How to Fix This Team?

[jung]

Lavarnway had 7 PB is 62 games caught in 2011. He has had 1 PB in 40 games so far in 2012.

 

Salty has had 2 PB and pitchers have been charged with 9 WP in the 16 games that he has caught so far in 2012. They may keep the WP records for pitchers/catchers in the minors but I have not found them as yet.

 

Then there is the avalanche of dropped pop flies, poor throws, mental errors and various and sundry other defensive errors that Salty makes including a distinct inability to get up out of that crouch and move out from behind the plate on any plays right in front of home and his ineffectiveness just calling the game and providing a good target for pitchers. Add to that the fact the Salty is not hitting and I would take the risk on Lavs. He may be as bad as Salty. However we already know that Salty is terrible and Lavs has not caught so badly in Pawtucket this year that there is no chance of his being better than Salty. If he is just as bad defensively there is every chance that Lavs will hit better than Salty is hitting. No matter how you cut it, Salty is so terrible at this point that it is worthwhile to take the risk that Lavs will be better.

 

Frankly Salty is catching so poorly and hitting so poorly that even with Shoppach's obvious problems hitting it would at this point be worthwhile catching Shoppach more just to inject some calm into the situation for the pitchers. At this point the pitchers must not have any confidence at all in what Salty is doing back there. In fact I think there is ample evidence that the O's may be the first team this year to have purposefully been trying to take advantage of Salty's deficiencies. I think we are likely to see more of that as it gets around the league that Salty is just plain terrible.

[mvp 78]

Wrong post.

[Elktonnick]

As a number oif us said months ago, the problem is the FO didn't get rid of its problem children. Beckett's toxic influence has permeated this clubhouse IMO. The three starters have all morphed into John Lackey clones. Their constant whinning on the mound drives me crazy. Yes Salty sucks. And A-Gon is playing with the all the drive and elan of JD Drew. Why didn't Beckett or Lester or Bard step forward to pitch last night. They didn't because they have no sense of team pride. That's the problem with this team. That what needs to be fixed.

[Whatsinaname]

Ugghh.. The thought of Dice-K and Lackey being the things we are waiting for to save this mess is making me sick.

 

Yep

 

Well, buddy, I mean I love ya and all, but you may want to start giving a s*** about the loss. Because you've lost 16 in the past 27 games. You keep playing like this and your on pace for a 66-96 record.

 

So maybe start giving a s*** about every game. And if you don't maybe you should go watch the NESN commercial again. Remember? Every pitch matters. Every strike matters. Every at bat matters. Every game matters.

 

More s*** couldn't spew out of a horses ass.

 

Yep again!

 

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. :wetodd:

 

Whoever walked under the friggen ladder, unwalk it! This s*** ain't funny!

[a700hitter]

Fixing this team is a tall order, but it needs fixing. It will not fix itself. As Peter Gammons said at the close of yesterday's broadcast, if they wait for the injured guys to come back, it could be too late. With this current crew, they are likely to be 15 games out of first by July. What do we have currently? We have an offense with only 3 premier hitters (Pedroia, Agon and Ortiz). Spare me the arguments for Aviles, Sweeney, Ross, or Middlebrooks. One is a rookie and the other three are journeyman type players. When you have 3 established offensive players, you will have tremendous inconsistency scoring runs. There will be games where we bludgeon the opponents and others where we look helpless against mediocre pitching. Our rotation can't go deep into games. Beckett and Lester cannot consistently give us quality starts. Our rotation does not have a "big three". Buchholz is a train wreck. If they don't option him to Pawtucket to work out his problems, he will continue to embarrass himself and cost the Sox games. Bard and Doubront are proving that they are unproven. Their performances have ranged from average to awful. The state of the rotation causes greater reliance on the bull pen exposing its deficiencies. Hopefully, Aceves is establishing himself as the end of game hammer, but there is little other talent in that pen and they are already being over-used. How do you fix the team? There is so much wrong. Where do you even start. It was poorly constructed from the start and very thinly stocked. It didn't have the depth to survive Injury.

[Dojji]

As a number oif us said months ago' date=' the problem is the FO didn't get rid of its problem children. Beckett's toxic influence has permeated this clubhouse IMO. The three starters have all morphed into John Lackey clones. Their constant whinning on the mound drives me crazy. Yes Salty sucks. And A-Gon is playing with the all the drive and elan of JD Drew. Why didn't Beckett or Lester or Bard step forward to pitch last night. They didn't because they have no sense of team pride. That's the problem with this team. That what needs to be fixed.[/quote']

 

Getting rid of the problem children is too tall an order right now when the roster is about 40% problem children. I won't take the FO to task for not doing that in one offseason when most of the real problems are unmovable.

[Dojji]

Lavarnway had 7 PB is 62 games caught in 2011. He has had 1 PB in 40 games so far in 2012.

 

There's that thing where people make the bizarre mistake of assuming that minor league numbers matter. Why does that keep happening?

 

His last trip through the minors Salty had 4 PBin 61games which puts him on pace for a very reasonable 12-or-so for a full year. That didn't stop him from leading the freaking league in them last year. Pitches are harder to predict in the big leagues for hitters, why are we surprised that they would be for catchers as well?

[Elktonnick]

Getting rid of the problem children is too tall an order right now when the roster is about 40% problem children. I won't take the FO to task for not doing that in one offseason when most of the real problems are unmovable.

 

Horse hockey! The main problem child is Beckett. He should have been made an example of. Lester and Buchholtz may have fallen in line. They could have dumped Youk but chose not to. This FO also should have brougtht in an outsider as GM instead of the fool Cherrington.

[ellsburyforMVP]

As of right now, I'm letting the BP off the hook.....not counting McDonald's " outing " the BP has given up 6 runs in the last 53 2/3 innings for an era of 1.01......yeah, I was surprised by that number too

[Dojji]

I really don't believe that. Beckett is the scapegoat, not the problem, and most of the time he backs it up on the field, which is better than most of these guys can say.

[jacksonianmarch]

Cherington isnt the problem. This team is run by Lucchino and he effectively is the GM with Cherington as the buffer. The problems start there and permeate through. They had the opportunity to move Beckett in the off-season if he is truly the root of the problem since he was coming off a dominant season and is signed rather cheaply for ace pay. They didnt have much room with Youkilis since he was injured most of the yr, put up a horrible season and finished the yr on the OR table.

 

In the end, the sox dont have much money coming off the books next yr. The only big contract that will come off is Ortiz, and the way he is hitting, you might not want his bat to go elsewhere. The sox need what every team needs right now, and that is starting pitching and bullpen. Thing is, with the extra wild card, sellers will be fewer and further between and the prices will be higher.

 

Also, Buchholz needs to be demoted. I said it last week and you guys thought I was crazy. He made his hay with a 94mph fastball on average. His location has never been pinpoint, but with his movement he was able to generate weak hacks and keep the ball on the ground. Well, teams are teeing off on hin, which has caused him to nibble and walk guys. Now, he is all messed up. They need to DL him, call it shoulder weakness, have him throw in rehab games and then promote him when his heat is back. Otherwise, he is a waste

[jacksonianmarch]

BTW, this line looks AWESOME right, I mean anyone with this line would be paid at ARod level money

 

.343/.428/.613 for an OPS of 1.041....

 

That is what the average hitter is doing off Buchholz. Time to DL him

[redsoxbeatz]

Buch should have been on the DL 2 starts ago.

 

It's tough to be a baseball team w/no pitchers.

[Laser Show]

BTW, this line looks AWESOME right, I mean anyone with this line would be paid at ARod level money

 

.343/.428/.613 for an OPS of 1.041....

 

That is what the average hitter is doing off Buchholz. Time to DL him

 

Buch should have been on the DL 2 starts ago.

 

It's tough to be a baseball team w/no pitchers.

 

Agreed with both. Buchholz is a huge liability right now. He needs time in Pawtucket to figure it out.

[Station 13]

Send him down. Get his s*** straight. Tell him he need to change his snail pace pitching, maybe it's the root of agony. For us viewers we see a deer caught in an 18 wheeler headlight. He has his moments in 2010. Outside of 2010 he's done absolutely nada. Being 28 year old and only once pitch above 100 inning at this level is a total bust.

[SoxFanForsyth]

BTW, this line looks AWESOME right, I mean anyone with this line would be paid at ARod level money

 

.343/.428/.613 for an OPS of 1.041....

 

That is what the average hitter is doing off Buchholz. Time to DL him

 

MVP numbers against Buchholz. I don't care what he says. He's not healthy. His fastballs haven't changed planes since June, 2011. They are flatter than flat, and he has zero confidence in his change.

 

Even if he's not hurt, he needs to be DL'ed so he can rehab in Pawtucket.

[jacksonianmarch]

He lacks the fire he had prior to his injury. I am wondering if that fracture made him a little gunshy. It might be in the back of his head that if he goes all out that he could break his back again. He's gonna need some cream puff time to get his confidence back

[SoxFanForsyth]

He lacks the fire he had prior to his injury. I am wondering if that fracture made him a little gunshy. It might be in the back of his head that if he goes all out that he could break his back again. He's gonna need some cream puff time to get his confidence back

 

Agree with this, but I disagree with your assessment that the Sox won't have much money coming off the books this year (from a prior post).

 

All numbers in AAV.

 

Ortiz (14.75mm) (Replaced by Lavarnway)

Youk (10.3mm) (Replaced by WMB)

Dice (10.33mm) (No Replacement Necessary - Lackey will be back)

Jenks (6mm) (No Replacement Necessary, Obvious Reasons)

Ross (3mm) (Replaced by Kalish)

 

That's right at $45mm right there coming off the books just from those 5 players alone. Take out about 12mm in arb, and that leaves the Sox with around $33mm in money to play with.

 

They can easily go get a guy like Cole Hamels and pay him $20-$22mm over 6-7 years, and then you've got a rotation of Hamels - Lester - Beckett - Buchholz - Bard. Throw Doubront into the bullpen as your 6th man. That's a quality rotation, and it slides Lester and Beckett into their appropriate slots.

[Bellhorn04]

Cherington isnt the problem. This team is run by Lucchino and he effectively is the GM with Cherington as the buffer. The problems start there and permeate through. They had the opportunity to move Beckett in the off-season if he is truly the root of the problem since he was coming off a dominant season and is signed rather cheaply for ace pay. They didnt have much room with Youkilis since he was injured most of the yr, put up a horrible season and finished the yr on the OR table.

 

In the end, the sox dont have much money coming off the books next yr. The only big contract that will come off is Ortiz, and the way he is hitting, you might not want his bat to go elsewhere. The sox need what every team needs right now, and that is starting pitching and bullpen. Thing is, with the extra wild card, sellers will be fewer and further between and the prices will be higher.

 

Youkilis, Matsuzaka and Junks-that's a total of 25 million AAV coming off the books. If you add Ortiz it's 40 million.

[ellsburyforMVP]

Let me get this right......Ortiz is off to the best start of his career and you guys don't want to bring him back for another season? Unless papi completely tanks after the all-star break, I see him getting another yr with maybe a team option for a 2nd

[Bellhorn04]

Let me get this right......Ortiz is off to the best start of his career and you guys don't want to bring him back for another season? Unless papi completely tanks after the all-star break' date=' I see him getting another yr with maybe a team option for a 2nd[/quote']

 

I didn't say I didn't want him back. I agree he is having a great year so far.

[Laser Show]

Let me get this right......Ortiz is off to the best start of his career and you guys don't want to bring him back for another season? Unless papi completely tanks after the all-star break' date=' I see him getting another yr with maybe a team option for a 2nd[/quote']

 

He'll be 37 next year. If he finishes the year with an OPS over ~.925 I'd bring him back on a 1 year deal. I can't justify a multiyear deal for a fulltime DH that will be 38, but I'm not the GM. But, only if it doesn't impede Lavarnway's development.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Let me get this right......Ortiz is off to the best start of his career and you guys don't want to bring him back for another season? Unless papi completely tanks after the all-star break' date=' I see him getting another yr with maybe a team option for a 2nd[/quote']

 

Well, they may bring him back, but this team has much more glaring needs than a full time DH for $15mm.

 

I'd much rather apply that $15mm toward a guy like Cole Hamels or Matt Garza and roll the dice with a guy like Lavarnway at DH than to have Ortiz and then roll the dice with the rotation.

 

The offense (when healthy) is in a much, much better position than the rotation. Hell, the offense even without Crawford, Youkilis, and Ellsbury is in a better position than the rotation when healthy!

[kapsis21]

Well, they may bring him back, but this team has much more glaring needs than a full time DH for $15mm.

 

I'd much rather apply that $15mm toward a guy like Cole Hamels or Matt Garza and roll the dice with a guy like Lavarnway at DH than to have Ortiz and then roll the dice with the rotation.

 

The offense (when healthy) is in a much, much better position than the rotation. Hell, the offense even without Crawford, Youkilis, and Ellsbury is in a better position than the rotation when healthy!

i just dont like seeing Ortiz wearing a Yankee jersey.. i just dont. if he continues to hit .350 or even .280 by end of the season, it would be stupid to let him walk..

[ellsburyforMVP]

I really don't think age is as big a factor as it sometimes can be in ortiz's case..... For one, he looks to be in the best shape of his life , 2nd being a dh is not the most demanding position to play lol...and who cares about his age or the fact that he's a full-time dh, if he can hit .320-30-100 ?? Funny thing if he was 27 no one would have a problem with paying him.....keep in mind we're not talking about a long term contract with Ortiz, he knows that ship has sailed.... But if he continues to hit, would be a huge mistake to not keep him...

 

And remember, Ortiz has been one of the best 2nd half hitters in MLB the last few yrs.... I don't see how he can get better than what he's doing now, but who knows

[SoxFanForsyth]

i just dont like seeing Ortiz wearing a Yankee jersey.. i just dont. if he continues to hit .350 or even .280 by end of the season' date=' it would be stupid to let him walk..[/quote']

 

Zero chance that he goes to the Yankees. They are having to DH Jeter and ARod because they are old and need days off to keep their legs attached. No chance he goes to NY. If they can bring him back at 8mm or 9mm fine. But not for 15mm

[ibot2much]

Zero chance that he goes to the Yankees. They are having to DH Jeter and ARod because they are old and need days off to keep their legs attached. No chance he goes to NY. If they can bring him back at 8mm or 9mm fine. But not for 15mm

 

Ahh..logic. Thanks. The emtional cry of " DO is going to sign with the Yanks" always makes me laugh....They have enough of their own old men with ridiculous contracts ( aRod)

[TutGadol]

I don't care what you do don't trade prospects, this season is over for me, too many injuries and not enough talent. The only thing I would do is trade for a catcher who can at least play catch.

 

And try to work out whatever is wrong with Buch, He used to be great, even if it takes time.

[ORS]

They can easily go get a guy like Cole Hamels and pay him $20-$22mm over 6-7 years' date=' and then you've got a rotation of Hamels - Lester - Beckett - Buchholz - Bard. Throw Doubront into the bullpen as your 6th man. That's a quality rotation, and it slides Lester and Beckett into their appropriate slots.[/quote']

This is wishful thinking, IMO.

 

Here's the most likely rotation for next year. Lester, Beckett, Lackey (who is effective post-TJ), Doubront, Bard. I fear the best days of Buchholz career are behind him. He looks defeated. However, they have those 6 options on the table right now. I think Doubront and Bard hit their bumps in the road this year, and they stick with them moving forward because they will eventually be both capable and cheap. I seriously doubt they go big/long on a FA pitcher with the current bad contracts they are trying to get some value out of (Lackey, Crawford, and....at this point.....Gonzalez).

[kapsis21]

Zero chance that he goes to the Yankees. They are having to DH Jeter and ARod because they are old and need days off to keep their legs attached. No chance he goes to NY. If they can bring him back at 8mm or 9mm fine. But not for 15mm

 

oh yep. didnt think about that. just cannot fathom to think Papi in yankee uniform.

but i agree if he signs a 2 year 18 mill deal that would make life a lot easy with some contracts that are coming to an end as you suggested.