How to Fix This Team?

[jacksonianmarch]

I also don't think Hamels is an ace. He'd be 2C in our rotation.

 

Hamels career- 1193.2IP 1063H 448ER 1127K 297BB 3.38ERA 1.14WHIP 8.5K/9IP 3.8K/BB. Yeah, he'd be 2C in your rotation, lol. His last 2+ seasons have been elite and his career numbers have been awesome. He'd be your ace immediately

[mvp 78]

Hamels career- 1193.2IP 1063H 448ER 1127K 297BB 3.38ERA 1.14WHIP 8.5K/9IP 3.8K/BB. Yeah' date=' he'd be 2C in your rotation, lol. His last 2+ seasons have been elite and his career numbers have been awesome. He'd be your ace immediately[/quote']

 

Adjust for AL East. Put Lester in Philly and he'd throw that. Look at how Paps' numbers have shot through the roof. It's my opinion. He's never been the ace of his staff. Sorry. LOL

[FredLynn]

Adjust for AL East. Put Lester in Philly and he'd throw that. Look at how Paps' numbers have shot through the roof. It's my opinion. He's never been the ace of his staff. Sorry. LOL

 

That is exactly correct. Tim Lincecum has a career ERA of 3.06 and a WHIP of 1.198 (Hamels is 3.38/1.139). Even if you adjust for the ALE he would be likely be better than anything we have now. Hamels would probably be another Lester. One serviceable #3 SP is plenty for me.

[ellsburyforMVP]

Other than Ells' date=' who is injured that would give me hope of helping this team when they come back? Youk and Crawford are maybes at best for contrubuting. Lackey and Dice K would probably make us worse if they came back. I do not think Dubront or Bard deserve to loose their spots to those clowns[/quote']

 

You can't be serious?? Runner-up MVP last yr- ellsbury... A guy who's been in the MVP "discussion" a few times but had an off yr last yr-Crawford ... Nevermind the speed upgrade you get, how about the 50x better OF defense over macdonald and ross? And these 2 offensively are 100x better than Mac/Ross...

 

Youk-when healthy, idc what you say, is a very viable 3B

Jenks,Bailey - much needed bullpen help

Lackey-I'll give you that one

Dice-k??? Could still be a very good #4 #3 starter... Had back to back 1-hit outings a couple starts before he got DL'd.... Nevermind the fact that a healthy good dice-k would of prob kept bard in the bullpen which ( if all healthy ) would of been - jenks,hill,aceves ( in the role he should be-like last yr) bard,Bailey ... And 1 or 2 others.... Major upgrade over what we have now

 

So yeah, being healthy would help this team ALOT

[Spitball]

When I saw Nick Punto in the lead off spot today, I thought Valentine might have lost his mind. The guy has a .294 OBP. Line up oders might be over-rated but there is validity to playing percentages and looking at player's roles and abilities.

 

I think I'd put Bill James in a uniform and let him advise Valentine.

[jacksonianmarch]

Adjust for AL East. Put Lester in Philly and he'd throw that. Look at how Paps' numbers have shot through the roof. It's my opinion. He's never been the ace of his staff. Sorry. LOL

 

No, he wouldnt. Lester's career numbers are much worse and his last 2+ seasons are WAY worse than Hamels'. Hamels' K numbers are better, his BB numbers are better and his WHIP is around 1.1 in that time. The guy has been the balls. Adjust for the AL East and the guy would still dominate.

[jacksonianmarch]

Adjust for AL East. Put Lester in Philly and he'd throw that. Look at how Paps' numbers have shot through the roof. It's my opinion. He's never been the ace of his staff. Sorry. LOL

 

Nope, he was never the ace of a staff, nope. OR, he was the ace of the staff of the team that won the f***ing world series in 2008. Jesus Christ

[SoxSport]

The house hasn't been cleaned enough. Things have gone stale from the owner down. I don't trust hedgefunders, anyways. Time for Henry to sell the team.

[example1]

I would prefer Lincecum to Hamels; and I don't think Buchholtz has much talent. He had ONE full season for us that was good. The rest of the time' date=' its the deer in the headlights look.[/quote']

 

I'm not shocked you don't think Buchholtz has much talent. You consistently misspell his name. That tells me you haven't put too much thought into him one way or the other.

 

As for fans "being led to believe" that the team is good or not, some fans make their own opinions and independently come to the conclusion that the team isn't as bad as you say. It doesn't mean they are lemmings.

 

You take great pleasure in thinking you are an independent voice, constantly right and never influenced by those who brainwash the rest of us. Must be nice to be so right and clear headed all the time. Can you help me make my voices stop?

[jacksonianmarch]

What non-hedge funder can afford a baseball team? I would bet every owner in baseball is invested in a hedge fund

[BornToRun]

I'm not shocked you don't think Buchholtz has much talent. You consistently misspell his name. That tells me you haven't put too much thought into him one way or the other.

 

As for fans "being led to believe" that the team is good or not, some fans make their own opinions and independently come to the conclusion that the team isn't as bad as you say. It doesn't mean they are lemmings.

 

You take great pleasure in thinking you are an independent voice, constantly right and never influenced by those who brainwash the rest of us. Must be nice to be so right and clear headed all the time. Can you help me make my voices stop?

You, sir, have just won the Internet.

 

Congratulations.

[SoxSport]

What non-hedge funder can afford a baseball team? I would bet every owner in baseball is invested in a hedge fund

 

 

Yeah. The only people making any money these days--at somebody else's expense.

[example1]

So you want to send an injured and punchless Youkilis and a guy in Buchholz who has sucked in his return from a spinal fracture for a lockdown lefty specialist and one of the best pitchers in the game? That +1 better be a plus 3.

 

Hamels has one year left until he will be a max-price FA. Buchholz has a team friendly deal and as much as you think he sucks, he's a valuable young pitcher who was an all-star in 2010 and who has a 3.31 ERA and 131 ERA+ in his last 285 IP. He's not a slouch. Chances are the Sox would not make that move, because Hamels would be gone after this season and the plus-1 would have to be someone really valuable.

[SoxSport]

When I saw Nick Punto in the lead off spot today, I thought Valentine might have lost his mind. The guy has a .294 OBP. Line up oders might be over-rated but there is validity to playing percentages and looking at player's roles and abilities.

 

I think I'd put Bill James in a uniform and let him advise Valentine.

 

V so far is a big disappointment. His field managing is no better than Tito's, and he's a loose cannon with the media--which Tito was not.

[example1]

Lincecum is a FA in 2013. Hamels is a FA this year. And I posted a different comment regarding this team after the initial post, which discussed everything you talked about in the game thread (spoiler alert, I agreed with you, just added some arguments to it as well).

 

Either way, this team needs an ace. Bad. If we can get Felix, I would be more than willing to part ways with anyone not mentioned in the post about calling people up (Iggy, Lavs, WMB). A package around Bogaerts + Barnes would be a good start, and if need be, I would throw Buchholz in there and try to get back a guy like Brandon League. I think a team like the Mariners would love to have a guy like Buchholz if he can prove healthy because he is signed to such a team friendly deal.

 

For the record, getting Felix would cost this team players in the list of being called up. Possibly Iggy, Lavs AND WMB, and it still might be worth it. I actually think the Sox could match up decently with Seattle if they really wanted to. Seattle would be hard pressed to turn down Bard + Middlebrooks + Boegarts + Ranaudo (Barnes when he's able to be traded) for Felix, IMO. That's a huge package.

 

That said, other than choosing to rebuild I don't see why they would move Felix at all.

[example1]

I like more Hamels' date=' but that is just me.[/quote']

 

Lincecum at his peak was one of the best pitchers in the league since Pedro. Hence the back-to-back Cy Young awards.

 

With him, I worry about his frame holding out. His velocity is down and his motion is violent. If he's able to either adjust his pitching or regain his form his ceiling is definitely higher.

 

With Hamels, he's a guy who was highly touted but who took his time developing into what he has become. He's the real deal and has the frame to make me less worried about his stuff longterm (compared to Lincecum).

 

If I had to drop 20m right now it would be on Hamels, but if I had to identify the pitcher who could potentially be traded for and suddenly start showing Pedro Martinez-esque (not actually Pedro, mind you) production, it could be Lincecum.

 

 

Multiple people have identified Lester's inability to truly step into that ace slot as the problem, and I think that's spot on. His stuff is good enough, but he just has an issue with command and consistency. He's got the stuff to be one of the best starters in the league, but he gets miffed by small issues on the mound and the best pitchers simply don't do that.

 

When Roy Halladay or Cliff Lee walk a dude it isn't the umps fault and they don't show it visually. It is their fault for not executing. They have such high standards that it is NEVER anyone else's fault. I love Lester and hope he finds his groove, but he's been really frustrating the past two seasons.

[jung]

Lester's post game presser the other day was pretty telling. He was talking himself about the issues he causes himself on the mound when he lets all these things just pile up on him. However if you saw him and listened to him he really did not look like a guy that had the answer. He just seemed more like a guy that recognized the problem and was somewhat resigned to it. He really was not trying to but he really looked and sounded like a guy that was raising the white flag.

[wyo-sox]

You can't be serious?? Runner-up MVP last yr- ellsbury... A guy who's been in the MVP "discussion" a few times but had an off yr last yr-Crawford ... Nevermind the speed upgrade you get, how about the 50x better OF defense over macdonald and ross? And these 2 offensively are 100x better than Mac/Ross...

 

Youk-when healthy, idc what you say, is a very viable 3B

Jenks,Bailey - much needed bullpen help

Lackey-I'll give you that one

Dice-k??? Could still be a very good #4 #3 starter... Had back to back 1-hit outings a couple starts before he got DL'd.... Nevermind the fact that a healthy good dice-k would of prob kept bard in the bullpen which ( if all healthy ) would of been - jenks,hill,aceves ( in the role he should be-like last yr) bard,Bailey ... And 1 or 2 others.... Major upgrade over what we have now

 

So yeah, being healthy would help this team ALOT

 

Well we agree on Ells.

My brain fart for not thinking of Bailey, we agree there.

We are close on Youk, but I lean towards iffy on him.

We are miles apart on Crawford, I do not see him returning to past form. He proved the pressure bothered him and it will be stronger if he returns this year. Plus he will be contending with injuries he is fresh off of.

Dice K would shock me if he could contribute better than our 4 and 5 starters are. The last three years he pitched his era was 5.76, 4.69, and 5.30 so I do not feel good about him.

Jenks, 2008 2.63, 2009 3.71, 2010 4.44, and 2011 6.32. Not trending in a direction that gives me hope. Plus he seems like a head case.

[jacksonianmarch]

For the record, getting Felix would cost this team players in the list of being called up. Possibly Iggy, Lavs AND WMB, and it still might be worth it. I actually think the Sox could match up decently with Seattle if they really wanted to. Seattle would be hard pressed to turn down Bard + Middlebrooks + Boegarts + Ranaudo (Barnes when he's able to be traded) for Felix, IMO. That's a huge package.

 

That said, other than choosing to rebuild I don't see why they would move Felix at all.

 

The Yankees offered Montero, Banuelos and Betances for Felix. They said no. You arent getting Felix, nobody is

[Station 13]

Seattle turn down Masterson, Bard, Buchholz and Kalish 4 years ago.

[Palodios]

a700 has brought up a very good point all season long. With the extra wildcard spot, there are more teams that are going to be trying to get that extra piece at the trade deadline. The cost for quality players is going to be at an extreme premium.

 

Personally, I'm starting to believe that there is a deep problem within the chemistry of this team. There are a lot of problems, and one or two more overpaid pitchers aren't going to solve them.

 

Trade Beckett and his fried chicken. Trade Youkilis, and his broken body. Trade Salty and his 6.00+ cERA. Even trade Dice-k, who may suddenly have value if he'll waive. Get whatever value you can for any single member of the bullpen besides Aceves. Fire Valentine. Load up on talented players that are a year or two from the majors, and make a run.

[jacksonianmarch]

Seattle turn down Masterson' date=' Bard, Buchholz and Kalish 4 years ago.[/quote']

 

I bet they are kicking themselves about that now.

[SouthieFanatic]

I'm a huge believer in Bogaerts, but if there was ever a chance to get Felix for Bogaerts and others (Assuming Middlebrooks and Iggy) then go for it. You'd just have to hope Youk turns it around if Middlebrooks isn't around, but if theres one pitcher in baseball who has a chance at hitting 300 wins it's him, and it'd be cool to see him in a sox uniform instead of the..Mariners blah

[Palodios]

Hamels career- 1193.2IP 1063H 448ER 1127K 297BB 3.38ERA 1.14WHIP 8.5K/9IP 3.8K/BB. Yeah' date=' he'd be 2C in your rotation, lol. His last 2+ seasons have been elite and his career numbers have been awesome. He'd be your ace immediately[/quote']

 

Jon Lester's career ERA+ is 126

Cole Hamel's career ERA+ is 126

[jung]

It is rare for guys at Youk's age to turn it around. I think he might be on the down side and sliding fast.

[ellsburyforMVP]

Well we agree on Ells.

My brain fart for not thinking of Bailey, we agree there.

We are close on Youk, but I lean towards iffy on him.

We are miles apart on Crawford, I do not see him returning to past form. He proved the pressure bothered him and it will be stronger if he returns this year. Plus he will be contending with injuries he is fresh off of.

Dice K would shock me if he could contribute better than our 4 and 5 starters are. The last three years he pitched his era was 5.76, 4.69, and 5.30 so I do not feel good about him.

Jenks, 2008 2.63, 2009 3.71, 2010 4.44, and 2011 6.32. Not trending in a direction that gives me hope. Plus he seems like a head case.

 

Point is, a healthy jenks would be an upgrade to an extent over some of the guys in the BP , and if dice-k never went down, either dubront or bard are in the pen... 2 upgraded arms with aceves in his more comfortable role...

 

And with Crawford, you pretty much have to give him the benefit of the doubt... Great career in TB, stinks it up here for a season, he comes back and is horrible this yr- then I'm with ya.... But even last yr Crawford is a major upgrade over McDonald

[jacksonianmarch]

Hamels' FIP the last 2 yrs has been WAYYYYYY better than Lester's. Not even close

[jacksonianmarch]

I'm a huge believer in Bogaerts' date=' but if there was ever a chance to get Felix for Bogaerts and others (Assuming Middlebrooks and Iggy) then go for it. You'd just have to hope Youk turns it around if Middlebrooks isn't around, but if theres one pitcher in baseball who has a chance at hitting 300 wins it's him, and it'd be cool to see him in a sox uniform instead of the..Mariners blah[/quote']

 

King Felix wont win 300 because he has been robbed of so many wins to this point. CC is your best bet to win 300. He needs 120 more

[RedSoxRally]

This isn't 2011 where Boston's slow start didn't take them completely out of the chase for a playoff spot. This is 2012 and Boston is now 11-15 and 7.5 games out of 1st place. Tampa Bay and Baltimore are jostling for the top spot, Toronto is putting on a good show for the time being and the Yankees are now without Mariano Rivera but will still give themselves a chance to contend. I don't know if Toronto has the staying power to contend for the postseason, but I think Baltimore will stick around longer than most think. Tampa Bay is the team to beat in the AL East. They are possibly the most resourcful team in the majors while having will and resiliency to bounce back from tough situations with injuries and all.

 

This 2012 Red Sox team can't seem to get out of their own way. Between Bobby V's constant psycho-babble BS who has no problem making out 150 different lineups, struggling starting pitching, a bullpen who pisses their pants on their way in to relieve the previous pitcher, deflating body language, here again/gone the next offense and overall inconsistent play are sending the Red Sox's chances of contending into no man's land. The AL East is easily one the best if not the best divisions in the MLB. Add Baltimore in the mix with Tampa Bay and New York and making a push for the postseason just got that much more difficult. Playing their way back to a .500 record with such a shallow reserve list had to have taken quite a bit out of Boston. How many more times can Boston go on a 4 or 5 game losing streak before the opportunity is too far gone?

[jacksonianmarch]

The Yankees and Rays will still be at the top of the division at the end of the yr. The question is whether the sox will join them.