Enter: Will Middlebrooks

[a700hitter]

Thats not one of the questions' date=' but if it were, I would guess that you are correct. And I am not sure they would be wrong either.[/quote']Raising the white flag might not be the wrong decision, but it is a step that I don't think the FO is willing to take in May.

[kapsis21]

The poll was conveniently posted while Youk is on the DL and Middlebrooks is smoking everything in sight. Not a gay reference.

 

Having said that, I say Youk to the block.

 

Phillies might have an arm we could use, they sure do need offense. but Youk has to get healthy first, no value otherwise..

[redsoxrules]

It's a significant downgrade at 3B defensively to put Middlebrooks there over Youk. All scouting reports on Middlebrooks is that he is a very good defensive 3B.

 

Keith Law said that last year, Middlebrooks was ready defensively at 3B. It was his bat they were waiting on.

 

We gotta think - This team's biggest struggles stem from the pitching. This team can't afford to just give up outs by using players out of position and letting a poor defensive player play over a very solid defensive player.

This pitching is bad enough as is. You have to help this pitching by putting out good defense, not sacrificing defense for offense.

 

The outfield defense has been atrocious , Middlebrooks would NOT be worse than whats out there now

[SoxFanForsyth]

The outfield defense has been atrocious ' date=' Middlebrooks would NOT be worse than whats out there now[/quote']

 

So you want to sacrifice defense at 3B for a wash in defense in LF? How does that help?

[redsoxrules]

So you want to sacrifice defense at 3B for a wash in defense in LF? How does that help?

 

There's no issue with defense at 3B compared to the outfield .

[ORS]

So you want to sacrifice defense at 3B for a wash in defense in LF? How does that help?

By getting McDonald or Byrd out of the lineup. I know that you think it is important to support the struggling pitchers with good defense as much as possible, but that doesn't mean you can totally ignore what happens on the offensive side of the equation. These defensive considerations aren't being done in a vacuum with only one goal, improving the defense. All of this is being considered for the significant upgrade in offensive production out of the LF position that WMB could potentially provide.

[KCBRUIN]

Regardless of where he plays he still needs a real jersey number so I can buy a new road jersey.

[SoxFanForsyth]

By getting McDonald or Byrd out of the lineup. I know that you think it is important to support the struggling pitchers with good defense as much as possible' date=' but that doesn't mean you can totally ignore what happens on the offensive side of the equation. These defensive considerations aren't being done in a vacuum with only one goal, improving the defense. All of this is being considered for the significant upgrade in offensive production out of the LF position that WMB could potentially provide.[/quote']

 

But the assumption is being made that Middlebrooks can provide defense close to or better than these guys. I understand that you want his bat in the lineup but at the sacrifice of defense in CF if you replace Byrd, who is the best defensive OF we have righ now? Or you replace DMac, who only plays vs LHP? And then what do you do w him when we are facing RHP?

 

It just doesn't seem like a fit to me. His defense wouldn't be an upgrade, that we can agree on. You're not going to sit Ross, Sweeney is hammering the ball, and Byrd actually gives the team above average defense in CF. Are we talking about platooning Ross and Sweeney in RF and using WMB in LF?

 

I think you have to find somewhere for Youk to play, not WMB. He's a very good defensive 3B. Youkilis is a poor fielding 3b and WMB is tearing the cover off the ball. I think we are going about this the wrong way. I really think you can't just give Youk 3b back when you've got a kid who will probably be hitting .310 with an OPS over .900 once he's back, and is the future. I've seen way too many people turn singles into doubles off that monster, I don't think you can just throw a warm body out there for his bat and expect this team to win, especially in a field where hitters consistently take aim at LF.

 

And again, the last thing you want to do is move this kid anywhere. He's found a comfort zone, and players often take their defense into their at bats. You can't ruin this confidence by sticking him in a place where he has no experience.

[mvp 78]

Until Youk shows he can hit, WMB should be a lock for 3b. Why sacrifice the future just to increase Youk's marginal trade value?

[NativeBostonian]

How about they trade Youk to the Reds? Bring Bronson Arroyo back to Boston? Cincinnati is Youks home town. So he should be happy to play for his home town.

[kapsis21]

How about they trade Youk to the Reds? Bring Bronson Arroyo back to Boston? Cincinnati is Youks home town. So he should be happy to play for his home town.

 

Bronson is too valuable for them to trade and they have Scott Rolen manning 3rd base GG defense

[jung]

I don't know why we would think anybody is going to trade pitching that we would want for Youk. Pitching is just to valuable and for the rest of his career teams will be concerned with how much Youk can stay on the field. Never mind the concerns teams would have for whether Youk will hit or not....even if he can hit the injury thing will work against his value.

 

Who knows what this back thing actually is for one thing. Look what "back issues" did to Oswalt's viability and the number of teams that would either give him the money he wanted or the job he wanted.

[d-money]

Everyone is jumping the gun on this kid.Can we wait a little more to see how he does?Now everyone wants to get rid of Youks.

[jung]

I don't think we should even be looking to trade Youk as I have said in several posts here. Sure in reality everybody is available to consider for the right deal but under the circumstances Youk is more valuable to the Sox than anybody they would likely get in a trade. There are simply to many questions that are open about Youk at this point and those questions would all be considered as risk elements to any team considering him

a) Last Youk was playing he was not really hitting

He is injured, has progressively been playing fewer games each season and the injury he is out with now is his back...an injury which generally is perceived as carrying a pretty high risk factor

c) He is something of a defensive liability at 3rd base so teams would likely be looking at him as a DH or possibly 1st baseman

d) as far as I know Youk has not had a history of weight training which he apparently did extensively this off season. While he came out of that "stronger" I guess, it is not necessarily a positive for a baseball player and might in fact be a negative in Youk's case.

[a700hitter]

Until Youk shows he can hit' date=' WMB should be a lock for 3b. Why sacrifice the future just to increase Youk's marginal trade value?[/quote']How can he prove that he can hit unless he plays?

[SoxFanForsyth]

I don't think we should even be looking to trade Youk as I have said in several posts here. Sure in reality everybody is available to consider for the right deal but under the circumstances Youk is more valuable to the Sox than anybody they would likely get in a trade. There are simply to many questions that are open about Youk at this point and those questions would all be considered as risk elements to any team considering him

a) Last Youk was playing he was not really hitting

He is injured, has progressively been playing fewer games each season and the injury he is out with now is his back...an injury which generally is perceived as carrying a pretty high risk factor

c) He is something of a defensive liability at 3rd base so teams would likely be looking at him as a DH or possibly 1st baseman

d) as far as I know Youk has not had a history of weight training which he apparently did extensively this off season. While he came out of that "stronger" I guess, it is not necessarily a positive for a baseball player and might in fact be a negative in Youk's case.

 

I still think there is a great situation to send Youkilis to Chicago for Thornton for the following reasons (for all discussion purposes, contracts will not be prorated):

 

1. Youk + $3mm + a mid-ceiling prospect to Chicago. Youkilis has a $11.5mm contract this year. Eat $3mm of his salary, and it's down to $8.5mm.

 

2. Thornton is under contract for two years at $5.5mm each year, at a total of $11mm.

 

3. By taking on Youk's $8.5mm this year, and getting rid of Thornton's $5.5mm next year, they are essentially riding themselves of $2.5mm, and in the process, are getting out of the deal 1 year sooner.

 

4. The White Sox are a rebuilding team. They are a team who would love to free up money to spend on the draft, international FA, etc. If they can relieve themselves of Thornton's salary next year, that's one step closer to rebuilding their franchise into a young organization.

 

So, in essence, the White Sox aren't really trading "for Youkilis". What's essentially happening is that the White Sox are getting a young prospect, and are taking a discount on Thornton's contract and getting 3/4 of a year of Youkilis. I can absolutely see that happening, and I can see the back of this bullpen being helped out tremendously by a swing and miss guy like Thornton.

[jung]

Have a prospect in mind to package with Youk?

 

Do you think that Bard is going to stay in the rotation for the entire year?

 

I have really wanted the Sox to keep Bard going as a part of the rotation once they started down that path. However I always felt that they would insert Bard into the position in the bull pen that I think you are talking about here once dice came back.

 

I think the biggest hole in the Sox pen at this point is a swing and miss guy that can come in and get the Sox out of jams...the traditional fireman's role which I think is a more difficult spot than closing in the sense that you have to get between 1-3 outs without giving up anything....no hits....no walks...no nothing.

 

Padilla did it the other night but he is a real crapshoot in that role....any pitcher is in reality but Padilla probably has more of a chance of failing than he does of succeeding.

 

Anyway do you still want to go that route presuming the Sox intend moving Bard into that role when dice returns and do you have a prospect in mind to mate to Youk.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Have a prospect in mind to package with Youk?

 

Do you think that Bard is going to stay in the rotation for the entire year?

 

I have really wanted the Sox to keep Bard going as a part of the rotation once they started down that path. However I always felt that they would insert Bard into the position in the bull pen that I think you are talking about here once dice came back.

 

I think the biggest hole in the Sox pen at this point is a swing and miss guy that can come in and get the Sox out of jams...the traditional fireman's role which I think is a more difficult spot than closing in the sense that you have to get between 1-3 outs without giving up anything....no hits....no walks...no nothing.

 

Padilla did it the other night but he is a real crapshoot in that role....any pitcher is in reality but Padilla probably has more of a chance of failing than he does of succeeding.

 

Anyway do you still want to go that route presuming the Sox intend moving Bard into that role when dice returns and do you have a prospect in mind to mate to Youk.

 

Well I think they will need to limit Bard's innings, that's for sure. So I think that if you go with Bard for about 10-12 starts this year and then the bullpen for a half of a year, you're good to go. You get Bard 12 starts and around 75-80 IP, and then another 40 out of the bullpen, and you are getting that gradual innings increase that you want so you don't blow out an arm.

 

As far as the package, likely a younger position player. Maybe a guy like Che Hsuan Lin would be the guy to go over along with Youkilis.

[SoxSport]

Youks' injury forced the issue with Middlebrooks. They had to bring him up. Either that or play Aviles at 3B and bring up Iggy. The way this front office works, they are looking for an excuse to send Middlebrooks down when Youks comes off the DL. So he is going to have to hit like hell for a couple of weeks--like he is doing now, and force the issue. It's tough because Youks has little trade value now. He's injury fragile and nobody wants him to play 3B. His value is at DH/1B if he's healthy. But he needs at bats to shown he is healthy. So it's a dilemma. I think there's a good chance he's still a helluva player, but I think they wrecked him in Boston changing positions again on him.

[mvp 78]

If WMB gets sent down when Youk comesback, he better start hitting or the "Youks" will just be "boooos."

 

A700, I don't see much of a return for Youk. I don't have any reason to play him more than part time when he comes back.

[a700hitter]

If WMB gets sent down when Youk comesback, he better start hitting or the "Youks" will just be "boooos."

 

A700, I don't see much of a return for Youk. I don't have any reason to play him more than part time when he comes back.

A lot of people agree with you. Do you think Bobby V will leave Youkilis on the bench when he comes off the DL? I don't.

[d-money]

Middlebrooks has had a nice little stretch here but i am still weary of his plate discipline.

[jung]

Youk's return is going to create an interesting dilemma for all of them. I suspect the only way WMB will delay Youk's return to the lineup would be if he is still hitting at a torrid pace. However I think that will just be V waiting for a convenient moment as in the minute WMB goes 1/4 for example.

 

However even at the point of WMB coming down to earth, if he is still hitting pretty good I don't expect Youk to even be greeted by YOUKKKKKKKsssss. I expect the BOOOO Brigade to get cranked up pretty quickly. Not that the BOOOO Brigade should decide the lineup but what does V do if Youk is still not hitting and V just took one of the few guys that was hitting out of the lineup?

 

That is going to be a rough spot and in truth there is no reason to suspect that Youk will just come off the DL lacing the ball. At best I would think that he might start a gradual return. That is unless between now and then Youk figures out why he is not seeing those low, outside cutters and sliders from RF pitchers.

 

Everything falls apart for a hitter when suddenly there is a location for certain types of pitches where he is just meat. He knows it better than anybody. So since he is sure that once the pitcher gets two strikes on him he will just drop that pitch on him, he gets anxious and starts swinging at pitches early in counts trying to get a hit before the pitcher gets two strikes.

 

At that point, he is dead and right now or at least before he got hurt, Youk was dead to RH pitchers, a complete reversal of his early years as a hitter when he was at times more effective against RHer's than LHer's.

 

In fact, maybe if V uses his head, assuming that V can't find a way to have both WMB and Youk in the lineup at the same time, it might make sense to start Youk back first against LHer's so that he is not confronted with the whole RH pitcher issue as soon as he comes off the DL.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Middlebrooks has had a nice little stretch here but i am still weary of his plate discipline.

 

He's been working into a lot of hitter counts, and he's worked back from 0-2 and 1-2 into 2-2 and 3-2 counts. It's just something that you learn on the go in the big leagues.

[SoxSport]

Middlebrooks is a breathe of fresh air right now---the spark a lot of us were hoping for from Iggy or Lav.

 

It shows how unpredictable the kids can be, and should be a lesson for the front office. You got to give these kids a chance--they can put some life into a team.

[SoxSport]

In fact' date=' maybe if V uses his head, assuming that V can't find a way to have both WMB and Youk in the lineup at the same time, it might make sense to start Youk back first against LHer's so that he is not confronted with the whole RH pitcher issue as soon as he comes off the DL.[/quote']

 

Do you think that V will do whatever the FO tells him to do about Youk? I like to think V is pulling the strings on the field and to an extent with personnel. But I have my doubts.

 

I think maybe Youk has to play some 3B, DH and 1B to get his hitting stroke back.

[SoxSport]

Middlebrooks has had a nice little stretch here but i am still weary of his plate discipline.

 

you mean leery?

[NZSox]

WMB for Predisdent.

[yeszir]

Anyone want to bet that Youk ends up with significantly better stats than Middlebrooks?

[jacksonianmarch]

Anyone want to bet that Youk ends up with significantly better stats than Middlebrooks?

 

I bet he will. WMB is hot right now. The true test is when pitchers adjust to him