding reality. The reality is that when he gets back, he'll be the 3B. They won't trade him for nothing. They will see if he can recover his game.

 

And, they should. The list is long of players who have hit a bump in the road only to recover their game. Youkilis is not yet at the age where you wouldn't be surprised by a precipitous decline. Plus, it's in their best interests to give him a chance. Either he recovers his trade value for the TDL, or, and this is what I think should happen if he gets his stride back, he deepens the heart of the order down the stretch.

[a700hitter]

Furthermore' date=' WMB got moved from SS to 3B the moment he hit the organization's farm system. You don't think that happened for a reason?[/quote']If they thought he could project and develop into a major league SS, who wouldn't love a SS with that kind of bat.

[a700hitter]

Who is clamoring?

 

We are acknowleding reality. The reality is that when he gets back, he'll be the 3B. They won't trade him for nothing. They will see if he can recover his game.

 

And, they should. The list is long of players who have hit a bump in the road only to recover their game. Youkilis is not yet at the age where you wouldn't be surprised by a precipitous decline. Plus, it's in their best interests to give him a chance. Either he recovers his trade value for the TDL, or, and this is what I think should happen if he gets his stride back, he deepens the heart of the order down the stretch.

Unless WMB is on a record setting tear when Youk comes back, Youk will be the starting 3B initially.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'm saying that I expect a learning curve at either position. Playing SS at the MLB level is nothing like playing it in the Texas HS league. If he's going to have a learning curve, have it at the least impactful defensive position, LF, not the most important, SS. Is this really all that difficult for you to understand?

 

Middlebrooks is going to have some circus moments due to inexperience no matter where he plays that isn't 3B. I'd rather stick the clown in the corner and not in the middle of the field. I don't care about who played where and when in the past. I'm talking about now, and the reality is that both Middlebrooks and Aviles will have a learning curve if they switch positions. I think you mitigate that by keeping the competent MIF a MIF and asking the athletic corner IF to play corner OF.

 

It's really not mind boggling, it's quite simple. It's damage control.

 

Furthermore, WMB got moved from SS to 3B the moment he hit the organization's farm system. You don't think that happened for a reason?

 

It happened because he was going to outgrow SS. If he was a defensive liability at SS, why would they put him at 3B rather than OF? That doesn't make any sense at all.

 

You are acting like WMB hasn't fielded a GB since he was 12. He has been playing on the left side of the infield for the past 7+ years. Aviles has played recently in the OF.

 

I understand that both will see growing pains, but if you want to minimize the growing pains, you go with WMB at SS.

 

Either way, WMB should stay at 3B. Moving him to the OF is, as pumpsie put it, extremely short sighted. I'm not punting the season, but at the same time, I don't want to be absorbing lumps this season by putting WMB in the OF and then just have to re-absorb more lumps next year because he's moved back to 3B. If we're going to have him up here, you leave him at 3B where he is comfortable and swinging the bat well. A solid defensive 3B that hits for average and power is extremely rare right now in the farm systems. We have to realize that this is a commodity, and you can't just throw him in the OF as a bandaid.

[Brennan]

Can someone please explain something to me -

 

Why are we clamoring so much for a guy who has hit the DL 4+ times in the past 1.5 years, cannot play defense, and has hit .192 with a .648 OPS since July 23rd last year??

 

He was a great player when he was consistently healthy. Those days are long gone. Do we really think that we're the only people who are figuring this out?? We don't think that other GM's have figured this out? Even if Youk gets hot for a week or two, the past 2 years aren't going to just go away. I don't think any GM's are so reactionary that they will deal for a 3B with his injury history and give us any more significant value than we will get if he turns hot during a rehab assignment.

 

 

I think most of us are actually dreading it. He is obviously declining early at this point, I think he has the wrong build and the worst part is the whiny diva attitude and constant anger at everyone around him caused by his declining skills.

[a700hitter]

The Red Sox are considering putting WMB in the OF:

 

Red Sox Will-ing to be creative

Using 3B in outfield worth try

By Michael Silverman / Red Sox Beat

Wednesday, May 9, 2012 - Updated 2 hours ago

 

KANSAS CITY, Mo. — Just the fact that the Red Sox [team stats] are toying with the idea of Will Middlebrooks as an outfielder qualifies as their most inspired idea since they moved Daniel Bard from the bullpen to the rotation.

 

It’s a longshot that the plan comes to fruition, but that’s not the point.

 

In these Days of Awe and Wonder that are Middlebrooks’ first week as a big leaguer, the club needs to explore every option at its disposal to keep his bat and glove in the big leagues — and in the everyday lineup.

 

When Kevin Youkilis [stats] returns, he returns as the everyday third baseman. General manager Ben Cherington said that yesterday and added that the club views Middlebrooks as a third baseman, now and in the future. That makes all the sense in the world. Anyone who is of the belief that Youkilis is the second coming of Wally Pipp is missing the point. The Red Sox are stronger this year with a healthy Youkilis and a healthy Middlebrooks on the roster.

 

Remove Youkilis (the yahoos are clamoring for a trade immediately) and the Red Sox are weaker.

 

Remove Middlebrooks, and the Red Sox are not as good as they are right now, which isn’t very good in the first place.

 

Next year, the odds of Middlebrooks taking over for Youkilis at third base appear to be overwhelming. In the meantime, for the duration of this season, they need to get creative to figure out a way for Middlebrooks to stick around rather than return to the minor leagues.

 

Moving him to the outfield definitely qualifies as creative.

 

“I don’t know. It’s been tossed around in some quarters,” said manager Bobby Valentine, who sounded as if he probably nodded his head when he heard the news.

 

“Well, it hasn’t been a tabled discussion yet, so I don’t think it even has to enter his domain. That being said, I think he’s a pretty — again small sample — but my (observation) being around him is he’s a pretty mature baseball guy. He’s not going to be flustered by a lot of things.”

 

In 1991, Valentine’s final full year as manager with the Rangers, he oversaw the transition of third baseman Dean Palmer to left field. Palmer made three errors in 29 games.

 

During the next 12 seasons of Palmer’s career, he never shagged another fly from the outfield during a game.

 

“Generally speaking, no — I’ve seen it not work,” Valentine said about the idea of converting third basemen to a corner outfield spot. “I tried some early on. Dean Palmers of the world, I don’t know if you remember him.’’

 

Middlebrooks is no Palmer.

 

“(Middlebrooks is) more fleet,’’ Valentine said. “He runs a little better than a lot of third basemen, which might give him a little upside. It’s just a little different.”

 

Even in spring training, when the club began to experiment with Lars Anderson playing the outfield because his first baseman’s path is blocked by Adrian Gonzalez, the club did not fool around with Middlebrooks moving his position.He played at third base and he stayed at third base.

 

“He’s a good third baseman,” Valentine said.

 

And so is Youkilis, when he is healthy. Right now, as long as Middlebrooks does not run into a rash of lower-half injuries (he left last night’s game with hamstring tightness), he will get plenty of time at the hot corner.

 

He could start shagging some flies in the outfield as well during batting practice.

 

It wouldn’t hurt.

 

That way, when Youkilis gets his job back, the Red Sox [team stats] do not have to be sorry about saying goodbye to Middlebrooks.

 

They can stick him in the outfield and never say farewell at all.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

They saw what a700 said and they considered it

[a700hitter]

They saw what a700 said and they considered it

I think they realized that if a700 and ORS were in such agreement on an issue, there was no other reasonable option.

[a700hitter]

Red Sox contemplate using Will Middlebrooks in outfield

May 8, 2012 06:53 PM

 

By Peter Abraham, Globe Staff

 

KANSAS CITY — If Will Middlebrooks continues to play a pivotal role in the offense, what will the Red Sox do once Kevin Youkilis ready to return? Youkilis is eligible to return on Monday, although it is unlikely he will be activated that day.

 

Middlebrooks was a third baseman in high school and has played only third base professionally. Could he play the outfield?

 

“I don’t know,” Bobby Valentine said. “It’s been tossed around in some quarters like TalkSox. A700Hitter and ORS seem pretty convinced that it is the right way to go"

 

Generally speaking, Valentine said third baseman do not make good corner outfielders.

 

"I've seen it not work a lot," he said. "I've tried some, early on. The Dean Palmers of the world. [Middlebrooks] is more fleet, he runs a little better than a lot of third baseman, which might give him a little upside. It's just a little different.

 

"It hasn't been a table discussion yet. So I don't think it even has to enter his domain. That being said, I think he's a pretty — small sample, my being around him — he's a pretty mature baseball guy. He's not going to be flustered by a lot of things."

[kapsis21]

The Red Sox are considering putting WMB in the OF:

just your avatar instead of ortiz..:thumbsup:

:ortiz:

[SoxFanForsyth]

 

He just laughed at the proposition of Middlebrooks to outfield on his interview with WEEI. And Gammons is on 98.5 right now saying that they don't need to send WMB to the OF because he's the future 3B and they have a lot of ground ball pitchers.

[jung]

Well WMB to the outfield should make Ells happy as a pig in slop as he contemplates his return from injury.

[a700hitter]

Well WMB to the outfield should make Ells happy as a pig in slop as he contemplates his return from injury.

If Ells gets run down by WMB, he'll be out for the decade.

[a700hitter]

He just laughed at the proposition of Middlebrooks to outfield on his interview with WEEI. And Gammons is on 98.5 right now saying that they don't need to send WMB to the OF because he's the future 3B and they have a lot of ground ball pitchers.

Well, if they don't put him in the OF, he'll be going back to AAA. That would be a shame for this team which doesn't have a lot going for it right now.