How to Fix This Team?

[SoxFanForsyth]

So this team is clearly talented and should be winning these games, but they aren't. What's going wrong with this team, and what would you do to fix it? Roster moves? Would you trade some of the highly touted prospects like Bogaerts and Swihart for a true ace like Felix, if available? Would you let it play out and just go with what you've got until the injuries subside, or do you think there isn't enough talent to win this year? And if there isn't, would you mail in the season and try to go ahead and absorb some of the growing pains that guys like Lavarnway, Iglesias, and Middlebrooks are going to face?

[Brennan]

Bring up the kids as much as possible and get rid of the overpaid clowns that don't seem to care about playing baseball anymore or take the Drew approach to going on the DL every time they get a bug bite.

 

Some of us figured it would take a few years to claw back up to the top anyway so why don't we get some enjoyment out of it while watching kids play that actually have some drive.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think it's the time to be trading prospects, it's the time for developing them.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Ya know, I've heard far too much of the "we started last season like this too and had the best record in baseball in August"

 

That's fine for the first 8 or 10 games, but this isn't the same team as last year. First off, starting out 11-15 should not be a blueprint to success. That's just not how it works. And second off, and more importantly, the Red Sox were down 5 games at 11-15 last year. This year, if the Rays beat the powerful A's tonight, this team will be 8 games back.

 

Let me put something into perspective. The biggest lead the Sox ever had in 2011 was a 3 game lead in the East. So if we are assume that this team can return to 2011 form and play good baseball again, then we also have to assume that the other teams will as well. So that happens, we will never claim an independent 1st place in the East because the Rays have started out extremely hot. And the Rays are a much, much better team this year than they were last year.

 

I say we need to call up Iglesias and Lavarnway. Get rid of DMac and Shoppach. Salty is a better back up catcher than Shoppach. See if we can inject some energy into this team while improving the defense.

 

If someone can convince me that we are losing offense by using Lavarnway over Salty and ultimately Iglesias over Byrd (Aviles goes to LF, Ross or Sweeney to CF), then please do, but I think this team would have just as much of a chance to win with Lavarnway and Iglesias and Aviles in LF, Middlebrooks at 3B as they do right now. And you're getting the added bonus of using your farm and getting them experience because those kids are going to be the 2013 Sox. If you want to keep Byrd in CF and have Aviles play a mix of LF, RF, 3B, SS, and 2B, that's fine too.

 

This team needs to infuse young, high energy kids into the mix, and not just 1.

[ellsburyforMVP]

I'll tell ya how to fix it.... We have roughly $80 million worth of "talent" on the DL..... Get HEALTHY .............. Problem solved

[wyo-sox]

I'll tell ya how to fix it.... We have roughly $80 million worth of "talent" on the DL..... Get HEALTHY .............. Problem solved

 

Other than Ells, who is injured that would give me hope of helping this team when they come back? Youk and Crawford are maybes at best for contrubuting. Lackey and Dice K would probably make us worse if they came back. I do not think Dubront or Bard deserve to loose their spots to those clowns

[iortiz]

Some will point at you if you post something here.

 

Anyway, do what Jung said, oh wait we can not opine.

[Whatsinaname]

Start planning for 2013 and beyond. As much as it hurts, there is no points just making up the numbers and getting blown out of the playoffs.

 

This red sox team is not a world series calibre team, so start planning for one that is. Get as much experience in future players as possible, even if it mess getting lit up every other night.

[iortiz]

Start planning for 2013 and beyond. As much as it hurts, there is no points just making up the numbers and getting blown out of the playoffs.

 

This red sox team is not a world series calibre team, so start planning for one that is. Get as much experience in future players as possible, even if it mess getting lit up every other night.

 

Please!

 

My first move next offseason would be get Andrew Friedman and let him clean the damn house without LL's nose involved.

[iortiz]

Btw get him at whatever price, this team needs a chief in command, badly.

[example1]

So this team is clearly talented and should be winning these games' date=' but they aren't. What's going wrong with this team, and what would you do to fix it? Roster moves? Would you trade some of the highly touted prospects like Bogaerts and Swihart for a true ace like Felix, if available? Would you let it play out and just go with what you've got until the injuries subside, or do you think there isn't enough talent to win this year? And if there isn't, would you mail in the season and try to go ahead and absorb some of the growing pains that guys like Lavarnway, Iglesias, and Middlebrooks are going to face?[/quote']

 

The ace thing... that's what this team needs. I don't know who would be available, but they need to do everything they can to get a true #1 pitcher to anchor the staff. You mentioned Felix, and I just don't think he's available, but if he is that's who you go get.

 

There are a few other pitchers who might be available who are near that status (Cole Hamels, Zack Greinke, Tim Lincecum) but they aren't guys who can automatically be slotted into the #1 slot. The guys in the same class as Felix are unavailable guys like Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay, Clayton Kershaw, and maybe one or two more. Rare finds.

 

I have a hard time believing that Philly wouldn't be open to moving Hamels for, say, Doubront (or a decent offensive piece or two), Boegarts and another prospect. That's a useful MLB pitcher, a top-tier prospect who is compared to Hanley Ramirez, and another prospect, for a pitcher who is likely to demand either top dollar or test the FA market in the offseason. I think that price would be too steep in talent, but it wouldn't hinder the 2012 team and would add some life back to the club. Unlikely, but possible.

 

The Sox need to target a couple of guys who are on the cusp of being that good and go hard for them.

 

At this point it would probably be okay with me to move a guy like Buchholz, Bard, or Doubront (along with a bunch of other talent) to get a guy who is truly elite. When I say "elite" I mean a guy who will give you superb start about half the time and a really good start nearly the rest of the time. Again, think Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay or Felix Hernandez.

 

The offseason discussion was around finding a #5 pitcher, like Roy Oswalt. I think the piece they might have been missing was a true #1 starter. That would slot everyone else in nicely.

 

In recent seasons the Sox have been on the periphery of those types of deals. This year they need to be in the driving seat, not just for 2012 but to set them up right moving forward.

 

Also, I think Bobby V's time in Boston is limited unless they are in contention and looking better by the ASB.

[Brennan]

Please!

 

My first move next offseason would be get Andrew Friedman and let him clean the damn house without LL's nose involved.

 

 

 

One can only dream..

[example1]

Start planning for 2013 and beyond. As much as it hurts, there is no points just making up the numbers and getting blown out of the playoffs.

 

This red sox team is not a world series calibre team, so start planning for one that is. Get as much experience in future players as possible, even if it mess getting lit up every other night.

 

FWIW, at this point last year nobody would have said the Cardinals were a World Series caliber team. The Sox have more talent on their team than most teams, the collection of players just struggles to put it together (plus two of their better offensive weapons and 2 of their 5 supposed SPs are injured).

 

Even if you hate Lackey and Matsuzaka, having those two guys pitching to the middle of their career averages would really bolster this team. Bard and Doubront would be back in the pen, money that now needs to be spent elsewhere is at least producing SOMETHING on the field, etc., The ripple effect is significant, even if we've forgotten that the splash happened in the first place.

[Brennan]

I can't believe there are still so many people that think that this team is gonna just switch it on for the long haul. I think it's getting about that time of year when Pedroia comes out of his little hole and barks at the fanbase and tells us how strong this clown patrol is gonna finish, it's an annual thing now.

[SoxFanForsyth]

The ace thing... that's what this team needs. I don't know who would be available, but they need to do everything they can to get a true #1 pitcher to anchor the staff. You mentioned Felix, and I just don't think he's available, but if he is that's who you go get.

 

There are a few other pitchers who might be available who are near that status (Cole Hamels, Zack Greinke, Tim Lincecum) but they aren't guys who can automatically be slotted into the #1 slot. The guys in the same class as Felix are unavailable guys like Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay, Clayton Kershaw, and maybe one or two more. Rare finds.

 

I have a hard time believing that Philly wouldn't be open to moving Hamels for, say, Doubront (or a decent offensive piece or two), Boegarts and another prospect. That's a useful MLB pitcher, a top-tier prospect who is compared to Hanley Ramirez, and another prospect, for a pitcher who is likely to demand either top dollar or test the FA market in the offseason. I think that price would be too steep in talent, but it wouldn't hinder the 2012 team and would add some life back to the club. Unlikely, but possible.

 

The Sox need to target a couple of guys who are on the cusp of being that good and go hard for them.

 

At this point it would probably be okay with me to move a guy like Buchholz, Bard, or Doubront (along with a bunch of other talent) to get a guy who is truly elite. When I say "elite" I mean a guy who will give you superb start about half the time and a really good start nearly the rest of the time. Again, think Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay or Felix Hernandez.

 

The offseason discussion was around finding a #5 pitcher, like Roy Oswalt. I think the piece they might have been missing was a true #1 starter. That would slot everyone else in nicely.

 

In recent seasons the Sox have been on the periphery of those types of deals. This year they need to be in the driving seat, not just for 2012 but to set them up right moving forward.

 

Also, I think Bobby V's time in Boston is limited unless they are in contention and looking better by the ASB.

 

I absolutely agree that if this team had a true ace, they would be an automatic contender. That's the piece that this team has been missing for a few years, always hoping that Lester would develop into that pitcher. Unfortunately, Lester doesn't have the focus and concentration to be an ace. An ace isn't just about talent.

 

But talking about Philly, they are in dire need of offense. If Youk can get healthy and back to being productive, he may be a piece they would be interested in, especially since he can play 1st or 3rd and Howard isn't a sure thing to come back. If you can deal for Hamels using a deal around Youkilis + 2-3 prospects not named Barnes or Bogaerts, I pull the trigger. Or even if it is Youkilis + Buchholz, I would make that deal assuming we get another piece (bullpen arm) and we obviously sign Hamels to a long term deal.

 

Hamels is a true ace, but likely is priced out of the Phillies comfort level with Halladay and Lee. Buchholz on the other hand would slide in nicely to that rotation and into the NL East. That would allow Lester to slot down to the 2nd slot, Beckett to the 3rd slot, and Doubront/Bard are both very good for a back end.

 

Youk + Buchholz + 1 for Hamels + Bastardo. Give me that deal all day.

[mvp 78]

The biggest need is definitely a true number 1. People on here often call Lester and Beckett 1A and 1B. To me, they are 2's. I'd do whatever it takes to get Felix or a real staff ace like that. Position players seem easier to fill in.

 

Ownership will have to eat some huge contracts (Lackey/CC). They should blow up the team in a manner they should have in the offseason. Bring up the prospects. Move the dead wood. Develop the farm system further, especially with respect to pitching.

 

It's not going to happen. I think this is still a 90-92 win team. However, they don't have the firepower to do anything in the playoffs.

 

The sky isn't falling. There have been way worse teams in my lifetime.

[mvp 78]

I also don't think Hamels is an ace. He'd be 2C in our rotation.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I also don't think Hamels is an ace. He'd be 2C in our rotation.

 

What?? Come on now man. Hamels is an elite pitcher. He's severely underrated by some people for some reason. Past two seasons he's thrown 424 innings to a 2.92 era and an 8.6k/9, 2.2 bb/9.

 

He is Jon Lester without the walks. And if Lester didn't have so many walks, he would be a true ace.

 

In the AL, Hamels would probably be a 225+ ip pitcher per year with around a 3.00-3.15 era. He is an ace in my mind. Gotta remember he gets pulled for pinch hitters every game, so that drops his innings.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Tim Lincecum could be available this year of the Giants fall out of contention. He is another guy I would pay for and sell the farm for - Lincecum and Felix are probably the only two true aces that have any likelihood of being available.

 

They could also go in a different direction and go after Garza. I think he is a guy they can afford, a 5 year, 80mm contract and then also sign Cole Hamels to a 6/120mm.

 

With Ortiz, Dice, Jenks, Youk, etc coming off the books, this team can add some salary and also exceed the LT threshold. I just wonder how long it will take this team to realize that it doesn't matter how much offense you have, pitching wins games.

 

A rotation of Hamels Lester Beckett Garza Buchholz would be insane. Put Bard in the back of the bullpen.

 

This FO has the ability to get this team right back on track. Trade for Garza this season and make a run at it. Then sign Hamels in the offseason and create a dynasty.

[mvp 78]

He's a great #2. He's not the ace of a WS contender. Someone will really overpay for him. Hope it's not the Sox.

 

I grew up with Clemens leading the staff. Pedro was even better after taking the reigns. Even Schill at least had the attitude of an ace after 04. Since then, the staff has desperately needed a stopper like them. Lester/Beckett/Hamels/Cain/etc are great pitchers, but not true aces. None of them are leaders, either with ability or stature.

[FredLynn]

So this team is clearly talented and should be winning these games' date=' but they aren't. What's going wrong with this team, and what would you do to fix it? Roster moves? Would you trade some of the highly touted prospects like Bogaerts and Swihart for a true ace like Felix, if available? Would you let it play out and just go with what you've got until the injuries subside, or do you think there isn't enough talent to win this year? And if there isn't, would you mail in the season and try to go ahead and absorb some of the growing pains that guys like Lavarnway, Iglesias, and Middlebrooks are going to face?[/quote']

 

I don't agree with the premise SFF. I do not think that this team is as talented as a lot of fans have been lead to believe. We have some offensive pieces that are functional: Pedroia ( a bona fide all star), Gonzalez (less than what I expected), Ortiz (old and operating on his last fumes), and....and..who else was there that is a dominant offensive force? We are weak in the OF and at catcher defensively and offensively; our 3B cannot seem to stay healthy and when he is healthy he is a shell of his former self; and our SS is adequate and could be better. Our pitching absolutely and unequivocally sucks. There are NO reliable SP: NONE. In the pen there is Aceves and thats pretty much it.

I don't see the talent.

I think its time to blow up the team and start from scratch, keeping a few useful pieces like Pedroia and Gonzalez and a few others to serve as complimentary players to a whole new look. It will take years. We will need to trade some of the overpaid spoiled bums we have on this team for upper level prospects. Until we do this we will have to endure teams like this one.

[iortiz]

I do not know man, I'm not sure about Tim Lincecum. Hamels or King Felix are welcome.

[FredLynn]

Tim Lincecum could be available this year of the Giants fall out of contention. He is another guy I would pay for and sell the farm for - Lincecum and Felix are probably the only two true aces that have any likelihood of being available.

 

They could also go in a different direction and go after Garza. I think he is a guy they can afford, a 5 year, 80mm contract and then also sign Cole Hamels to a 6/120mm.

 

With Ortiz, Dice, Jenks, Youk, etc coming off the books, this team can add some salary and also exceed the LT threshold. I just wonder how long it will take this team to realize that it doesn't matter how much offense you have, pitching wins games.

 

A rotation of Hamels Lester Beckett Garza Buchholz would be insane. Put Bard in the back of the bullpen.

 

This FO has the ability to get this team right back on track. Trade for Garza this season and make a run at it. Then sign Hamels in the offseason and create a dynasty.

 

I would prefer Lincecum to Hamels; and I don't think Buchholtz has much talent. He had ONE full season for us that was good. The rest of the time, its the deer in the headlights look.

[FredLynn]

I do not know man' date=' I'm not sure about Tim Lincecum. Hamels or King Felix are welcome.[/quote']

 

I watch him pitch out here. He is at least as good as Hamels.

[iortiz]

I watch him pitch out here. He is at least as good as Hamels.

 

I like more Hamels, but that is just me.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I would prefer Lincecum to Hamels; and I don't think Buchholtz has much talent. He had ONE full season for us that was good. The rest of the time' date=' its the deer in the headlights look.[/quote']

 

Lincecum is a FA in 2013. Hamels is a FA this year. And I posted a different comment regarding this team after the initial post, which discussed everything you talked about in the game thread (spoiler alert, I agreed with you, just added some arguments to it as well).

 

Either way, this team needs an ace. Bad. If we can get Felix, I would be more than willing to part ways with anyone not mentioned in the post about calling people up (Iggy, Lavs, WMB). A package around Bogaerts + Barnes would be a good start, and if need be, I would throw Buchholz in there and try to get back a guy like Brandon League. I think a team like the Mariners would love to have a guy like Buchholz if he can prove healthy because he is signed to such a team friendly deal.

[iortiz]

One can only dream..

 

That move would be awsome. The rest would come naturally, but you need to be strong at your top tier first.

[FredLynn]

Lincecum is a FA in 2013. Hamels is a FA this year. And I posted a different comment regarding this team after the initial post, which discussed everything you talked about in the game thread (spoiler alert, I agreed with you, just added some arguments to it as well).

 

Either way, this team needs an ace. Bad. If we can get Felix, I would be more than willing to part ways with anyone not mentioned in the post about calling people up (Iggy, Lavs, WMB). A package around Bogaerts + Barnes would be a good start, and if need be, I would throw Buchholz in there and try to get back a guy like Brandon League. I think a team like the Mariners would love to have a guy like Buchholz if he can prove healthy because he is signed to such a team friendly deal.

 

I split from the game thread. Its hard to waste time watching such garbage. You guys here on the thread are all great, but if I am here on the game thread that means I have to watch the game too. Besides, I had to plant the vegetables in the soil today. Better things to do than watch this disgusting team, in other words.

I have no problem trading our offensive pieces for good or great pitching. And yes, we need a reliable ace. It should be clear the neither Beckett nor Lester is an ace; they are complimentary #3 SP IMO. Buchholtz has to prove he can still pitch. He has the rest of this year to do it because this is a lost year anyway and we can afford to let him wallow in it for a while.

The team is a mess. And its really NOT very talented, at least not talented enough. Time to blow it up.

[jacksonianmarch]

I absolutely agree that if this team had a true ace, they would be an automatic contender. That's the piece that this team has been missing for a few years, always hoping that Lester would develop into that pitcher. Unfortunately, Lester doesn't have the focus and concentration to be an ace. An ace isn't just about talent.

 

But talking about Philly, they are in dire need of offense. If Youk can get healthy and back to being productive, he may be a piece they would be interested in, especially since he can play 1st or 3rd and Howard isn't a sure thing to come back. If you can deal for Hamels using a deal around Youkilis + 2-3 prospects not named Barnes or Bogaerts, I pull the trigger. Or even if it is Youkilis + Buchholz, I would make that deal assuming we get another piece (bullpen arm) and we obviously sign Hamels to a long term deal.

 

Hamels is a true ace, but likely is priced out of the Phillies comfort level with Halladay and Lee. Buchholz on the other hand would slide in nicely to that rotation and into the NL East. That would allow Lester to slot down to the 2nd slot, Beckett to the 3rd slot, and Doubront/Bard are both very good for a back end.

 

Youk + Buchholz + 1 for Hamels + Bastardo. Give me that deal all day.

 

So you want to send an injured and punchless Youkilis and a guy in Buchholz who has sucked in his return from a spinal fracture for a lockdown lefty specialist and one of the best pitchers in the game? That +1 better be a plus 3.

[mvp 78]

Buchholz