5/7 @ Royals

[ORS]

I don't think they should try and trade Youkilis, either, FWIW. If they do, who is the backup 1B? Punto? Disgusting.

[ORS]

I don't see how having him play some OF this season would hinder his development at 3B too much. He could continue to work on his skills at 3B with the major league coaching staff and he could spell Youk on occasion. Lot's of guys play more than one position at the beginning of their careers. Didn't Pedroia play an ocassional game at SS at the beginning?

This happens all the time. Pujols played 3B/OF when McGuire was the incumbent in StL. Cabrera did it in FL.

 

It's rare that a prospect can come on the scene and perform right off the bat. Over the next few games, if Middlebrooks shows he can play at this level (not a 1.300 OPS level, but the major league level) you count your blessings and make it work. You don't send him back to RI on the Pawtuckett shuttle just because of some lineup incompatibility. You get creative and play your best players. It's mind boggling that people are resistant to this.

[Laser Show]

I don't think they should try and trade Youkilis' date=' either, FWIW. If they do, who is the backup 1B? Punto? Disgusting.[/quote']

 

Ortiz!

[a700hitter]

I am not big on playing him in the OF. If he continues to perform well' date=' then I think he deserves playing time at 3B, even if Youk is healthy. Youk has been injury prone and has struggled this year. You might as well go with what is working. Has Middlebrooks even played OF before? I think he has the ability to be a LF because he is so athletic, but I don't think that is the best decision. I would prefer if he stays at 3B. Pedroia played SS, but that was also his position in college. I don't know if you can really compare Middlebrooks possibly playing OF with Pedroia playing SS, because Pedroia was already a proven SS in high school and college. Middlebrooks was a SS and P in high school.[/quote']I am sure that the Red Sox organization would prefer to keep him at 3B, but the reality is that Youk is not going to be the third baseman when he comes off the DL. He night need the occasional day off, but not enough to get WMB any significant ABs. He is making a statement with the bat such that they will want to find a spot for him. When Pujols came up, he played 3B, OF and 1B. I don't buy that it will impede his development. If Lars could be trusted in LF after 4 games at AAA, WMB can do it. Staying in the Sox lineup will accelerate his development as a hitter.

[redsoxfan3]

Pedroia is my starting SS in MLB 2K12.

 

I think Pedroia would be a good SS in the majors. His arm is the only question, but his confidence is so good that he would be fine.

 

Also' date=' Miguel Cabrera did this in 2003 when the Marlins had Mike Lowell at 3B. He played LF, RF, and occaissional 3B for them after being called up. Cabrera was fine at 3B after that....until he ballooned and had to go to 1B. Gordon got moved to make room for Moustakas, another good bat and better fielder. WMB doesn't have anyone in the system threatening to push him into the OF permanently. It's a waste of an opportunity to have him hitting bombs in AAA just so he can stay at 3B.[/quote']

 

I still think that if Middlebrooks is raking by the time that Youk comes back, then Middlebrooks deserves to start at 3B. Middlebrooks is more athletic and is probably a better defensive option. Youk has done nothing this year to deserve playing time at 3B over Middlebrooks. Just because he comes back does not mean that we should move one of our best prospects and someone better defensively to the OF just to make room for Youk. That makes no sense to me. It would make more sense if Youk was having a great year before he got hurt, but that is not the case.

 

I don't think they should try and trade Youkilis' date=' either, FWIW. If they do, who is the backup 1B? Punto? Disgusting.[/quote']

 

Would you rather have Youk sit the bench? He would be a good bat off the bench and a decent 1B and 3B backup. Punto would be the backup at 3B and if something does happen to Gonzalez, then Anderson would get called up to play 1B. It seems like Gonzalez plays no matter what. I don't think we need to be too concerned with 1B.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I don't see how having him play some OF this season would hinder his development at 3B too much. He could continue to work on his skills at 3B with the major league coaching staff and he could spell Youk on occasion. Lot's of guys play more than one position at the beginning of their careers. Didn't Pedroia play an ocassional game at SS at the beginning?

 

2B to SS is an interchangeable position. 3B to OF is a much, much different situation.

[redsoxfan3]

I am sure that the Red Sox organization would prefer to keep him at 3B' date=' but the reality is that Youk is not going to be the third baseman when he comes off the DL. He night need the occasional day off, but not enough to get WMB any significant ABs. He is making a statement with the bat such that they will want to find a spot for him. When Pujols came up, he played 3B, OF and 1B. I don't buy that it will impede his development. If Lars could be trusted in LF after 4 games at AAA, WMB can do it. Staying in the Sox lineup will accelerate his development as a hitter.[/quote']

 

I don't think it would have a significant impact on his development as a 3B. He is fine there defensively. You just don't forget how to play a position. I would be fine if he does play in LF, but I would prefer if he starts at 3B over Youk if he continues hitting the way he is. I think we are better off defensively with Middlebrooks at 3B over Youk. What makes everyone so certain that Youk will be the starting 3B after he returns? He has not done anything to deserve playing time over Middlebrooks, other than the fact that he has a bigger contract and he has been a good hitter in the past.

[ORS]

2B to SS is an interchangeable position. 3B to OF is a much' date=' much different situation.[/quote']

Please be consistent. For the last few days you've been calling for them putting a middle infielder in LF. If you are OK with Aviles in LF, you can't have much credible opposition to WMB back there.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Why would you sacrifice defense at TWO positions? WMB is better than Youk at 3B. Much better. I don't understand why you want to move WMB to LF and give up defense in LF and at 3B. If anything, I'd rather have WMB at SS, Youk at 3B, Aviles in LF. At least Middlebrooks has played some SS, he came up as a SS. Aviles isn't exactly the most rangey SS in the MLB.

[a700hitter]

I don't think it would have a significant impact on his development as a 3B. He is fine there defensively. You just don't forget how to play a position. I would be fine if he does play in LF' date=' but I would prefer if he starts at 3B over Youk if he continues hitting the way he is. I think we are better off defensively with Middlebrooks at 3B over Youk. What makes everyone so certain that Youk will be the starting 3B after he returns? He has not done anything to deserve playing time over Middlebrooks, other than the fact that he has a bigger contract and he has been a good hitter in the past.[/quote']Youk will be in the lineup when he is healthy. The team would be better off with Youk and Middlebrooks in the lineup. Middlebrooks looks like the real deal, but I am not so certain that he is superior offensively to a healthy Youk at this point. It would make no sense to keep an offensive weapon like Youk on the bench.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Please be consistent. For the last few days you've been calling for them putting a middle infielder in LF. If you are OK with Aviles in LF' date=' you can't have much credible opposition to WMB back there.[/quote']

 

Um. Aviles played outfield the entire winter to prep for RF. There is a huge difference between putting Aviles in LF and putting WMB, who likely hasn't played a game in the OF since high school, if then.

 

How is that even close to being inconsistent???

[redsoxfan3]

Youk will be in the lineup when he is healthy. The team would be better off with Youk and Middlebrooks in the lineup. Middlebrooks looks like the real deal' date=' but I am not so certain that he is superior offensively to a healthy Youk at this point. It would make no sense to keep an offensive weapon like Youk on the bench.[/quote']

 

I am not disagreeing with you at all. You are making valid points. But do you take a step back defensively at 3B and LF by playing Youk and Middlebrooks to have more production offensively? Or do you play a natural OF in LF and play Middlebrooks at 3B so the defense is better? Either way there is no guarantee that either of those options will be what I said they will. With Middlebrooks at 3B, you have a better option defensively. You are right, there is no proof that Middlebrooks is better than a healthy Youk offensively. It would be hard to keep Youk on the bench because of his bat. Either way it is a hard decision from a managerial perspective. They have a few options to work with. There is always the question of what happens if Middlebrooks gets moved to the OF when both CC and Ells return.

[ORS]

Um. Aviles played outfield the entire winter to prep for RF. There is a huge difference between putting Aviles in LF and putting WMB, who likely hasn't played a game in the OF since high school, if then.

 

How is that even close to being inconsistent???

It's inconsistent because neither of them have played a game in the OF recently. Your objection is based on where they have played games. Neither have done it at the position in question.

 

Ultimately, they are still professional baseball players, who have probably played every position on the diamond (with the exception of maybe catcher) at some point in their lifetime playing baseball. They both have the athleticism to be credible in the OF. However, since their recent experience there in actual games is light, they'll both have a learning curve out there. When Youkilis gets back, your suggestion is to have WMB playing in meaningless minor league games, when the alternative is that you have him up with the big club contributing in the lineup in lieu of either Marlon Byrd or Darnell McDonald. While I agree that WMB's ultimate position should be 3B, I don't think a half a season in the OF will ruin that. I also don't think his defense in LF will be significantly worse than Aviles, but his contribution at the plate will be miles better than Byrd/McDonald, or Iglesias if they move Aviles to LF.

 

These are the options under consideration right now.....

 

Aviles at SS

Youk at 3B

WMP in LF

 

vs.

 

Aviles at SS

Youk at 3B

Byrd/McDonald in LF

 

or

 

Iglesias at SS

Youk at 3B

Aviles in LF

 

I take the first option, hands down.

[SoxFanForsyth]

It's inconsistent because neither of them have played a game in the OF recently. Your objection is based on where they have played games. Neither have done it at the position in question.

 

Ultimately, they are still professional baseball players, who have probably played every position on the diamond (with the exception of maybe catcher) at some point in their lifetime playing baseball. They both have the athleticism to be credible in the OF. However, since their recent experience there in actual games is light, they'll both have a learning curve out there. When Youkilis gets back, your suggestion is to have WMB playing in meaningless minor league games, when the alternative is that you have him up with the big club contributing in the lineup in lieu of either Marlon Byrd or Darnell McDonald. While I agree that WMB's ultimate position should be 3B, I don't think a half a season in the OF will ruin that. I also don't think his defense in LF will be significantly worse than Aviles, but his contribution at the plate will be miles better than Byrd/McDonald, or Iglesias if they move Aviles to LF.

 

These are the options under consideration right now.....

 

Aviles at SS

Youk at 3B

WMP in LF

 

vs.

 

Aviles at SS

Youk at 3B

Byrd/McDonald in LF

 

or

 

Iglesias at SS

Youk at 3B

Aviles in LF

 

I take the first option, hands down.

 

So you're comfortable with putting WMB in LF, a place he's never played before, but you won't be open to putting him at SS, the position be played when drafted?

 

And Aviles played a season of winter ball this offseason in the outfield.

[SoxFanForsyth]

And I said this in a different thread.

 

You're wanting to put the same guy who stopped running during a big, extra innings at bat because he thought a fly ball was clearly foul, you want to put that guy in LF to battle that same wind, the monster, in a position that he's never played before?

 

You watch Ross, a guy who is a good OF, get fooled a lot.

You watch Crawford, an elite defender, get fooled a lot.

 

How did Youkilis fare out there when he was healthy and moving well??

[a700hitter]

Why would you sacrifice defense at TWO positions? WMB is better than Youk at 3B. Much better. I don't understand why you want to move WMB to LF and give up defense in LF and at 3B. If anything' date=' I'd rather have WMB at SS, Youk at 3B, Aviles in LF. At least Middlebrooks has played some SS, he came up as a SS. Aviles isn't exactly the most rangey SS in the MLB.[/quote']Aviles range factor is well above league average according to Gammons on Sunday.

[a700hitter]

Youkilis on the bench is not an option. It ain't gonna happen. He has an OPS in the 900's when healthy. You don't sit that on the bench.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Aviles range factor is well above league average according to Gammons on Sunday.

 

Fangraphs has his RngR at 0.6 which is virtually right at league average.

[a700hitter]

Fangraphs has his RngR at 0.6 which is virtually right at league average.

I'm just going by what Gammons said. I didn't look it up. I can live with league average on his range. I wish we had a league average pitching staff.

[a700hitter]

Fangraphs has his RngR at 0.6 which is virtually right at league average.

Is that for this year?

[Laser Show]

Fangraphs has his RngR at 0.6 which is virtually right at league average.

 

B-R has his dWAR at 0.9 for the year, 3rd in the MLB among all players.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Is that for this year?

 

Yeah that's specifically range oriented. I'm not arguing that Aviles has been bad because he hasnt. So don't misunderstand that. I'm just saying he at least has OF experience and WMB has SS experience.

[ORS]

And I said this in a different thread.

 

You're wanting to put the same guy who stopped running during a big, extra innings at bat because he thought a fly ball was clearly foul, you want to put that guy in LF to battle that same wind, the monster, in a position that he's never played before?

 

You watch Ross, a guy who is a good OF, get fooled a lot.

You watch Crawford, an elite defender, get fooled a lot.

 

How did Youkilis fare out there when he was healthy and moving well??

Drop the anectodes. I've acknowledged there will be some hiccups, and that I prefer to endure them while keeping his bat in the lineup. To answer your inane questions, that I've already answered, yes, I want that guy over watching Iglesias/Byrd/McDonald hit.

 

You've brought a lot of attention to the potetial for WMB to have some follies in the OF, but you've completely ignored the negatives to your suggestion, namely how completely awful that trio will be with a bat in their hands. In a perfect world, no, I'd prefer to not have WMB in LF. Given the other options, I'll take his bat in the lineup and the circus moments in LF that will certainly come. And it's mainly because of two things. One, I appreciate the value of the defensive spectrum as a guide in determining the importance of defense at positions around the diamond, and LF is the least important. Two, while I acknowledge the potential for some misplays, I think you are massively overstating how bad he could be out there given his athletic ability.

[a700hitter]

Yeah that's specifically range oriented. I'm not arguing that Aviles has been bad because he hasnt. So don't misunderstand that. I'm just saying he at least has OF experience and WMB has SS experience.

I never believe in compromising 2 positions defensively by playing guys out of position when I only would have to play 1 guy out of position to get the lineup that I want.

[ORS]

Yeah that's specifically range oriented. I'm not arguing that Aviles has been bad because he hasnt. So don't misunderstand that. I'm just saying he at least has OF experience and WMB has SS experience.

So, your preference, given a guy who plays neither position regularly who you have concerns about defensively, is to put him at the most difficult defensive position? Seriously?

[ORS]

I never believe in compromising 2 positions defensively by playing guys out of position when I only would have to play 1 guy out of position to get the lineup that I want.

But, he misread a fly ball off his bat!! Let's put him in the middle of the IF and put our competent middle IF in the OF!

[SoxSport]

Iggy is tearing up AAA right now. Hitting close to .300. He wasn't a bad hitter when I saw him in spring training.

 

I honestly think the Sox would have a better record right now if Middlebrooks, Iggy and Lav had been in the lineup from the start. Plenty of room in the OF for Aviles. The FO is too slow too change--they wait for injuries.

[SoxFanForsyth]

So' date=' your preference, given a guy who plays neither position regularly who you have concerns about defensively, is to put him at the most difficult defensive position? Seriously?[/quote']

 

I'm pretty sure WMB was drafted as a SS. And he's never played a game in LF since HS. At least he's staying with what he's familiar with.

 

As far as your "WMB will be be ok because he's athletic" that makes zero sense.

 

McDonald is apparently a trainwreck in LF. He could have played RB in college. Crawford played terribly defensively last year. He had football and basketball scholarship offers.

 

Just because you're athletic does not at all translate to success in LF at Fenway.

 

Again. This guy didn't run out a ball hit down the LF line because he thought it was clearly foul. And now you want to have him out there everyday manning a position that elite defenders look foolish defending.

[SoxSport]

Yeah that's specifically range oriented. I'm not arguing that Aviles has been bad because he hasnt. So don't misunderstand that. I'm just saying he at least has OF experience and WMB has SS experience.

 

Some guys are rationalizing about Aviles. Why play hamburger at SS when you have steak at AAA?

[SoxFanForsyth]

But' date=' he misread a fly ball off his bat!! Let's put him in the middle of the IF and put our competent middle IF in the OF! [/quote']

 

This is ridiculous.

 

You're being a child. Every point I make, you can't dispute. Middlebrooks played SS in high school and was drafted as a SS out of HS.

 

Aviles played a season of winter ball in the offseason.

 

But no, instead, he's an incompetent middle infielder. :blink:

 

And our SS who trained all offseason to play OF is an incompetent OF :blink:

 

That's smart. Oh wait...